W is moving out.....life goes on...

[In_Shock]

hey all--- thank you SO much for thinking of me and for prayers, good thoughts, or even some voodoo at this point.

I didn't post for a couple of days. My emotions are all over the place and I am trying to figure out what is going to happen next. After W and I had a huge argument about OW's less that great qualities...(understatement, and my mistake for pointing them out..) it seemed as if we were getting along better. We kind of cleared the air - all that crap after the talk Monday night, and I was feeling better. Not ok = but not terrible. Just on a plane.

Well, this am she drops another bomb on me. We were talking about getting S a new bed b/c he still has a toddler bed and needs a new one. she said, well, that is contingent upon other things.... Turns out she is really looking at moving out and taking S asap.

I'm digesting the rest of the convo -- where she told me I just drive her crazy. That I've been doing everything around the house and she thinks it's all to get her back. (doing things around the house was one of my 180s bc MIL said W didn't feel as if I do enough. blah blah blah) SO I feel I'm f'in damned if I do--damned if I don't. Much like most LBS....it's a game we're thrust into and we don't know the rules, or if there are rules, they change midsteam with no warning.

I'm really broken today. Really broken. I'll post more specifics later, but I was checking my email and saw that some of you were checking on me. This message board is a lifesaver, and you guys, I'm sorry we're in this boat, but you're a great bunch of people to be in it with if we must go through it all. Some really strong character exhibited here.

Post more later. Gonna go play more with my beautiful boy.

[Valeska19]

(((IS)))Sorry you feel broken.

I definitely remember my w saying similar things to me in regards to me changing to get her back. The last we had a talk (granted two months ago) she was like "I feel like I have to be mean to you in order for you to get it."

25 always post that saying about sufficient time + positive changes = changes she can believe in.. (I may have screwed that up.. sorry 25!)

The point being is.. if your 180's are for her.. she will see it. If the changes are for you.. she will push it to see if she can believe in them. Pushing comes in many forms. Usually they hurt a little bit.

I know you know this and I believe that you are looking inward and changing yourself for YOU.

so realize that her words.. is all part of the process.. and whether she knows it or not.. is fear based. Because if was true and you changes genuine.. what reasoning would she then have to leave the marriage? She would either have to find a new one or look deep in herself? The 2nd option - is so much harder!

I posted on my thread last night in regards to my sister. We were close when I was a young adult and somehow our relationship became about how I could help her. Watching her kids, giving her money.. etc. Any phone call meant = I need something Val!

I was so over it that I ran away to college in Chicago.. but that's another story.

Together we are repairing our damaged relationship but honestly after 11 years.. I still hesitate to believe in her consistent changes. She stopped asking me for anything over 3 years ago so although my feelings are understandable..I also realize that it is my BS holding me back. It's now MY CHOICE to believe her changes. KWIM?

So keep working on you and if your w decides to believe it.. great. If not - her loss. Just know that at some point (maybe even from the beginning) it's out of your hands.

Don't allow her "pushing" to discourage you for a long period of time. Does it hurt - sure.. but ultimately this is about saving you.. then M.

P.S. I can't remember but did you ever talk to that L in regards to you S. Can she just move out and take him with her?

[Rick1963]

(((((HUGS))))) IS. Please let her go in your heart and mind. Stop arguing and talking to her. I know how hard that is but stop mind reading what her plans are because you don't konw and it hurts you. You can't work on you if you are busy thinking of her next steps (easier said than done but we will get the hang of it). Look the more I pull away from my W the more she talks to me. Pretty weird stuff. I am starting to think that even though I have been a screwy H at times, my W has also. The difference is that I'm here changing and she is not. W is not working on herself at all and neither is yours. So remember that we here are special people never forget that. Hang in there

[In_Shock]

thanks Val. Good insight. I think this is an important point:
"so realize that her words.. is all part of the process.. and whether she knows it or not.. is fear based. Because if was true and you changes genuine.. what reasoning would she then have to leave the marriage? She would either have to find a new one or look deep in herself? The 2nd option - is so much harder!

Yes, I really AM trying to become a better person for me (and actually, so i can be a better mom to S) I really truly want to grow and learn. W wants to run away and start over. Not work on the 13 years.... just GIVE UP!!!! She just cannot believe in the changes.... yes, 25's formula will prove to be true. He!! even if W doesn't EVER believe me, or want me back, perhaps someone will see something worthwhile in me.... Or maybe I will? Work in progress.... Really, if she believed in me and my changes, why leave? Wish she knew how hard I've tried. Wish she knew how much I love her and S. Wish wish wish...... hard damn day. I have no idea why/how W came to have all this power over me and my emotions. It's a MYSTERY.

