Well, for the past month or so I've been posting over in newcomers, but thought I'd move over here since my situation has deteriorated significantly and I'm just not sure where to turn anymore.
My H is having an affair with his high school girlfriend, who is also married (separated now) with 4 kids. He says he has "feelings" for her, and has refused to end the affair "at this time" (he always throws that line in for effect). This is TOTALLY out of character for him (although I'm sure most people say that!) -- he is truly a person of integrity, or was until this all started -- and he has really morphed into someone I don't even recognize. No one in our lives believed it when they heard he was having an affair. Not his family, my family, or any of our friends (and we are very social people and have LOTS of friends). Everyone was shocked. To be honest, I even think he's a little shocked that he did it. He actually wound up confessing to me because he couldn't deal with the guilt any longer. But now that the A is out there, he seems fine. I, on the other hand, feel like crap. Every day is a struggle.
He has moved out "while we figure things out", but our relationship is going downhill quickly...mostly because I can't seem to get out of my own way. I am just SO angry and hurt by his behavior. I swear, I have EVERY intention of appearing calm, cool and collected every time I see him but somehow manage to devolve into an angry shrew every single time I interact with him these past few weeks. It is awful. I can't get a grip on myself, and it's totally killing me. And it's just pushing him farther and farther away from me.
I've been consumed by this affair ever since he disclosed it back in July. I swear I have read nearly EVERY affair book & learned about every affair philosophy out there, but I seem to get more confused every day. What is the best strategy to cope and try to DB while your spouse is having an affair??? I've read Michele's book a hundred times now, but cannot seem to let go and calm myself and appear to be "detached" when I see my H. We have young children (ages 5 and 9) and he is over a lot to see them, so we are forced to interact a ton. And every time I see him, get angry, lob a few sarcastic and hateful barbs at him, and then duck for cover, I know I've just given him more fuel/justification for why our marriage isn't working. But I can't seem to do things differently.
I've tried to go "dark" as much as I can, but always manage to slip up and break my own silence. Going dark is really just for me to try to cope and get a handle on my emotions better, but I can't even seem to do that.
I'm a competent, confident woman with a very full life...tons of friends, a happy and fulfilled outlook on the world, lots of hobbies, a job I love. I am a fighter, too...I never give up, I never quit, and I don't back down when things get tough. But truthfully, this situation has turned me into an angry, hysterical, dependent, needy mess. And I can't stand it anymore. I can't stand MYSELF right now.
Any advice would be appreciated. PLEASE give me honest feedback on how to do things differenty. I do want to save my marriage, but know I am currently part of the problem. My H, well, he's another story, but I can't control what he does right now. I need to get a grip on ME, and yet, I'm struggling.
I am short on time right now, but I want you to know that I will be posting to you in the morning. Just wanted you to know that I am sending prayers your way. You know what you need to do; it's just a matter of putting it into action! It's all about focusing on goals and detaching. I know...easier said than done, but if I could do it, you can, too!
Hang in there, and I'll be in touch. Just wanted you to know I'm in your corner.
I feel for you, I know what you're going through. I've been there and done just what you've done. My H was also someone whom no-one would have believed would have had an affair or walked out on his family.
I am not anywhere near experienced enough to have much in the way of advice, but a couple of thoughts come to mind.
Detachment seems to be coming to me with time - it was not something I could 'do' as an act of will, even though I realised that I needed to do it. So maybe give yourself a bit of a break in this regard. It will come to you, but in the meantime, you will feel anger and hurt but you need to control WHEN you show it.
Given that you're "a fighter" that you never give up, never quit, and don't back down when things get tough, then USE these character traits. Perhaps if you try to see your interactions with him as something that you can win through control of your own feelings... Don't let his actions get to you, fight them, see your interactions as an exercise in gamesmanship at this time - i.e. you're better than just being drawn into reactions that don't get you nearer to what you want.
Even, perhaps, visualising how you will interact when he says X or does Y. Practise what you'll say and how you'll look a few times beforehand. See yourself leaving the room, going for a walk, or at least counting to 10 in your head before responding, if you feel angry or hurt at anything that comes up. Think in advance of some 180s you might do.
Probably not great advice, but these sorts of things have helped me out a little. I'll be damned if my H is going to get me to react impulsively any more.
I almost feel as if my H is trying to get me to behave badly because he feels so guilty and conflicted about what he's doing. And I will not give him this out. I'm a fighter too. But these days I'm going to fight with love, not anger; with compassion for the man I knew, not in terms of the hurt I've felt from the man who, like your H, found out he was not the guy he (and everyone else) thought he was (and hence had his whole world crumble around him).
Most of all have faith in yourself that you can do it. It will come - I can tell from the way you talk about yourself. You're too insightful to stay stuck in this counter-productive stage for too long.
Many many of us here know what you are feeling. To go from feelings of contentment, to feelings of abandonment seemingly overnight is really difficult. My situation is different in that my H is still living in the home, and even sharing our bed, but he has been having an affair for about 3 years now. He just won't admit it to me. But I know. We all do don't we?
