...making a change in some direction that speeds things up or changes your situation.
Not sure what you're meaning here, but my situation has changed drastically as far as taking care and providing since the bomb dropped. Speeding things up is also what I've done since I started school full-time instead of part time. We are worlds different from where we were a year ago, and she is very pleased with the direction I'm taking my life.
However, as noted and discussed, she's not willing to be married to be married to me anymore. She understands, at least on a superficial level, how me not being around is going to affect her life and work, and says she's okay with that. While I'm fairly sure that me not providing for the past 5 years has had something to do with all of this, may have even driven it, the changes I've made thus far have shut down any criticism on her part of that aspect of our relationship. Her only question now is, will I finish it.
Had a visit with IC today, went pretty well. One of the things he mentioned to me is that W doesn't seem to see any value in what I may have brought into the relationship. Without me being a SAHD, she wouldn't have been able to take her job and travel, etc. She doesn't see the sacrifices I've made. Don't really feel like typing out the rest, I can explain later if necessary.
All of this may be true, but I told him I really don't see how it would make any difference. One thing he did say which I may try and phrase at some point, especially if she brings up legal stuff, is that while I've truly tried to (with some success according to S) understand what she went through the past few years, she doesn't seem to have tried to understand what my life was like during that same time. He suggested that I simply ask her if she has tried to understand.
The idea is intriguing. While I'm fairly certain she hasn't, which is why she thinks I had been using her to mooch and "live the high-life", I don't know for certain. She may not have even thought of trying to understand things from my point of view. She has never asked me though.
So I'm thinking of asking something along the lines of, "are you interested in understanding what life was like for me for the past 5 years?" This way, if she says no, it's not open-ended or pursuing. If she says yes, I can be concise, and then answer questions if she has them.
However, I'm not sure if this would be productive or not.
SP, I would agree with your IC... Your W is currently "unable" to see the value you brought to the M...
And unfortunately, until she "opens her eyes"... there is nothing you can do to "show" her... and going on strike is unlikely to have any positive value, either...
As much as you want to be appreciated regarding how you've contributed... in what way will it help your M? Will it hurt, help or have no effect?
If it will hurt (because your W just won't agree / see / admit your value; therefore it hurts you and your ego) then don't do it...
If it will help...? Well I guess you can try, but I'd recommend not doing anything twice if it hurts the first time...
If it will have no effect... is it worth focusing on, or is there something else that you might do that MIGHT be helpful...?
...is there something else that you might do that MIGHT be helpful...?
This is really the issue I'm having. It was suggested by my IC to bring it up at some point in a tactful way, and while I see the value in doing this if she actually tries, she's made it fairly clear to me that she doesn't want to work on our marriage, only our communication. In that context there are a number of things we could talk about, but I'm having an issue really finding things that may be helpful to us.
MC gives us certain strategies, but in the daily pleasant life we have, opportunities to directly put these tools to use are rare. I casually mentioned once that I may want to practice some of these tools, even framing it in a non-relationship way, and she shook her head as I began talking about it. So I just moved onto something else mid-sentence.
I do that type of thing far less; clam up and avoid topics that might be upsetting to her. Instead, I watch how I talk about that and carefully watch my frame of mind. All this, while very helpful and is certainly helping us enjoy each others presence more, still has no direct impact on her views/feelings regarding our marriage (she has said so, without prompting).
The fact is, she still doesn't believe in me. Only time will allow that to change, if she opens herself to the possibility. Otherwise, I believe in myself, and will continue on the path to becoming the best person I can be. Frankly, I don't think anyone, including me, should be married to someone who doesn't believe in them. So unless that changes, I don't see this working out. I'm not giving up, I'm just more realistic.
*sigh*... ok, this is how you might get it out there...
"W, I was at my IC the other day and the IC said to me... 'SP, you might want to share your feelings with your W.' So, W... I felt I wanted to share now...
I understand how you could be feeling [this way (insert something that you understand how she could be feeling)]. Myself, I feel that while it may not be obvious all that I do around here, I feel that my contribution to this household and family is either unnoticed or unappreciated."
There... that's it... nothing more... put it out there, walk away... no expectations... if your W offers feedback, just listen... validate if appropriate... speak of it... no more... even if she asks you to elaborate... the whole "putting yourself out there" sets you up to be baited and trapped into engaging in something that your W is likely speak on, which could likely take the convo down a painful, and pursuit like convo...
Very anti DB... no R talks... and convo about how you feel under appreciated... well... it's an R talk...
Your description of your W's reaction to "R talk" is very important... she has told you... she doesn't want to go there... so understand... if you go there... it could get ugly...
Your last paragraph ^^^^^^^^^^^^ read it again and again... remember it... have it tattooed to the inside of your eye lids...
Keep working on you and be the best man you can be, that only a fool would leave... and the more time you have to do that... really... the better...
*sigh*... ok, this is how you might get it out there...
"[i]W, I was at my IC the other day and the IC said to me... 'SP, you might want to share your feelings with your W.' So, W... I felt I wanted to share now...
I understand how you could be feeling [this way (insert something that you understand how she could be feeling)].
I like that approach, but I wouldn't ask about appreciation for my contribution. I would ask instead about if she understands, or has tried to understand what my life was like and what I was feeling for the past few years. That seems to be a moderate question that doesn't seem too pushy, and fits within the realm of building better communication.
I won't see her again until Saturday, another trip, so I've got some time to give it some thought.
ok... i had about 20 different responses... one of them went into a 20 page monologue...
See if you can answer this one:
What if your W tells you she does understand...?
Will you believe her...?
Will you think she means that she understands... in a way that you hope she understands...?
And in her understanding, are you hoping that she'll elaborate exactly how she understands and empathizes with your life and how you've been feeling especially that moment when... you baked those cookies... the one's with the smarty eyeballs and licorice smile... and how it felt when she lauged...???
So I ask... do you understand... that she may have a different... understanding... then you might hope for or expect...?
Or are you just wanting to ask and will happily accept a yes or no answer...? Or perhaps a blank look of... "What do you mean...? Do I understand...?"
Will you think she means that she understands... in a way that you hope she understands...?
And in her understanding, are you hoping that she'll elaborate exactly how she understands and empathizes with your life and how you've been feeling especially that moment when... you baked those cookies... the one's with the smarty eyeballs and licorice smile... and how it felt when she lauged...???
So I ask... do you understand... that she may have a different... understanding... then you might hope for or expect...?
Yes, I suspect she has a different understanding, if she has one at all. If she answers this way and I tell her my experience was different, she could either ask me to explain or not. If she's not interested in hearing my experience, then it just points to her not really being interested in me. That would be a little disappointing, but not unexpected.
Quote:
Or are you just wanting to ask and will happily accept a yes or no answer...? Or perhaps a blank look of... "What do you mean...? Do I understand...?"
Same as above. If she says yes, I'd ask what her understanding is... back to above. If she says no, I'd ask if she wants to understand... back to above.
The end result may be the same, but the way that a question is approached can have a significant impact. I want for her to understand what happened in my life, but I don't want her to think I'm pushing her. If there is no way to ask that question without it being perceived as pushing, then I won't ask it right now.
Where we are right now, not pushing is more important that asking for understanding. That being said, our 12 year anniversary is next Sunday, and I've prepared a song. I've written songs for her many times over the years, and it's the best way that I can express myself. Per the recommendation of my IC, it's an honoring of our time versus any sort of love song. The lyrics and music are definitely representative of how I feel, and while somewhat bittersweet, they are a "thank you" more than anything else. She's glossed over the date every time it comes up, so I definitely not going to make a big deal about it. A thank you song and a thank you card, essentially.
