Sorry for the digression of the forgiveness piece but it seemed like a good time for it since we were talking about it and
when I first heard that story, read out loud with feeling, I was moved.
I think a Seed was planted. And I now believe that's how forgiveness happens, a seed gets planted and we work on nourishing that til ti bears fruit.
Keep us posted!
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
It was nice seeing you all have a discussion about forgiveness. I could just sit back and see the various opinions and valuable points you each made.
I know I have to forgive for me. Every time I think I'm over something, it will come to rear it's ugly head in one form or another. I think the only thing that can kill that is time.
When SIL and I got into a HUGE fight several years ago, it took me a long time to retell the event to someone without getting angry and emotional. It really wasn't until a year or two after the incident that I was able to talk about it without becoming upset. I'm emotionally over it, but it took a while.
I think it's just going to take a while.
I moved all my big stuff to my apt on Saturday. Sunday I was very ill with allergies due to being outside so much. Tonight I'm staying at the house because we have MC. Sister is coming over tomorrow to check it out. She's moving all of her stuff on Friday.
H tried convincing me to stay in the house until the 11th hour. I kept telling him that we are doing a great job, and I do really want to move home, just not right now. I told him it's like if I was told I had to go live with his parents. I can tolerate them for short amounts of time and be really civil with them on a surface level, but the daily grind would be too much for me to be nice to them all the time.
I think I would routinely rip him a new one if I were to stay in the house right now. And we've worked too hard to mess that up.
He said that he's upset that after 8 years one "lapse in judgement" (remember me using this line?) is causing me to want to move out. I explained to him that it's like if he said, "I don't know why you're afraid of me. I only stabbed you once."
Um, yeah, but you F-ING STABBED ME.
One will be nervous for a while after.
It's all still too fresh. What happens when baby #2 comes? What happens when he has another depressive episode (and now that he's had one, the likelihood of him having another skyrockets)? What if I get sick with cancer or something? Will he leave me in my darkest hour then too?
There's too much unknown for me right now.
Oh, and yes, 25, he used to tell me ILY all the time. He's still not said it yet, but he is now kissing me before I leave for the day when I'm with him. He still has not initiated ML.
Work has been insane. By some blatant defiant act, another child ended up in my classroom (which puts me over my cap). Another one has gone off his medication and is literally climbing every piece of furniture and using it for base jumping. One is leaving me because I've done my job and he can rejoin his non-aggressive peers.
I was so exhausted when I came back from nursing D at lunch, and when I walked in the office, my secretary said, "Oh, those are for you"
There was a small vase of beautiful fall flowers with a note that said, "Happy Anniversary! Hope this brightens up your day!"
It had no name on it.
I texted H. He sent them to me. Said he thought it would be more of a surprise if I got them a week before our anniversary. He apologized for forgetting to put his name on it.
Awww May, your story brought tears to my eyes. That really was a loving gesture on his part.
Your job sounds....stressful. I am not really a fan of children though. I know it sounds hypocritical because I have kids of my own, it just means I could not be a daycare provider or bus driver or anything like that. I applaud you for all your hard work.
The advice that you have been given is wonderful.
"Everyone you meet has baggage. Find someone who loves you enough to help you unpack." ¤Formerly DelinquentGurl¤
So the "Universe" at work definitely tossing some wrenches your way, with an unpinned grenade rolled onto your desk to boot. Nice touch...
And your h sends flowers early -kinda cool by the way--(not putting the name is just silly sloppy, I would not read a thing into that)
BUT did the card say "ILY" in it? Does he know you value those words? Have you mentioned it in a way that isn't...angry or needy but observational?
it's an odd thing to leave out considering he wants you to move in and can't believe you won't, ALL due to "one lapse in judgement"....wow-gotta write that one down. When h moved to Stanford (300 miles away) I thought he was semi-delusional to tell the girls he hadn't left us, he was just "working up the road."
See, your h's lapse sure was a LONG one.
The single upside I see is that I think it may rule out an OW/PA...okay not "rule out" conclusively, but it supports the idea that in his mind there was no crossing the line and
his "lapse in judgement" is about...what? Moving out? Not wanting an already pregnant w to be his w or to have the baby? I wonder what HE thinks his lapse was?
May, if you bring up the idea of other children down the road, right now, I think you are shooting yourself in the foot.
See how he is when you live together FIRST...before you even talk about it. Sorry to say this May, really, but if ANY couple ought to space their kids apart, isn't it you guys?
SO want HIM to initiate all the discussion about that and all the efforts in that direction.
He may want another chance to prove himself and we can pray for that, but let it come from him.
IF he changes a lot in the c's office and over time really really gets it and cures his depression and all that jazz, BUT UNTIL THEN....
I'd fear "laspe" #2...a lot. And if I know you, (which I don't, so I'm obviously projecting) ....
I think a 2nd pregnancy, coupled with another lapse on his end, would have dire and direct consequences to the m. IS that at all accurate?
So please let's take our time on that.
