Just remember that while the LBS isn't the cause... there is a reality to how the WAS sees things...
We often say, if it stings... we should look at it... IOW, if the WAS says the LBS was never around... take a good hard look... could you have done better...? And then make a point of doing better in that area, if there is validity... .
That is where I get stuck sometimes. In our R every time she would say she was thinking of leaving I would cave and take all the blame it of fear. Then she would say she never really meant it. So, it's hard for me to distinguish what the legitimate problems are. Trying to pinpoint exactly what she was unhappy with is a difficult task. Keep in mind that, multiple times, I offered to leave and let her have everything (except we would split the kids) while I paid for EVERYTHING. I told her she wouldn't have to work at all. I just want her to be happy. Every time she turned it down and told me she was happy. Now she says that I basically pushed her out of the house and she's been unhappy for years. That being said, I know I did something, imnjust not sure what.
I suppose this is one of the reasons that we need to make changes for ourselves and not for our S. What I'm trying to do is identify things about me that I wish I would have done different in the marriage. I keep in mind some of her complaints and decide if that is the man I really want to be. Then I work on those.
Another thing I am doing is taking the complaints that I am not sure are valid and deciding if that's something I can live with. Like MDW said in DR, 60% of things married people fight about are unresolved throughout the marriage. So, what little annoyances about her am I willing to overlook? Is changing what annoy her about me really a change that goes against who I am as a person of my set of standards? Once I answer these questions I decide if that is something I should change or not. But, does that fall inline with making changes for her? Should I even bother at this point. I'm trying to be positive and I believe in the self-fulfilling prophecy. So, I want to be ready when/if she comes back.
Is that sort of positive attitude healthy though? Am I setting myself up for a major letdown if it doesn't happen? Is there a difference between having hope and expecting (and acting as-if) a certain outcome to come to pass?
I question this because I've had a hard time with all of this. It's been almost two months and I'm finally at the point where I can actually throw myself fully into DB'ing rather than being so emotional that I can barely function.
Feedback is an amazing thing and I think it should be respected and learned in the same way as a martial art...
I have been witness to very few people who are black belts in receiving feedback... I have done it myself and I'm no black belt...
Imagine standing in a room full of people, some you know, some you don't and for 3 minutes... a full 180 seconds... you stand in front of people who give you feedback... some feels great other feedback... not so much... and it is your job to process these second by second comments and make no comment on it but simply, internally weigh the validity of the feedback and integrate it in how you will change... immediately... on that feedback...
I don't know if I came anywhere close to what it's like, but it's... well... wow... it's quite an experience...
The point is, feedback is feedback and generally, it is reflective of only one, very specific and immediate and short moment... life is fluid and we change every moment as others around us change every moment as our environment changes every moment...
When your W says something to you, it is in the moment... based on you... based on her... based on the environment...
It is your job, if you choose to accept it... to accept and integrate that feedback as you see fit... and then let it go...
When your W says to you later, "I didn't mean it..." Unfortunately and the brutal honest truth here is, she's lying...
She DID mean it...
But... what she's really saying is, "I meant what I said when I said it, but I am fluid and I change and you change and the environment changes and I no longer feel that and therefore I feel I need to apologize in a way that I best can, by saying I didn't mean it..."
And that in itself is feedback... of the moment... and it is your job to accept it, process the validity of it (and it is valid, in that moment) and then... let it go...
I hope that made sense and there is nothing easy about it... even for the pros...
It's called "Being in the here and now"...
You get billions of moments to live... but the ONLY moment that counts is the one you are in... RIGHT NOW...
When we think back and question and process the past... we are no longer living this moment... we have deprived ourselves of a moment that we should be truly appreciating... because this moment will be gone... NOW...
It is good to reflect on the past and I'll just tie this into the above post on feedback and living in the here and now... the past IS feedback... and in this moment, you are choosing to reflect... and that... is good...
It's the processing that is getting you stuck...
This is where many people (not just LBSs but people in general) get stuck... they second guess what they did... the changes they made... the belief systems they are currently living with... in some circles, we call that "Harry"... a creature (perhaps a worm) living in our minds... constantly telling us about our failures and our inabilities and reminding us of our fears and our losses...