[25yearsmlc]

re=read Valeska's post b/c it's great one. And you are growing and w's not and that's how it is. The way to reconcile with that factor is that you lead by example. Remember that. Okay so let's review this post of yours now..

hey all--- thank you SO much for thinking of me and for prayers, good thoughts, or even some voodoo at this point.

I didn't post for a couple of days. My emotions are all over the place and I am trying to figure out what is going to happen next.

Well, STOP THAT^^. You decide what's going to happen next in your life. No more reacting. You are not a piece of furniture waiting to see where you'll be placed.

After W and I had a huge argument about OW's less that great qualities...(understatement, and my mistake for pointing them out----

Well, this am --- he still has a toddler bed and needs a new one. she said, well, that is contingent upon other things.... Turns out she is really looking at moving out and taking S asap.

Which is not new information actually. So why does it hit you so hard? B/C MAYBE your relative peace of no conflicts for 3 days, created expectations in you? Lose those expectations or keep getting hit in the stomach. Cover the gut with the protection of zero expectations and there won't be any more sucker punches (new metaphor- Does it work?) I mean, do you get it?

She's leaving. It's possible at the last minute she'll change her mind but not likely.

The course of action you have to increase the chance of her staying, is the same course of action you have for getting her to return someday...
which is letting her go.

She has her own journey to take, and you are not invited. So don't tag along til she flees. That journey without you may mean she'll learn sooner, that the grass is greener where it gets the most water. OR she may not learn that for a long time or ever and go from one r to another, OR she may put that "water" in the new R. But it's still the Same course of action for you, atm...

(you can always change the path later if need be. But atm, this is what we've got).

The R with s4 is also key, for you as you, and for you as a couple. Keep your focus on him for he's also the bond you have with her. Do NOT let her think you won't fight for him. Nip that delusion in the bud, but w/o anger. Being resolute does not mean you are angry.

Even if you take your life savings and go to the Supreme court "to MAKE NEW LAW" then let her believe you'll do just such a thing...it increases the time you'll get with him (she'll probably settle the issue out of court to avoid spending HER life savings and OW's, unless she's insane AND mean AND OW wants to spend that type of money??)...and you'll ultimately look better in your w's eyes IF YOU handle it with love, devotion to HIM, and zero anger. Avoid looking vindictive as much as humanly possible.

But if you were the primary caregiver before, then keep that as your mantra..."I'm the one who SAH with him the most, I want what's best for him which is stability and it's HIS interests I'm duty bound to look after first."

At some point she'll have to concede she broke her vows, and your heart, AND YET all you want now is your R with him to be unstolen. For HIS sake as well as yours. It's pretty frickin' reasonable.



I'm digesting the rest of the convo -- where she told me I just drive her crazy.

Don't bother digesting that or you'll get as nutty as she is.

It's meaningless drivel from an alien spewing at you.

Gee, what if the alien thinks Bill Clinton is an Iranian spy from Mars? Want to spend money or time on "investigating" that?

That I've been doing everything around the house and she thinks it's all to get her back. (doing things around the house was one of my 180s bc MIL said W didn't feel as if I do enough. blah blah blah) SO I feel I'm f'in damned if I do--damned if I don't.

True you are damned either way. So Do NOT argue this or you'll be arguing the old "See my REAL changes that are not for you but did YOU notice them?? They're really real and authentic and only for ME, but did YOU SEE them? TELL ME!! Now do you love me??" that stuff is

SOOOO not good for the cause...instead I'd

LAUGH AT THAT^^^^ bemused feedback with some of the following suggestions,
or your own versions...

1) "Seriously? You think I took the garbage out to win you over? If only I'd known it was that easy"

2) "ah, yes the drawers are organized now, and SO it's still all about YOU??" THESE are to be said in a teasing KIND voice with no anger or they will not work

(though they're good zingers)

3) "so me working on traits I think need some tweaking, bothers you b/c you don't want me to achieve perfection? But I was so close!"

OR

4) "Yes I'm doing some things differently. I want to teach s4 that 'X' is a good idea/habit...I Don't know why that bothers you so much but you won't have to deal with it much longer anyway." (Shows acceptance of her choice AND that your change IS real AND will continue regardless...)

ASK FOR NO FEEDBACK and do not ask ANY questions (other than funny rhetorical ones). IOW this is not the time to engage.

IF she insists that she "knows why" you are doing all this, you can be direct especially if you feel the spew rushing to the top and you know your mouth is going to get you in trouble....again...

INSTEAD---what about saying something like this?