And without making him wear a hairshirt, I'd try hard to get thru to him that the "ONE lapse" of his sure lasted a shitload of time and was a bit more than a lapse in judgment. It involved many actions committed, acts omitted and spoken words that hurt, unspoken words that remain unspoken and hurt...
A lapse in judgement is a careless act/omission to act, not a cruel or deliberately neglectful series of events and acts.
******** May I want to support your forgiveness efforts as much as possible- so I'm loathe to sit here and remind you of all that.
And I apologize if I'm wrong to do it and I might be.
But something tells me that you need to have clarity with him when the review of this ordeal is done.
He can't/won't get it all and doesn't have to, and I'm not into saying "details PLEASE!!!" at all.
But HE needs to be aware that the EFFECTS of whatever he wants to call his behavior, are what matter the most. (And protecting against another round)
No mere "lapse in judgement" would have hurt you or the m, or His self esteem or yours, as much as a series of actions/words and abandonment, did.
He has to see it for real. before he (or YOU) can know he'll refrain from it again. Does he understand that you need this?
Soooo, now, back to forgiving!!
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
May, everything everyone here said ... AND ... (and I hope I don't get slammed for this as I often do by recommending this book) I might just suggest Pia Mellody's Facing Love Addiction. Don't be put off by the title - it's really good. And it helped me get a handle on my exBF's love avoidance and my own love addiction. I don't think you're either, necessarily. But they tend to go hand-in-hand; however, your H sounds a little like an avoider - and I think the book can help you gain some insight - into him - for your benefit. I'm in IC now with someone who gets this and has helped me unravel so much of what happened in the past three years, with that love-avoidant theme running throughout our R - it helped me take stuff with exBF much less personally and realize how unsafe he feels and how fear motivates him a lot - how he's kept me at arm's length, and also when I got out of reach, he freaked out, though when I got too close, he freaked out. If any of that sounds familiar, you might want to look at it - not as an end all be all - and even just to review that one section to see if it's at all helpful. Another thing my IC said in regard to custody and our R is "exBF doesn't seem to know what he wants," and just hearing that made me go OH! B/c I think it's true - I got so caught up in everything he said - one day it was this, the next that, that realizing he really often doesn't know and is in a bit of a fog, helped me back off enough to not rely on his every word. He just might not know!
Oh, and those comments your H likes to make about your weight or whatever- that sounded very familiar to me - for me, it was sarcasm from H and our old MC pointed out that it was indicative of exBF's extreme discomfort whenever we got too close ... which is what would happen when the subtle digs and sarcasm would start coming up. (Part of love avoidance)
its all good. keep up the good work. definitely moving in the right direction.
expect reactions after you're out, i'm expecting some back sliding or blow back from him. he may lash out.
and expect that you yourself will have feelings of not wanting to move back, i think you'll hit points where you'll like your new place more than the thought of moving home, and the grass will be greener for a while.
forget the what-ifs, they're only mind-games you play on yourself. you can what-if yourself straight into a divorce just as easily as what-if'ing yourself into a family of 14 or having a hairy back. its all meaningless unless your goal it to examine your fears. but it has nothing to do with reality, and you cant predict his reactions to any certainty.
his comment of one lapse of judgement does throw up a red flag for me.
and i do not think he had an A, never did and think less so after his comment.
but my red flag says he and you still see what happened completely differently. while its expected that perspectives are different, your perspectives are very different. it may have to do with time frames - he's looking at a very specific act, while you're looking at an entire season. i think it'll be helpful to agree on whats the issue, so you can work on it.
you may want to discuss this with your MC, i predict that reality is somewhere in between.
the flowers were great. and why need a name? who else are you expecting anniversary flowers from?
and i've said it before, and i'll keep saying it until you agree with me, but i think his not saying ILY or initiating ML is that he's giving you space, he's trying not to pressure. he's walking on eggshells. he's basically following DB for WASs.
"In a ham and eggs breakfast, the hen is involved, but the pig is committed".
those are good points May. I am a stickler for the ILY if he said it before and he's the WAS not you....
seems he's putting himself in the position of needing reassurance. I only get that as it relates to your not moving in yet, but not on "the whole."
and yeah, the "lapse" thing throws me. (Way more than the ILY's)
But you're still making such progress that I see a lot of hope for you guys.
Keep on keeping on!
and how is that baby girl??
Oh, I'm an aunt again, and will see my newest niece next week. Can't wait.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
is he still? i think the dynamic has changed and now she's the WAS.
had you said "he was the WAS now you're the WAS..." i would agree without reservation, and think you're Dr Seuss.
put yourself in his head, and he's hearing all the things many of our WASs have said
"i love you but cant live with you" "i want this to work but cant do it right now" "its only temporary" "i'm moving out only because i need space" "i'll come back"
all textbook WAS phrases.
its only because we believe DueinMay's words that we choose not to see this.
if he was here, telling us his story from the past 2 months, we'd tell him to DB, GAL, she has OM, etc. and this includes not saying ILY and not initiating ML.
and it wouldnt surprise me one bit if she did become an actual WAS. i think she's already on her way to becoming one.
"In a ham and eggs breakfast, the hen is involved, but the pig is committed".
....