Im just going to give up.

[25yearsmlc]

Dear Rue

As a L I am not going to tell you a thing that sounds like legal advice for a bunch of reasons, including that I want to keep my license. As I said in my LONG post to you, I don't know what state you are in anyhow.

But that raises a point b/c I asked you several questions in my lengthy post that were designed to help you.

You didn't answer one of them....(except that you read the DB books but I'm telling you, it's not showing. What happened to the GAL and the 180s and the 2 traits you were going to work on??)

Rue, if you want help - don't be helpless. No one can rescue you from this.

Read my post to you again and think about it in pieces if you have to.

I can't believe ALL your grown children are in t for this right now...b/c you are?

MOST of your questions are either for your L (please don't let your fears dictate your life....I mean, it's like you'd rather not know the answer b/c you fear asking? Think about how that sounds...)

OR the questions require a crystal ball -we have no idea what OW is like or whether it'll last. Statistics say no. But we don't know what your marriage's issues were either...you don't really say...

OR the answers are already inside you...


Stop letting fear run your life.

PLease re read my post

((( )))

Wow! THank you everyone for the response.

I have read the db books, seen a db coach, but it seems at this point my H just want it to end. In my heart I dont feel this is
really what he wants.

contradictory^^^...

He just got caught so bad he doesnt know how to dig himself out of the hole. To much pride to swallow and he is very narcisictic.


"caught so bad" means what? And does everyone in the family and friend's circle know?

It does make it more difficult for the WAS to return b/c they feel cornered by people judging them or trying to shame and humiliate them.

I'm sure the time I felt tempted to have an affair was when my h was working so much I felt neglected and at the time I felt h was pushing me into the arms of OM.

So if I'd had an affair and then h found out and tried to shame me, I probably would have divorced him to prove myself right, and that I was not being a selfish adulterer but a woman with unmet needs....b/c after all, at the time I had almost totally justified an affair...

Hence my usual advice to tell as few people as possible about an affair.

Also if you or others are challenging his choices you are cementing in his answers by forcing him to defend those choices....FWIW -asking him questions that begin with "why?" or "How can you"? Are designed to make him defensive. Don't bother. It's not going to help YOU.
same for getting "allies to help" -it backfires....Guilt does NOT get them home...


In the earlier months it seemed like I was better, I was out doing things, joined some support groups, (which I still attend), I guess what bother me the most if the process the D is in right now. I dont want to talk about who gets what because to me it means my hope for trying to save this or try to save this is pretty diminished. It a hard pill to swallow.


Responding to what is happening is simply dealing with reality. It does not increase the likelihood of the divorce...

Bottom line is that both parties do NOT have to consent to divorce anymore...so the divorce will continue if ONE partner wants it to,

so you can participate or not.

If you don't, then your h will get more and if he's with OW, SHE will benefit by your paralysis... you really want that?

And Whatever she gets, your boys don't.


My late MIL chose not to participate in her divorce b/c she "just wanted OUT" and she filed for div and told her L to "get it done!"...and she got nothing...

so she went to work at 2 jobs for 27 years, until she got cancer, and died.

My fil is NOW a self made multi millionaire, happily remarried, with several homes. His favorite home is a 10,000 sq ft mansion in Cabo San Lucas with a 270' view...go figure.

Participate in your life. Or watch it go by...



Do these WAS' who have OW really stay in these relationships? I know its a honeymoon phase and all is hunky dory but it isnt LIFE. My H i know misses his children. And Im not sure if he misses me but I got a feeling he does. He just wont say it because to many people know what hes done and he cant face that.

why do so many people know? Stop telling everyone. What happened to the concept of Keeping the Road Home Paved and Smooth" ?

From what you are describing with this catastrophic discovery the whole world knows about, even if your h wanted to return, how could he?

Do you really think you can get past all this, Or is this all just your fears of being alone?

THat is an important issue to address. IOW

Do you believe you and your h could recover from this OR are you just more terrified of the unknown?


I have asked him recently to try therapy. If not for himself, or me or us atleast for our kids. My kids are all in therapy. I to am in therapy twice a week and will be going into more intensive therapy soon.


Stop asking him to try therapy. You are trying to convince him to stay m to you and in his mind now, that is NOT appealing. Also not working...