"W, you've rationalized & justified a lot of things that have shocked and deeply hurt me. But you made some valid points that I want to address for ME and for my life and my future r's...You should be flattered that I validated it by making this change."

Then leave the room, PLEASE...theres no way she's going to slap her forehead and say "OMG You're the one!"

If she is, she can follow you into the next room!! My fear is you'll hope this ONE great point is going to turn it ALL around...and it won't. You'll push the conversation until the good point you originally made is lost...amidst the morass of more rationalizations from her. Don't do it.

Best case is you plant some seeds...and then we hope that time and consistency nurtures them into sprouting real changes in you.

Make sense?


Much like most LBS....it's a game we're thrust into and we don't know the rules, or if there are rules, they change midsteam with no warning.

well said. So you have to take charge of your life and make YOUR rules for living your life well. It's all you control.

What steps have you taken, or are you taking THIS WEEK, to retain some legal rights with s4?


I'm really broken today. Really broken.

We get it. I'm really sorry buddy.

I'll post more specifics later, but I was checking my email and saw that some of you were checking on me. This message board is a lifesaver, and you guys, I'm sorry we're in this boat, but you're a great bunch of people to be in it with if we must go through it all. Some really strong character exhibited here.

When someone asked me why I post here when my sitch is no longer in crisis, this is why. People I never met (and a few I did manage to meet) magically came into my life at the worst time.

I prayed and prayed and then found this place...people here guided me, they supported me, they genuinely cared for me and got "nothing" out of it in return. No money, no gifts, no public accolades b/c it's anonymous.

A man named "Was2sad", and Faithisbelieving, Denver, 9lives, 2step, and others who I am forgetting atm, were a few of the many MEN who helped me retain my faith in men. Women/sisters helped me stay strong and not feel like a doormat and to see the difference. Brandnewday (with 8 kids and an OW to cope with) made it and inspired me.

These strangers gave me such valuable love. They helped me grow and learn and to be brave, when truly I felt like staying in bed all day with some ice cream or booze, or both. OR hiring a mean L and filing up the wazoo and taking h for all his moolah and never looking back b/c I was SO deeply wounded and so very angry....

What a gift they gave. So I come back and pay it forward. It's literally the least I can do.


Post more later. Gonna go play more with my beautiful boy.

sounds like a plan...and next month, the city of brotherly love? What's up with that?

[In_Shock]

Rick --- thanks for checking in on me. i think about you a lot. Wish I knew why we were in this sitch, but I do know we will be ok eventually.

Yes, I keep talking and talking and need to shut the F up. I've been doing better.... but it seems like nothing makes a difference. I'm just sad, down and having one of those days. I want my w back. I want to turn back time and really HEAR her when she needed me to change. I want to keep my S here at home and have a stable family for him.

Oh, it's SO hard. How do we LBS survive??? I know.... good days, bad days....and me???? SHUT the F up. I know. I'm working on it. As 25 said, free legal advice. SHUT UP. I need to just sit and stare....LOL> keep my quiet. Talk only in class.... But it's SO HARD. My family.......is crumbling.

I sometimes don't think I'll make it.... then I remember I will make it. I have to. I have a son. He is THE most important thing ----even if W is willing to just toss him to the fates, I am NOT> he is MY FOCUS MY LIFE> \

[25yearsmlc]

was at d14's basketball game 6 weeks ago. A teammate I carpool with lives with her L dad, and the other siblings live with their mom and there was a very recent divorce.

So the sister of the teammate is maybe 6 y/o. I'm sitting a seat away from the father on one side and little girl is standing near me on the other side, sort of squirming (never bring a 6 y/o to a game she doesn't understand, without a frickin' toy!!)

And the team's name is "Family"...
so I ask if that's correct.

ME: Is the team's name actually 'Family'?

Little girl: Yes

ME: oh well that's kind of cool'

Little girl: you know what's not cool? My family is broken...

(At this point the L father turns away from us and faces the wall and i see his shoulders moving like he's holding back sobs and I'm speechless-briefly of course )

ME: Your family isn't "broken", you're still a family, you just live in two houses now.

Little girl: yes but we don't live together anymore.

ME: that probably feels sad.

Little girl: it sure is.

[Not saying my answer was perfect. But who expects that from a 6 y/o at a game?]

TODAY'S GAME:

I see the little girl and her siblings and her parents sitting together watching the game. Father says "Hi" to me and looks happy. Wife stares...semi friendly but wary...

Little girl is beaming, runs to me and she loudly "whispers"

"My family is living in ONE place!"

Just thought I'd share that.

The deal is, they reconciled, post divorce...so yeah, it happens!

