10 Years Later

[SunFunOne]

In 2 weeks it will be 10 years since I joined this bb. Have had 3 different personas so my signup date is not accurate but it was first week of Nov, 2001. Too little, too late. H had left in August, moved in with OW on Nov 1. I was a mess!

One brief return home in Dec then he was gone for good. One of the nastiest. He was extremely cruel to me and gave as little as possible to our 3 kids. My 2 youngest (then teens) were devestated.

Fast forward 10 years. Kids and I are still very close, very connected. He is still trying to have some kind of R with them although they won't accept OW and so they don't spend holidays or anything together and this bothers him.

But it is still ALL ABOUT HIM - just as it was when he left.

D is now 23. Graduating next month. Just learned she can only invite 2 people to her grad. Was worried about inviting Mom and Dad. I told her to do what she felt right about but that I was a big girl and could handle him. We made some peace when our oldest, disabled son was in a coma last Dec. I had not seen or spoke with him in 5 years but called him at that time and spent hours with him in hospital. And we are a little better since then. And S is doing great too.

But D has now decided she would rather have middle S and I at her grad, not her father. He has been more like a dad to her. In fact - when the split occurred and he was 19 - he asked to be named guardian of his siblings in the event of my death so his dad could not have them. Mature!

When D and I talked about her grad the other night (& I reminded her to make her own decision on who to invite), she started to talk about the divorce and how devestating it was for her. Changed her life forever. Shaped who she was. It was hard to hear. I did the best I could. I know I made mistakes (like talking bad about her dad at times - big regret) but I was always there for her - even when I was at my lowest point ever.

So just a reminder to everyone who is still in the trenches. Your kids did not ask to have this happen - they'd have done anything to avoid it but like us - they have no control over it at all. They can and WILL lash out - and it is often at the one closest to them. In my case - the kids rarely lashed out at him because they were afraid he would cut them off completely - so I took the brunt of it.

But do the best you can with your children. You only get one shot at raising them. And it IS challenging. But it is also WORTH IT! The payoff in the end is huge!

Hugs to everyone!

Barb (aka Travelbarb, BarbieDoll and SunFunOne)

[25yearsmlc]

thanks...


though we are reconciled, I still see the damage done, mostly to my middle child d22. She was 16 when h left and he missed her last 2 years at home.

She now thinks she's bisexual. Though I don't "really" have a problem with that in theory, I KNOW my kids. She's not bi or gay. She's hurt and the man who hurt her left a mark. (Now my OTHER d, the tomboy I would have believed, but she's boy crazy. D22 was always a ballerina, very very feminine and talked about princes and fairy tales and romance....h wounded and deserted her at a crucial time. Even now when he and I are together on it, down deep I guess I still shake my head about how predictable this was. Of course they'll feel differently! (On that note, while apart for 2 years, my mil NEVER once called our d's to see how they were. Never visited or asked for them, or anything. SO when mil passes away and d22 spoke at the funeral, d22 said she wished she "had known her grandma but just b/c grandma didn't know d22 does not mean g-ma didn't love her...." And h and his brother were "Shocked" to hear that d22 didn't "KNOW" how much g-ma loved her...

I almost said "are you kidding?" My family was there too, and sisters said, "Thank God d22 gets it. She said nice things, BUT she was also authentic..." AMEN...

H feels terrible about it all now. In his defense, he IS trying and when she came out, he said the right things. But I think it kills him. D22 asks what he tells me about her coming out and honestly hate to say it but he NEVER brings it up.

But even when you have a good outcome, the kids are hurt. My biggest mistake?? Letting h's MLC or whatever it was, bother me so long before I took charge of MY life....wish I'd moved on faster. Possibly would have gotten back toegher faster but IDK....
What I could have done differently? I guess maybe I could have div and remarried some great guy? That assumes a whole lot...

OR somehow have more PDA now in front of her? Hmmm, have to ponder it.

Thanks for sharing.

Wish kids had immunity to this.

[SunFunOne]

25 yrs:

Yes I wish they had some immunity to it all. But such is life.

My father was really upset that H left when D turned 13. He felt it was so important for her to have a good R with her dad, especially at that time. He stepped in and did a big reno project with middle son then and also spent extra time with D.

I'm with you on your D22's authentic speech about her grandmother. I could never figure out how "loyalty" to the wayward child meant disowning your own grandchildren. Maybe that's a clue as to WHY the MLCers act the way they do. My ex had a lousy childhood - alcoholic dad, unloving mom - both were married mid teens and had 5 kids in short order - they were not mature enough to raise kids. And every single one of the kids ended up divorced and a couple of them alcoholic as well.

