Back home - but for how long?

[Accuray]

Nice Grocerykartman, well put!

NYCPeter, this is easy for all of us to say, and hard for all of us to do. It goes against what you want in the moment every time. It's the opposite of what you want to do.

From my perspective, you are trying so hard and suffering so much, you just want a little back. You want a little acknowledgement, a little respect, a little appreciation. The longer you go without getting it, the more you want it, you get desperate. It would be so damn easy for your W to just give you a little bit of what you need, yet she doesn't. Then, when you get a little opening to make a comment, or to try to make your W feel badly in some way, you feel you need to do it, because your brain believes you'll get some relief and feel better after you see the reaction it provokes.

What your rational mind realizes is that it doesn't work -- that remorse, appreciation, respect, whatever it was you wanted to provoke never comes. You get the opposite reaction, the hole gets deeper, then you feel worse and want it more, it's a negative cycle.

There's no easy answer to this, you are fighting being human. Know that and accept that you are not broken, you're a human in an extremely difficult and challenging situation.

If your W does give you a little, you are driven to desperately seek more, that makes her run and makes it harder for her to give you a little again. It deepens your hurt because you saw a glimpse of light, and then it was snuffed out.

My DB coach told me yesterday that another exercise you can try is to assume the best intentions. If your W says something that you could interpret as positive or negative, interpret it as positive, always assume the positive, it will affect your outlook, it's an "act as if".

The other thing she said is to treat your W as your best friend. The thing with a best friend is that the relationship has no expectations. If they help you, you are thankful, but if they don't, that's ok too, because they're just a friend, you don't expect, you appreciate. By the same token, if a friend says something nice to you, you don't make a big deal about it, you might give it a slight acknowledgement, or you may not -- you may change the subject instead of delving into an R discussion.

I have been trying this with my W, and it is surprisingly effective, because it takes the spotlight off! Very hard to do given how you feel, but effective

--Accuray

[Harrier]

i'm sure I will get slammed but I think your DB coach as a seriously warped view of a "best friend" An casual acquaintance maybe, but a best friend?

This is more than once that I've heard a DB coach espouse this...it's effed up.

[NYCPeter]

Thank you for the thoughtful responses - I feel so immature and inexperienced to the wisdom I receive on this board.

I like the idea of writing things down and rationalizing them.

GK - I believe I still am in major disbelief that I am in the middle of all this.

I'd get good signals and positive vibes and then it would be back to her doing disrespectful things as soon as I thought we could possibly be getting somewhere. One step forward, two steps back. I'd go berserk when she regressed, because of that.

This describes exactly what is happening. I would love to be calmer about all of this and accept the new reality.

Thanks for all the support - need to figure out some new GAL activities and work on the 180's.

[workinghardguy]

Thanks for the post above Accuray... those words are what I really needed to read today. Helped me put in perspective exactly what's running around in my own head. I've been mad last night and today. Mad about working so damn hard to a) work on me, b) work on us with no reciprocation, and c) keep the house/family unit functioning and to not get a peep of recognition really hurts.

[Accuray]

NP Workinghardguy,

I think there are two reasons people come to these boards, one is for advice and one is for support. Sometimes you get more of the former than the latter, and it can definitely be tough love, so I think it's good to step back once in a while and acknowledge that we're all going through this at the same time and it's terrible and hard. Most of us know we're screwing up when we do it, and know what we should be doing instead but it's a very difficult place to get. We just have to get up, dust off, and get back on the horse because that's all we can do.

One useful thing I read or someone told me is that your spouse "knows". Although they won't acknowledge, and pretend not to see or feel, they do. If you ask for something, and they heard you ask, they know you want it, so asking again isn't going to help. We just have to keep remembering that they know, and they feel more than they let on, and take comfort in that -- if they aren't deaf they heard you the first time, etc.

Accuray

[Accuray]

Harrier,

Tell me more about your "best friend" comment above.

Accuray

[Harrier]

I guess I see a "best" Friend. What you/she seem to describe is a good friend.

First and foremost my W is my best friend. But beyond that I've had relationships with a few people for most of my adult life.

My Twin brother
A friend that I've known since Jr. High
A friend I've known since elementary school
A friend I've known since high school.


All of these guys are really good friends and have been part of my life longer than my W. I don't "expect" tangible anything from our relationships, but I know I'd get their support, encouragement, etc. anytime I needed it. (I guess that is an expectation) and I would do the same for them.

If fact, I frequently give them legal advice. I do think there is a level of mutual respect, admiration and maybe even some expectations. If one of my friends told me something really nice, I wouldn't just brush it off because of our relationship. It would mean A LOT to me because he has been there through most everything.

If I asked my friend for help and he brushed me off. I would be a little upset - again because we've had this relationship for years and years. In fact, I had a falling out with one of my great friends over an issue, but I didn't just not care one way or the other.

Yeah we don't talk bout our friend Rs a lot, but we have at times. My great friends are dear to me and I love them as brothers. I just felt you and the coach trivialized that notion. I think that's why language is important here.

I understand what she's/you are saying but I wouldn't use the term "best friend." Maybe acquaintance

[Accuray]

Harrier,

I hear what you're saying. Earlier in my process when things were really bad the DB coach said to use the "stranger standard", so I feel good we're up to best friend.

I agree with you, I do have expectations of my best friends, and I never want to have sex with them, so this relationship cannot be the same as that.

My W felt that my expectations of her are too high, that she will always fall short, and she resents when I tell her I appreciate something she did or said. I think the DB coach's point was to dial my expectations back, but not all the way back to casual acquaintance, and not to get so invested in my W's efforts because shining a spotlight on them makes her uncomfortable.

I felt this relates to NYCPeter, because like me he pursues, and let's his W know when she does not meet his expectations. That puts pressure on her, makes her responsible for his happiness in her mind, and therefore makes her retreat.

I think that is the DB coach's point. We have very high expectations of our spouse, and maybe slightly l

[Accuray]

Lower expectations of our best friends. I don't think she or I meant to trivialize what our best friends bring to the table.

Accuray

[Harrier]

I get the expectations part of it...it's been my life for the past almost year now.

The wording just hit me wrong, not the idea.