The hardest thing to do is to not appear needy and desperate. Next time he comes over, why don't you head to the gym or out for a walk wearing a cute workout outfit? Or be all dressed up and head out for lunch/dinner with your friends? He doesn't have to know with who. And as hard as it is to pretend to be happy when you are feeling this way, fake it if you have to. It sounds like you are a fighter so don't let this OW take your H away. GAME ON! Have some great new music playing on your stereo next time he shows up.
When he comes over, be pleasant but distant. Keep conversations short and to the point but don't talk about your R. Take extra effort to look fabulous, and then leave just when he shows up. Again, he doesn't have to know where you are going looking so GREAT! I find that being out in nature is calming and puts things in perspective. Take care of you in every way possible! Love yourself. Act Happy, be cheerful and positive. It does have a way of making you feel better even if you are only "acting" at first. Tend to agree with him by finding the small kernal of truth in anything that come out of his mouth. Example: "I'm not sure what I want" you could say "Yes, it must be confusing for you". Something like that. Get sexy!
Take care of YOU. He'll notice.
You don't deserve this. He made this choice, but this does not have to define the rest of your life.
xoxoxoxox, Abbey
Me - 49 H - 56 S - 23 D - 20 Married 25 years H moved out 10/11/13 H moved back in 10/13/13 H moved out again 8/1/14
Have you read the book "Journey from Abandonment to Healing"? It really helped me face my hurt, anger, fear, etc and start the detachment process. I think it would be worth your time to check it out. Detaching doesn't come natural or easy. It took me hitting rock bottom to finally start the process. Once you do start the process and see how it's positively changing your life, it will come more naturally to you. Remember...detaching doesn't mean you stop loving or caring for your husband. It simply means that you accept that your husband isn't his normal self right now, so therefore you refuse to let his words and actions affect your words, actions and thoughts. It's designed to protect you.
I also suggest you really work on establishing and following through with your personal goals. Take your H out of the equation right now...what can you do in your life to make RSGG happier? How can you improve...not to win back your H's affections, but for YOU?
I may be wrong, but it appears that your H is still invested in your marriage; he hasn't completely checked out just yet. So take this time to practice patience, work on detachment and focus on your goals. Come here to vent rather than opening your mouth (that took a lot of work on my part, and I finally accomplished it!). You are an intelligent, fun, confident woman and a FIGHTER...you can do this!
Also, in case you haven't come across these yet...thought I'd share them (I believe Sandi compiled these rules):
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had anawakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives becausehe/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes
In addition, I meant to suggest earlier...take a break from all the affair, r books, etc (other than DR, of course!). Instead, give your mind and heart a break. Read a good chick novel. I have a list of good reads if you ever need it!
lc4, Abbey and NLW - thanks so much for the kind, helpful advice. I really do appreciate it, and am grateful for your words of wisdom.
I've read the Journey from Abandonment to Healing, at least partway through, and it's been somewhat helpful. I definitely struggle with feelings of rejection and abandonment from things I've had to deal with in my childhood, so this situation is bringing all of that "stuff" up again in a truly nasty way. I almost feel like my sad, angry inner child has overtaken the grown up person that is really me and SHE is now running the show. SHE is ruling my thoughts and feelings. SHE is fighting hard to force her husband to come home, to "see the light" and to say he is sorry for his behavior. Trouble is, we all know SHE isn't helping me AT ALL. I need to put that genie back in the bottle and get a grip on my grown up self, but it seems nearly impossible to me right now.
I'm worried that the past 4 weeks or so of us fighting, arguing, and going round and round with arguments that go nowhere have really taken their toll on our situation. He is now saying he has little or no hope of reconciliation at this point. He says he just doesn't see how things can ever get any better. Has love for me but isn't "in love" anymore. Too much anger, bitterness and resentment that he can't get over now. He says I've been so angry, critical and "called him names" (ie, betrayer) since he disclosed the affair that he can't ever trust me again.
Part of me agrees with him that I've been angry and have caused the situation to deteriorate. But part of me is also angry, because he refuses to end his affair, refuses to work on the marriage, and is just being so mean to me that I simply don't know what to do or how to handle it. What else does he expect me to do...grin and bear it?? I know I sould like a whiny baby, and I hate that...but part of me wants to just stomp my feet and scream at him to come home and stop this craziness (again, there goes my inner child!)
OK, so here is my question? Is there truly any hope for this marriage? He is just so set in his ways now. Moving out seems to have done nothing but allow him to see the OW more freely. He misses the kids, but even that isn't enough of a deterrent to get him to work on our marriage. And I'm left behind, totally bewildered, going "what the heck is going on? What happened to my life?" I know it's been a few months and I should be over the shock right now, but honestly, it still hurts nearly as bad as it did the very first day I learned about his affair.
lc4 - what was it, do you think, that made your H give up the OW? Did you just stop referencing her and he eventually gave it up? I'm just so overwhelmed. I don't have any hope at this point that anything I do or don't do is going to have any effect while he is seeing her. So I pose the question: can DBing work in my situation??