We can't kill Harry... we just need to know that Harry exists and is... speaking to us... and we can choose Harry's feedback and it's validity and act accordingly... just like we can with other people...
Harry... is YOU... and Harry is ALWAYS harsh... and Harry is always selfish... because Harry likes when we don't change... Harry doesn't like change...
So that's just another way of saying, the LBS must do the work on themselves... and that's called a course correction... we have neither failed nor succeeded in our past... the past is simply feedback and we course correct...
Again, very abstract stuff, but again... I hope that helps you to choose how you proceed... with YOU as the focus and your betterment as the goal and no matter how much better you are, everything else will simply be as it will...
and that my friend, is self fulfilling prophecy...
Many of us have heard it this way...
Be the change you wish to see in the world... because when we are better... we attract better... when we love... we get love... when we respect... we get respect...
It is all true... it is all real... even when it doesn't seem that way... if something is not right... it's because it's what we've given out... and it's being reflected back at us...
I ran into my wife's brother at the store today.... I had my headphones on and felt a tap on my shoulder, turned around and it was him. I was shocked. From what I've been told everyone in her family hates me. He said he didn't have a problem with me at all. I was very upbeat and positive with him. I made small talk and walked out with him to his car.
What a damper on my day. God, I miss my wife. I'll admit it, I broke down and cried on the way home. This is where I usually get emotionally stuck. I start having imaginary conversations in my head with her. I wonder why all of this is happening. I start feeling hopeless.
I'm not going to do it this time. Yes, I'm miserable right now, but all I can do is try to look at all the positives that are happening in my world. I'm not going to deny my feelings, but that is all they are, feelings. They pass. I'm not a mindreader or a fortune teller, so I have no idea what is going on in her head or what is going to happen. I've got to stop this cycle right here, right now. Easier said than done, but I can do it. Thanks for letting me vent.
I started reading DR again, my head was in such a fog and I was looking for a quick fix that I didn't fully comprehend everything.
One thing that I am having trouble with is looking for positive signs that what I am doing is working. I have never been good at accepting compliments or looking at positive signs. I've always looked at the big picture. That's one thing I am working hard on. So, how do I know?
Here's an example: Yesterday was my day to get the kids from my spouse. So the night before I text messages their mom and asked them a good time to meet up and swap the kids. She said she was having a slumber party for my daughter and asked if it could be around 11. I told her that we could make it noon. I then asked if out neighbor's kid was spending the night, which she was. I then asked my spouse if maybe she could send the kids home with my neighbor as it would me out a lot. She said she would ask.
9:45 the next morning she said that she and the kids were on their way. I figured that she was taking the neighbor's kid home so she would just drop the kids off. She did not take the neighbor's kid home. So she did this of her own free will. She came in the house and I showed the kids their new room that I painted and I added rope light to their bed so it glows. They were excited and my spouse told me how good it looked. She abruptly took off as if she was In a hurry. she always said I pointed out everything negative she does, so I've been trying to find positive things to point out. So I sent her a text that said' " thank you very, very much for bringing the kids over. I really appreciate it". A few minutes later she replied with' " welcome:)". Generally her responses are short (such a "K" "thx") if at all. I think the smiley face may indicate that my thank you may have made her feel good. I'm worried about reading too much into anything.
I keep my communication to a minimum, but I do send her an email or call her if it's important. She generally never replies to either.
What would be some other positive signs to look for?
In all fairness David, I think for many LBS... the very FIRST positive sign I would look for is that the mixed messages... STOP...
I'll submit that the only real place to effectively observe and monitor change (whether good OR bad) is to have a stable base to gauge from...
Because for me and others, much of what seems to happen is the tail chases the dog (or as MWD say, we "go down cheeseless tunnels")...
If you do a 180, such as your commenting (and being sincere about it, not having it be a tactic) how you appreciate her help... if she responds positive (and I would say she did, in your case) and the next time or the third time it's negative... such as no response or your typical short "k" and "thx"... then either the mixed messages remain or it's not a stable gauge...
The reason I'm a little cautious with offering support right now is because for the past 18 mo's, (lovely 20/20 hindsight) I've had the "come here / go away" condition... the "come here" portion really being my W being nice to me because she wants something, as in wanting to be "friends" or wanting a baby sitter for the kids, or some such... I just didn't see it at the time...