I have meds i take. H thinks therapy is for bashing and people who are mentally ill which he would tell you he doesnt qualify for. I know if he could just get there and see things in a different way he would come around.

really? How so? THINK BRAVELY NOW AND DIG DEEP...face your fears...

What is different about YOU that would make him believe the marriage can improve?

If you are the same, expect more of the same...sorry but you are resisting change too much. (and ask the doctor about the meds and dosage and try not to be offended by that okay? It's just that you don't sound well.)




I know it may sound to you all like im in my own pity party. Its not what i want to preceive to you. I know I have to get up and move around but my mind is constantly 24/7 on H. Thinking of good time, BAD times, times I know hes cheated, what is he doing? etc. I dont know how to turn that off.


either get a new therapist who helps you change your cognitive behavior (ie how you think b/c right now you have what I'd call a "grief/fear induced thought disorder" and you keep going around the loop and you won't take the exit ramp)

OR discuss this exact issue with your present t and MD...


I am sad but even more scared of a new way of life. To be honest Im not one that likes to be alone and feel I will be. The self -esteem is lacking.

This ^^ is clear. But change is the one certainty in life. How have you adapted to it in life before now? and what can you DO for your self esteem?

See, some people don't GAL b/c they don't yet "feel like it" but that's the thing, you can work "outside in" by

GAL and forcing yourself to go OUT there...and then find that you're glad once you did...Sort of like faking it til you make it but it's real.


How many of you that have responded to me had a good outcome with the spouse coming back? How long was it? Was there a certain thing you did to make them come back?


Did you read my post? It's in the post and my signature block. We reconciled.

RUE, I WANT TO HELP YOU...but

come on, I took a long time to write to you and it's like it went in one ear and out the other...read our posts please...and then process them, take them to heart BEFORE letting yourself panic again...




I hear affairs dont last. I dont know the percentage especially when its out of state. Also and this is quite personal did any one of you have to deal with any kind of addictions. I think there has been a porn addiction in situation with my H. Of course he has denied it. Does this addiction make them seek OW?


ALL of these are questions without good answers. Do you think there is a realistic answer that would stop your obessing? No there is not. It's such a waste of your precious time and energy. GAL Rue...or rue this whole experience...

read Beatrice and Antonia's stories. They are happily single after LONG m's...and they were just as afraid as you.

Or read Brandnewday's story wherein her h left her with 8 kids at home...and came back...

She did not shrivel up and die. She did not let fear run her life. She took care of her kids and they were younger (like mine). My kids went to ONE t appointment...and they are younger than yours now...

I fear you are making it worse for them. For 3 grown men to see a t bc their dad left their mom....are they having to take care of you now? See how unfair that is to them?

Looking forward to your responses.


I'll feel better about responding if I feel heard...

I know you are in pain--I get it-- but if it's not helpful for us to post b/c you repeat almost the same panic stricken paralyzed comments...

then it's not helpful.

What are YOU doing to work on YOU?

Do you understand that at a fundamental level no matter what else is going on with your h

that if HE does not believe he can be happily married to you

then he won't return?

Do you get that?

Okay so, then what is it YOU are doing to change YOU

so that HE can believe in a happy future with you?



As far as today...it was a bad morning. Very teary. I just hate the loneliness. I hate that I cant call him and ask him what he's doing. Im just really scared everyone. This D process is scaring me to death. So if there are any L out there maybe you could explain more of the process to me. I have a good L but he is very intimidating. Doesnt help when im so emotional.

Thank you friends. Hugs to all of you.

No it does not help that you are so emotional you cannot call your L.

I still don't even know where you live so even if i wanted to risk my law license to advise you over the internet, which I don't, I couldn't.

I asked you what state you were in but you let your panicky feelings prevent you from recalling it I guess so you didn't bother answering.

So we literally cannot help you b/c you are being too helpless.

Only YOU can stop that.

Take a breath...calm yourself.

now, please read the post I wrote to you before, again. There were other good ones too.

Let what has already been said sink in. And then answer the questions...

give us the additional information we asked for so we can assist you.

Yes-It does get better.

((( )))

[Rue]

THank you for your honesty and being stern with me. I think thats what I need. So many questions you asked. I will try.

I live in IL.

Im not sure if the following are traits i have tried to change or 180's or a combo: What I have learned is that I loved him the wrong way. Ive learned everyone needs to be loved in their own way. I didnt do that. He was very affectionate. Not me and I know now that I was giving to him what he didnt need but its what I needed and how I needed to be loved. He was definitely a PDA type of guy, not me.