[In_Shock]

thanks 25---- i know it happens... I am SOOOOOO sad for my boy. He needs us both and it is so insane to me that W can just move on..... She gives lip service to his well-being. BS. He calls for BOTH of us morning and night. If it was just W and I.....ok.... but my S. He is my world.

If she does move out.....yes, I will play the cards as dealt. I will continue dbing my best. But my god......poor little dude. He has no idea what is really going on and I wish I could shield him from it. SHE is doing what she needs now..... BUT I am SO angry b/c of the effect on my baby. GD it I'm so sad tonight.

[In_Shock]

yeah....it happens..... I just SO don't want my S to have any of the pain.... know what I mean???


25, i still say, you have a gift. I'm so glad u are here.

[25yearsmlc]

Rick --- thanks for checking in on me. i think about you a lot. Wish I knew why we were in this sitch, but I do know we will be ok eventually.

TRUE...remember that!
[b]
Yes, I keep talking and talking and need to shut the F up. I've been doing better.... but it seems[u] like nothing makes a difference[/u].[/b]

Hence the need to shut up. IT only hurts You AND the cause...


I'm just sad, down and having one of those days. I want my w back. I want to turn back time and really HEAR her when she needed me to change. I want to keep my S here at home and have a stable family for him.

We get it. A friend with 4 kids died down the street, quite suddenly. Even now I think of things we might have done differently or that might have made a difference.

It's worse than pointless now, Once the analysis is done and lessons duly noted
I mean...
Her medication caused an aneurysm in her brain to leak. She died 5 hours after leaving our home where we were all playing games with the kids and drinking wine and really having a ball. She said she had to leave b/c she had a headache. I said " stop hogging all the attention w/your headache and switch to white wine"...as usual she laughed easily.

We were all shocked by what happened and her h and kids were shattered.

Now, 3 years later, I think that they know more or less what happened, so more questions about what if, and more wishes for the time machine to take us back to before, are worse than pointless. They keep us stuck.

I say all this also b/c I wonder how it is that people with devastating events get through it. Yet they do, mary...isn't it weird?

Like how the survivors of horrible torture or war or POWs or victims of horrible crimes, (like that father/h in Connecticut? Or the victims of the men I represented in court...geez, i Used to wonder how I could get through that...

How do they make it through... and are later on, even happy? IT does happen. How? Ever wonder? I sure have.

I think they take one step after another, breathe one breath after another and in time, they notice the weather is balmy that day. In time, they see that there is a funny cartoon and a smile crossed their lips...IN TIME they begin to heal...


Oh, it's SO hard. How do we LBS survive??? I know.... good days, bad days....and me???? SHUT the F up. I know. I'm working on it. As 25 said, free legal advice. SHUT UP. I need to just sit and stare

or move about and GET OUTSIDE...GAL..what about that? I swear to you this is going to be a ton easier for you when you push yourself on that front. Seriously Mary, what have you got to lose?

I think I should just sign you up for 3 totally unrelated things from this computer..a cooking class, something physcial like Salsa lessons, and maybe start to get your pilot's license. Or take the 1 hour class and go tandem skydiving...I did for my 50th and it was the BEST birthday present I ever gave myself...THERE, problem solved...

....LOL> keep my quiet. Talk only in class.... But it's SO HARD. My family.......is crumbling.

Your family is not "crumbling". Your son will have 2 homes...maybe only temporarily...Watch how you see this event for it will bleed into his perception.
Your dreams of the future you had, are in jeopardy and that is a tough pill to swallow.

But it's not quite the same as having NO dreams left or all shattered. My dead friend has no dreams left. But You? You get to come up with all new dreams...and you get to pursue them!

I sometimes don't think I'll make it.... then I remember I will make it. I have to. I have a son. He is THE most important thing ----even if W is willing to just toss him to the fates, I am NOT> he is MY FOCUS MY LIFE> \

You will make it, you are making it, you shall continue to make it AND MORE

first goal, survive this. You are doing so. Next goal: Thrive from this...

we're getting there...you'll see.

Someday, believe it or not, you may well consider this nightmare ordeal to be among the most important BEST things to have happened in your life.

I'm a better mom, w and person for having been through this. I am happier than I would have been if it were not for this crisis and closer to h b/c of it too...

W/O this ordeal and this place, I don't know where that would've gotten me today.

I have heard that "Best thing to happen to me" line, from at least a dozen divorce survivors and reconciled marriages. They say the same thing, believe it or not. IF the LBSer grows, (as opposed to wallowing in victimhood)

They play the hands they were dealt, as well as they can. They don't fold.

Somehow they get happier and more content within. I have seen this OFTEN.

you will be one of them Mary, I'm sure.