We do the best we can. And what I'm trying to teach my kids now is that life happens. And learning to make the most of the imperfections is what makes us strong.

I hope they recover and are stronger for it all.

Barb

[oldtimer]

I think it is EXTREMELY unlikely that your marital problems have anything to do with your DD's expressed sexual preference. As far as I know, there is NO decent evidence to suggest that marital problems have such effects on children.

Try to be respectful of your daughter and avoid questioning whether something so intimate and personal is an authentic part of her. It is certainly nothing for you to externalize for her and blame on someone else. It won't help her. It will hurt her.

The idea that femininity and liking princesses demonstrates one's sexual preference is also just plain wrong. Plenty of lesbians and bisexual women are very feminine.

I'd like to suggest that maybe you "KNOW" your daughter less well than you think. We all thought we "KNEW" the WAS before the WAS walked.

Start with a beginner's mind. Listen to your DD. Believe her. Be happy that she shared this with you. Sexual preference is simply a property she has, like hair color or eye color. Given you don't plan to date your own daughter, her sex like should not be any of your business really, or affect your relationship with her in any way.

I work with college students all the time. Your attitude WILL hurt her. Listen to her and trust. Don't judge.

[25yearsmlc]

I appreciate your feedback but I didn't give the lengthy and well thought out analysis I put into that statement, and am not sure I want to here....

I have read extensively on this and have gone to a specialist c on this very topic. Also, my d admits her dad leaving made her "Wonder about men" and "not trust or like them very much"...whereas before he left, she denies having those thoughts or feelings.

I think it is EXTREMELY unlikely that your marital problems have anything to do with your DD's expressed sexual preference. As far as I know, there is NO decent evidence to suggest that marital problems have such effects on children.

That's not true. There is ample evidence that suggests gay women have had a higher percentage of traumatic or negative emotional r's with the men in ther lives growing up, and or were molested as children.

While There are cases of those who seem clearly to have been born that way, there are also those who experiment with same sex relations and later go straight. I'm very very very familiar with the "Born that way" type as I have other family members in that exact category.

They are among the ones who agree with me that this is a reaction in her, to her father. She had boyfriends before he left and is still is attracted to men. But she knows what it feels like to think men desert women (saw her uncle do it at the same time h did and that hurt her a lot too. She loved that uncle).

She began questioning exactly one month after h left. She asked me "why do men hurt women like this?" I told her to talk to her dad about but she had and she had sobbed and he still left. (He feels like [censored] about this now.)

You're making way too many assumptions about my comment in one unrelated post. Really.

As a former softball player, I saw girls who were gay. I also saw girls experiment w/girls they admired or had crushes on, but who later ended up happily m to men, and who turned out not to be gay or with women ever again....

Of those who were labelled, some later choose marriage and kids. I often think if none of them had been labelled, even more might have just gone back to being straight...but the ones who married and had kids and told me they are happy now....Were they gay or bisexual before? Or did they simply evolve? Change? Or get prematurely labelled? Who knows?

I think lumping all the experiments girls engage in, into the same behavioral group or gender orientation as those who always had those feelings, is inaccurate...and I strongly believe that the labels are clearly not applicable or true for all...there are a select few who really don't belong in the "born that way" group.

I think my d is in that group. I Still think so. I did not tell HER that!

Try to be respectful of your daughter and avoid questioning whether something so intimate and personal is an authentic part of her. It is certainly nothing for you to externalize for her and blame on someone else. It won't help her. It will hurt her.[/b]

REALLY?? Be respectful to her?

Man that comment is so offensive to me. Why would YOU assume I don't know that? Just as my h reassured her we love and accept her, so did I.
Why tell me to "try and be respectful of her" as if I am not? Man...

I didn't blame anything on anyone to my d. That would imply she's "wrong" to feel as she does and I don't believe that.

I also don't care whether she is in a phase or rebelling or trying to subconcsiously hurt her dad OR is authentically bisexual as she claims--- b/c for all intents and purposes, NOW, that's where she is. I ACCEPT THAT....don't lecture me on being closeminded or judgemental to my treasured d.

I love her more than anything in the world.

But I know what I saw when her father left (you were not there) and she reacted to the pain he caused her. I KNOW this.

The idea that femininity and liking princesses demonstrates one's sexual preference is also just plain wrong. Plenty of lesbians and bisexual women are very feminine.

Don't take ONE comment out of context and run with it. I'm not Archie Bunker.

I'd like to suggest that maybe you "KNOW" your daughter less well than you think. We all thought we "KNEW" the WAS before the WAS walked.