Anyhow, look for that stable base before you start looking for change... IMHO...
I'm already assuming that any contact she initiates with me because she want something.
She called me his morning crying because she has some problems at work that may cause her to be fired. I listened and was sympathetic. I asked her to let me know what happens. Then I sent her an encouraging email telling her to keep her chin up and it will all be okay.
Again, she probably wants something, so I'm not getting my hopes up. I am curious why she called me. I thought it was due to a question I text her earlier about my D and daycare. She didn't mention it on the phone and I had to ask her if she got it.
Here's a good test for me. I'm going to proceed as usual. I'm not going to ask her how it went...I'll let her tell me if she wants. I'm not going to initiate any more contact than what I usually do. I'll be positive and encouraging if she contacts me, but I'm not going to read into anything. Also, I am not going to get stuck in asking why or hoping this is my break. It is what it is...nothing more.
Well, she said she would update me on the situation at work and I haven't heard a thing from her tonight... so, she probably did not get fired. I have to admit I was disappointed from not hearing from her, but that's par for the course.
Kaffe Diem,
Thanks for the advice on how to gauge W's response. That makes sense. I'm hoping she softening a bit. It's hard to tell. Sometimes this doesn't even feel like reality. I'm trying to stay consistent with my 180 and the changes I have made. Today, I did everything that I said I was going to do as far as not acting any different than normal. She works at the daycare my kids go to. I normally have the boss go and get the kids rather than me going and get them. At first it was because it was too hard for me to see her. It brought me down. Now, it's just easier and I'm trying to give her as much space as possible. If I make her unhappy, like she says that I do, then seeing me everyday that I have the kids must suck. Not that I'm saying that in a woe-is-me type of way. I've made mistakes, but I also know that I was a good husband. I am not the total source of her unhappiness. Sadly, her world is starting to collapse in itself. I want to jump in and save her, but that is what I have always done.
I'm hoping by keeping the same amount of distance that I had before the phone call will create a bit of mystery around me. Normally, I'm very sympathetic and I would call her to make sure everything is okay. I could analyze this to death. I keep going over what I said and text messaged her. I think I did good, but I've analyzed it to the point that I'm worried she took it wrong. Fortunately, that's not my problem.
I am proud of myself for the way I responded to not hearing from her. Normally it would ruin my night. This time, I'll admit it, I cried, but I snapped out of it quickly and then went and played board games with the kids. That made me feel so much better and now I'm in a great mood.
Looking forward to any advice, corrections or suggestions anyone has for me. Thanks for everything.
Speaking of gauges... newbies often gauge success by saving their M's... as we travel this road, we come to realize... to really understand that the real success is saving ourselves and if our M gets better as a result, bonus...
The point is, you appear in your posts for the most part that you're fairly emotionally stable through this. Of course we all have our ups and downs, but by staying in your head and out of your emotions at this point in your journey, you are well on your way to being responsibly detached from the roller coaster...
So if I may offer a suggestion, it would be this:
+ take a moment to truly remember and understand who you were when you got M and who you truly are, at your core...
+ then, in everything you do, including interactions with your W, BE THAT PERSON...
become a stable base... and you should attract to yourself, stability... and with that in hand, you don't need to analyze your W because you will be true to you, which is the goal, and she was attracted to you once... it stands to reason... she would be a fool to not be attracted to you if you are YOU AND BETTER... and if she is a fool, so be it...
She called me his morning crying because she has some problems at work that may cause her to be fired. I listened and was sympathetic. I asked her to let me know what happens. Then I sent her an encouraging email telling her to keep her chin up and it will all be okay.
Here's a goal you can work on. Don't over-do when she seems to be reaching out....or just being nice. You did what was right...."listened and was sympathetic"....then you told her to "let me know what happens". That was an appropriate way to end the call. But then you had to go and add more......and sent her an "encouraging email". Truth is, you hoped she would respond and would open the lines better. That was going too far. That was pursuing. Why couldn't you just leave it to what you said in the phone conversation?
Try working on no over-kill, okay?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