I have started looking for a job.

I have so much more patience than before but maybe thats the meds.

I have changed my appearance. Cut my hair, hi-lighted it, lost weight.

I have told people close to me whether it was family or friends that I loved them and value them for being in my life, something I would have never done before and that included his family. And it feels good to say it.

As far as Dbing, one important thing i think i have done is when we did communicate during our separation I was NOT confrontational and TRIED to let him know I understood his concerns and feelings very briefly without going on and on if he expressed any frustration or anger.

I tried to keep communication minimal.
I stopped texting or emailing him alot. Only for household questions.

If he did text me or email I would wait and not respond immediately.

I have gone dark for along period of time.

As far as GAL. I guess I havent done much with that. I just dont know how to GAL. Thats not a cop out answer it is an honest answer. Ive really never done anything for me. Its always been for my family so Im really uncomfortable in doing things for myself.

My children are in therapy and it was their decision to do so. They have been deeply affected by him leaving and why he left and because he rarely contacts them, and if he does he sets the rules. I dont ask them what they talk about in therapy but Im sure their dad is a frequent topic. They are very angry with him. Me on the other hand cant get mad at him.

There are people know that he left and why. It is mostly my family who has been there to support me and supply comfort. H family also knows. They have been very supportive for me also. As far as friends knowing I dont believe alot of them know. We didnt have a big circle of friends. He probably more so than me because of his work and he im sure he would never tell them what has happened or if he did it wasnt the truth.

As far as what i meant when I said "he got caught bad", I had proof of the OW, which he denied until the day I confronted him. He didnt see that coming when I confronted him with the proof and he walked out the door and didnt look back.

And to be honest, this isnt the first time H has had OW. He always denied any involvement but i know different know.

So ... I must say that in the first quarter of this year I felt alot better than I do know. I really believe that this D process is getting the best of me and the fact that he is happy with someone else and has completely stopped all communication with me.

As far as my L. I do trust him I just have a hard time with his "BED SIDE MANNER". He's not the most compassionate guy there is but then he told me hes not a therapist. He is very
intimidating in my opinion but I know he is there to protect me and help me. I am fearing that this is near the end of my M because we have to decide on who gets what. I am having a real hard time with that. To me that means it really over and I held on to that ever slight piece of hope that this D wouldnt happen.

Im sure I didnt answer everything so please ask me more.

I do have one question. How does he see changes if there is no communication between us or we havent seen each other in 3 months? How does he see it? We've been dark for the last 2 months.

Thank you again.

((( )))s

[NorthStar]

Hello 25 - we've never communicated directly but there are more similarities than differences on this journey so the advice you brilliant people give others is invaluable across a wide range of DBing issues. Even though I am further along than Rue, there are points you are making in your responses that still resonate with me. Thank you.
Rue - hang in there. I hope today is better.

[Rue]

Nothstar, thank you for your concern. Today is not better. Im really having a major breakdown. Im listening and hearing everything that is being said on here but my heart is so broken. I feel I have failed in so many ways.

Im really scared mainly of the unknown.

A friend of mine told me lastnight that I dont want to be married to a man like my H. That how could I ever take him back because of what he has done. I know she is right because of the facts of our relationship but my heart feels differently. I dont know if that makes sense but thats how I can explain it.

I feel so much guilt. That I didnt do enough or love H or show my love for H enough thats why he strayed.

I do know that he rarely told me when anything was bothering him or if he didnt like something in our M. Rarely in almost 30 years. He kept everything in. He avoided conflict. I on the other hand would express my opinion and/or give a cold shoulder for awhile. I feel so much guilt.

Anyway...thanks for asking how I am. I hope you are well.

[Rue]

25yearsmlc, I just reread all the posts you have written to me. Please believe me that I want help and need help and advice. I am on that loop and cant find the exit ramp. I know I am.

Oh and just to clarify I have 2 D's and 1 S.

I guess im not making alot of sense. My H never told me he was unhappy. Never. He has told others he has been unhappy for 10 years. Others not me. He left 10 years ago for 3 months but i think that was his MLC. Or the L told him to go back home because it was going to cost him to much because our kids were little.

At that time I sought and went to therapy. He went once. I continued. My H has previously told me he is a methodical thinker and it takes him a long time to make decisions. I dont know if thats why it has taken him 10 years to leave. But then
he never told me he was unhappy.