Start with a beginner's mind. Listen to your DD. Believe her. Be happy that she shared this with you. Sexual preference is simply a property she has, like hair color or eye color. Given you don't plan to date your own daughter, her sex like should not be any of your business really, or affect your relationship with her in any way.


OMG where to begin with your "one post based assessment" SIGH

SHE chose to share all this with me over a year ago & I thanked her for her openness and trust the minute she told me.

SHE states she's "not gay" b/c she is also attracted to men. Is she lying? And I guess it's my business to the extent SHE involved me in this -- b/c she wants it to be ----so she can "live honestly and without shame", and of course I support that.

Straight or gay or bisexual, my kids sex lives are NOT a topic I'm inclined to obsess about. It's like thinking of your parent's sex life...good grief...

Ever cross your mind YOU might know her less well than I do?

See, YOU make assumptions about ALL gays and bisexuals
and that doesn't sound accurate or fair or research based, to me.

You seem to suggest there is NO CONFUSION in them,no possibility that they are ultimately going to end up in a different place, even when THEY tell us they are confused.


I work with college students all the time. Your attitude WILL hurt her. Listen to her and trust. Don't judge.

Look who's talking about judging...I taught college students and I also raised some, including the one I'm referring to here.

Sorry OT but you are off base here. My "attitude will hurt her"? You have some nerve.

You took ONE part of ONE post I wrote and just ran with it - trying to make me out to be some 1950s evangelical condeming my d...or to make me feel like crap about my mothering, all b/c you talk to students in an academic environment...??? Geez talk about generalizations.

I've been through a lot w/this and so has my h.

What I shared with someone on this thread, was a PRIVATELY held view, not something I dumped on my d.

I didn't go into the multiple studies I read or what the gender c said to me or what the gay c's I spoke to said,

some of whom met my d b/c SHE asked me to meet with her and them....nor did I go into what h and I discussed or what D22 told me in detail,

b/c thats beyond the scope of this thread.

Being a good mother is the most important achievement of my life, so don't make judgements about me that undermine that.

I have worked VERY VERY hard to be as loving and compassionate and open minded as I can, and my d has told me she's "so grateful" to have a mother like me. We're damn close.

I can privately think to myself "I love and accept you, but am not sure I really buy it." That doesn't make me judgemental or hurtful to her. That makes me skeptical.

When my s25 first told he was Buddhist his freshman year of colleg I accepted it... Internally I recall being a little bemused and thinking , "gee, that's the same year I was Buddhist..." NO way would I ever tell him that, and discreditor demean his honest searching.

Since I witnessed many lesbian relationships in my early days, I don't really have the beginner's mind you suggested, so much as an informed one.
Yeah you pushed a button.

[25yearsmlc]

sorry for the hijack sun

[oldtimer]

I'm not sure what you read into my post 25, but I said none of those bad things about you.

I said, maybe you shouldn't assume you know DD as well as you think. Start with a beginners mind. Don't judge. Doing otherwise hurts kids when they are where your DD is, not matter the background story. You seem to agree, so I'm not sure why I seem to have hurt you, but apologies as it was not my intent.

[Andabelle]

It bothered me too when you said your daughter couldn't be genuinely bi because she was feminine. Gender identity and sexual orientation are separate issues. Think butch gay men.

I think OT's concern is the negative construction you (unintentionally, because don't sound at all homophobic) put on it-- sexuality the result of trauma = mental illness.

I hope that makes sense. It is only natural given the timing you would wonder, but take care not to let your D know what you think about it. Only time will tell if this is a fad, or who she really is.

[25yearsmlc]

It bothered me too when you said your daughter couldn't be genuinely bi because she was feminine. Gender identity and sexual orientation are separate issues. Think butch gay men.

I think OT's concern is the negative construction you (unintentionally, because don't sound at all homophobic) put on it-- sexuality the result of trauma = mental illness.

I hope that makes sense. It is only natural given the timing you would wonder, but take care not to let your D know what you think about it. Only time will tell if this is a fad, or who she really is.

did you really read my post? That's pretty much what I said. I listed about half the other reasons for my position, which has been thoroughly examined and thoughfully formed...

And I didn't say she "could not be bi BECAUSE she was feminine"..(See Portia De Rossi)

I simply made ONE comment to illustrate in support that she had no signs of it earlier. I gave one real but somewhat weak example b/c statistically there are fewer (but YES there are SOME), lesbians who show those feminine signs, than straight women. Think butch lesbians, who outnumber lesbians as feminine as my d, statistically.

I have other reasons for believing as I do, but that's really beyond the scope of this thread and it's a hijack.

[SunFunOne]

So everyone - how's the weather in your neck of the woods?

Barb