I think my plan is to move ahead as though we are heading towards divorce...i.e., I'm going to try to detach emotionally like NLW says so I don't get so wound up when we speak and so I don't have ANY expecations of him right now. I'm also going to do what lc4 suggested and work on my own personal goals. Also, Abbey, you are right -- I need to step up my game when it comes to my appearance when he is around, and try to be more mysterious about where I'm going and with whom. He is a TOTAL control freak, so I think if I can really show him I'm moving on with my life (and truly believe it myself), I might wind up OK either way.
I've read so many of the success stories in the DR book and on this site (and even with lc4!!) that I know things can turn around. But I feel SO hopeless right now, which is really not my nature. I've got to switch my attitude so I can make some changes for myself ... and HOPE they also benefit my marriage.
RSGG, The only thing that really keeps me going through all of this is the feeling that these experiences are all so patterned.
In your last post, I see a replica of my own situation. My H told me he sees little or no hope of reconciliation, he can't see that things can ever get any better, he loves me but... That I've been so angry, critical and called him names (adulterer) that he can't get over. And part of me agrees with him, but I just want to scream at him to get over it, act like a proper husband and father, and get on with making our life better. And I can't understand why he wouldn't want to.
But yes, in answer to your question, there is hope for our marriages. We can see it in the pattern of other people's experiences going through this ghastly stage of life. And I can see it even from day to day in my own situation.
Things with my H have gotten SO much better since I started trying to follow the DB principles. Granted it's not changing my overall situation as fast as I'd like (I'm heading into my third month of this now), but H is MUCH less angry with me, is coming over daily, offering to help out with chores and errands, talking and sharing things in his life with me more.
And I should say that I don't know whether he's re-started his A. I suspect he may have, but I really don't think it matters much to my goal of trying to get him to come back to our marriage (I never thought I'd be the sort of person who would say this). All I can do is show him what a better life with me would look like (as 25mlc says: "from this day forward").
So, the short answer is that DB does work in our situations. The evidence is there. DB is a targeted plan to deal with a highly patterned set of behaviours on the part of the WAH.
The hardest part of it all, for me, is the time and patience needed. Like you, I struggle every day with wondering what is going on, where my life went, and why H would continue to choose to be away from me and the kids (and I just can't fathom how he can bear to put them through this or be away from them like he is) when things seem to be going so well.
But, people keep telling me that it takes more time and more patience than could ever be imagined, and this is the knowledge that keeps me going. I do feel pretty hopeless from time to time, but I also know that I feel pretty good about things at other times. So, time and patience should take care of those ups and downs and, in the meantime, my goal is to keep the road home paved and smooth.
I'm sorry for the pain you are in! I suggest you channel it into yourself by going to the gym and making yourself look fantastic! It is such a release to beat your body into shape at the gym. It produces endorphins that clear your mind and make you feel more positive. There's also a great side effect- you will start to look like a very hot you! Everyone will notice- including your husband!
That brings me to my next point- become attractive to your husband. Change your hair style - drastically (whatever style is hip and hot). Wear more revealing clothes no matter where you are going. Wear nice undergarments. FEEL good about how you look in the mirror. When you feel good, you will project confidence and be more attractive. Don't get baited into arguments with your H, dodge them. Only use kind words (even though it's hard!). Become a women that other men notice. Believe me, as much as your H will try to pretend he doesn't see the changes, he will start becoming attracted to this mysterious new woman.
As long as you are acting unattractive (name calling, depressed, etc.) he will (surprise! ) find you unattractive! Only do things that put you in the best light possible. Become a woman that men scrabble for, not leave.
I dropped by the boards to check in on my DB friends. How are things going, RSGG?
To address some of your questions from your last post.... Does DB'ing mean your marriage will be saved? Not necessarily. Is there still hope for your marriage? ABSOLUTELY. I think your H is still invested in your marriage, even if it appears to you he has checked out. Look at my case...my H sat me down last April, looked me straight in the eye with NO emotion registering on his face whatsoever and told me he didn't love me, he was seeking a divorce and there was absolutely nothing I can do to change that fact. This was the 3rd time he took me down that road, RSGG. I started out with the same old, same old behaviors and once again, they failed me. We got to the point of him moving out, filing for divorce, me hiring a lawyer, etc. Things finally turned around when I stopped focusing on getting him back and started focusing on making ME better. It's been a long, tough road, but for the first time in a very long time, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Please do your best to detach and work on YOUR goals. I can't stress it enough. Make you better for YOU. Hopefully, your H will wise up to what he's missing out on in you before it's too late. If he doesn't and you do end up getting divorced, well...look how much better you will be for what comes along next in your life.
Know that I'm thinking of you and hoping for the very best in your situation. Update when you can! lc4