Getting back to my children. Yes they are adults. My adult D's were the ones who told me about this current OW. They found out. Something they didnt want to have to ever tell their mom. They are in T because they were very close to him and he has chosen to only talk to them on his terms. They will not agree to that. My son started T because he needed to sort out his own relationship with his dad and because it started to affect his own marriage.

I cant stress to you enough how much I want to move past this. Believe me i hate my life the way it is now. I want to be happy again. My kids want me to be happy again but I hurt so bad. And if I can be honest with you and this probably will make no sense it seems like if I GAL it means Ive given up on H and our M. That probably doesnt make sense right? But thats how I feel.

In IL where I live, it is a no fault state. So if he wants a D he can have one. I have contested it because I dont want the D. I wanted to see FIRST if anything was fixable. It doesnt matter what I think or want. Its just to easy to end a M.

And to end, my H has some issues. I know this. He has cheated numerous times and denied it, i believe there is a porn addiction, and some other issues. I just wanted so much for him to get help. Is it wrong for me to want him to get himself some help? Yes I know I cant force him. It has been thought he has NPD because all the boxes can be checked. Unfortunately people with NPD rarely seek help because they feel they do nothing wrong.

Again I dont know why I love and miss him like I do. But the fact is I do. This is where Im having a hard time.

Please believe I am trying to do the best I can. Yes I have been diagnosed with severe depression. I dont want that to be an excuse but it does hinder things.

Thank you 25 for all your help. You seem like you would be a great mentor. I wish we could talk.

Rue

[Queen_of_Swords]

Again I dont know why I love and miss him like I do. But the fact is I do. This is where Im having a hard time.

Hi Rue.

I think we've all been there. Still in love and loving our spouses, bewildered, and wondering what the h3ll is going on.

Rue, since your H never said he was unhappy, you had absolutely no clue that anything in your behaviour was wrong.
Therefore, you also have an image in your mind that things were if not perfect, at least all right.

Your perception of reality Rue, has just bumped up against a fact that your H perceived your lives differently and you can't resolve the conflict between the two.

I've been there myself. Still am some days.

Fact is no two people will see a situation in the same way.
Our experience is different, the eyes we see through are different, the information gets filtered and sorted differently in all of us.

There is fact and there is perception and often there is often argument on what the facts are!

If you can wrap your mind around this, you can then understand that your picture of what you believed was true about your M and your H was distorted. For you, that means a lack of information from your H.

You still love him based in part upon those distortions.

Also if you're anything like I was, you're also questioning what was based in truth/reality and how much of your life was based on lie/erroneous perception.
You love him, but in my opinion, you're now questioning that love and the basis for it. That's hard and painful.

There will be peace soon Rue once you figure out what the differences are between the love you feel, the ideas of what you think love should be, and what unconditional/healthy love really looks like.

(((Hugs)))

[Rue]

Thank you Queen_of_Swords.

Today is awful. I really dont want to handle this anymore. It doesnt help to get a bill in the mail from my L for 4,000.

I knew there were problems in my M when I suspected he was either talking to OW or seeing OW in the past (not the present OW). Of course I was the crazy one and it wasnt what i thought it was is what i would hear from H. Maybe i feel so much guilt because I knew deep down I wasnt crazy and did nothing about it but confront and go silent for awhile. Maybe I shouldve told him to leave and not look back. Im just not that kind of person. So now Im suffering for it.

To be honest....if he hadnt been caught this time, because I had concrete evidence, I think he would still be here. Probably lying, and cheating. What is wrong with me? He is the only man Ive ever had in my life.

Tomorrow is my BDay and Monday is my H. This is the first time in 34 years we have not celebrated together. Its going to be hard I think.

I read the book the five love languages and how I wish I wouldve read that along long time ago. It is in that book that I realized I was not fulfilling his needs and the way he needed to be loved. I dont know why I want another chance I really dont. He is a very sweet, kind, compassionate H that provided so well for his family. But yet their were many secrets and lies.

Thank You again for responding.

Rue, ((( )))s

I was so afraid he would leave and I didnt want that. Maybe after a while he knew how he could get away with it and wait it out. I really did believe this man loved me. Did I always show him no. He is much more affectionate than me. Did that make him turn to others that gave him the affection he needed.

[Rue]

Bad Day.