Saving the M and caring for a baby

[25yearsmlc]

wow, what a tough situation.

I am not sure there's a perfect answer May, but then again, that means it's hard to be totally wrong too.

My gut says you are right; it's too soon.

Plus the "loose ends" of not feeling attracted to you

(SIDENOTE-- I just have to yell this once. "OMG, You weird jerk - OUCH!!!" There, got that out).

Also, are you reassured he won't flip out again? How could he give you that reassurance anyhow?

It would take TIME...and IC, and he IS getting c,

but btw---who "Brainwashed" him that somehow pregnancy was the end to his life? Can we go punch that guy in the face...(metaphorically speaking of course)

IF your h's growth continues...he's probably doing as well as he can, given where he started.

QUESTIONS:

1) If you do not move back in, "the world" will know. How will HE look to others and does that matter to him?

2) If it does matter to him, does THAT matter to you?

OTOH, you were already gone awhile. Any public pressure or him looking bad has mostly happened already, correct? His family knows?

3) Who else, if anyone, even knows you two had issues since/about the baby?

4) Notice that the balance of power has shifted so that you are now in the shoes of the WAS...has HE said anything about that? Think he's noticed? (I do).

alright, the other comment I have is, FWIW, the way you describe his entreaties to you to stay, were a tad underwhelming.

It was more than a mere probe, certainly yes. But he's not sweeping you off your feet with confident reassurances...you might need that before saying yes, down the road. (I sure would like HIM to be sure and show it.)


RE your forgiving him....mostly all your work to do. If you decide it's not in you, then don't waste anymore time. Staying together AND being miserable is the worst choice all round...

but If you need something from him to help with the forgiveness work, and it IS work (e.g., more calls from work, fewer trips with hosebag OW, etc) you let him know so HE can own some of the effort. He does have to earn your trust, and you his.

But he cannot fear that you'll hold OW OR his past year over his head like the sword of Damacles...or that you'll throw it in his face when you get really mad...even 40 years from now, once you let it go, YOU GOTTA LET IT GO...
and I know, it's no small feat.

In sum, I agree with your analysis.

Not much downside in slowing things down

but I see a big downside to you moving in too soon....

You DO have to keep reassuring him this is not punitive and that it could lead you two to be closer--

but don't forget the reassurances YOU need from him either.

Hang in there May, and don't forget,

this IS progress!

((( )))

[~ kd ~]

We get insurance all the time... there's always an argument that why bother getting insurance when you never seem to need it...

but there's the rub... what about the time that maybe you don't have it and you DO need it...

My personal opinion? Buy the insurance; get the apartment... I hope you don't need it for long, but it's a great insurance... Even if you only use it for a few months, or one of you needs a "time out" and goes to it as a safe place from time to time, if you do end up back at home...

[KenF]

Great! now he's challenging your expectations. haha funny how the pendulum swings.

its all good dueinMay. this is what you've been wanting to hear. relish it for a minute or two before you doubt yourself/him. allow yourself to enjoy this for what it is.

He wants You home.

from where you were to where you are - is incredible progress. amazing.



dont worry about the 'brainwashed and crazy' thing too much. i think everyone freaks a bit for the first one. i know i did. doesn't mean i dont love the kid any less, its just a huge life changing event that has no out clause. i think it should freak you out. if you're not freaked out, you're not paying attention.

guys are mechanical - how are we going to afford this? can i make it work.

women are emotional - how much am i going to love this, cant wait to play with it.

you played house, you've practiced this, you've gone over this scenario before. us? not so much.

he's a good dad, thats the important part. and he has been making great progress.

and i dont mean to minimize what you felt while he freaked and did the wrong things. your feelings were hurt, and thats all valid. you'll need to find it in yourself to forgive.


i get the feeling he's holding back. i think he's more attracted to you than he lets on, and wants you home more than he's saying.

and i think he's doing this because he doesnt want to come across as pressuring you too much. and maybe he's scared you'll reject him. could it be he's worried about being seen as vulnerable?


as much as i would love to be able to say you should move back, i dont think this is right. you're not ready. i feel you still have a lot of pain and forgiveness to work through. but you're both heading in the right direction.

[Eryam]

You all are so wonderful. It boggles my mind how much you all have helped me and I've never met you in person. I could pass you on the street and never know....

So, MC went pretty well. The T totally agrees that I should not move in at this point. H make a big stink about it. The T and I both said over and over that it's a step in the right direction and is not meant to punish him and that we still have a lot of things to work on before I move in. He's just not seeing it right now. She and I both suggested he talk it over with his IC. He's just freaking out about it.

I even told him I love him, I want to be his wife, but at this point there is still a lot of work we need to do. I could move back in now and things would pick up right where they left off... but clearly that wasn't working for us. Even if he hadn't been "crazy and brainwashed" we each had things tugging at us to which we turned a blind eye (P.S. he's also irritated with those who contributed to the brainwashing. Primarily male friends of his that told him that life was over after you have children).

When he said he didn't understand why I didn't want to move home if things are going so well I said, "well, you haven't told me you love me, it doesn't appear you're ready to tell me that, you don't wear your wedding ring (this was always something important to him), and you said there's no 'spark'"
H: Well, maybe there's a little spark....
M: Ok, but you still won't initiate anything sexual with me (SIDE NOTE: He's like REALLY freaked out about my new role as a mom. It's like he thinks my boobs are going to squirt him in the face if he looks at them much less try to touch them).
H: Well why should I if you won't move home?

I refused to get into the circular reasoning argument with him.

Another reason I'm not ready to move home. When he gets backed into a corner he still becomes super bullheaded and irrational. Again, not looking to have 2 children at this point in my life....

Speaking of children....

I did bring that up as another issue. He had said in recent months that he didn't want any more kids and if we did, it wouldn't be for at least another 5 years. Well, in my opinion, that wouldn't give D the full benefit of a sibling. In birth order research, it is believed that children with more than 5 years apart in age virtually "start over" the birth order cycle. So if there's 5 years or more between child one and child two, then it's almost like having two only-child children. And they don't really have a "typical" sibling relationship.

Anyhow, I brought this up again because it's a major thing to me. He gave the same answer again. I gave the same research driven argument stated above. He gave me the weirdest response:

"Well, if there were a way to combine my sperm and your egg, but you not actually go through the pregnancy, then that would be ok I guess."

How f-ing weird is that? I had physically the easiest pregnancy ever. The doctor literally told me "you are made for making babies". I brought this up to the MC. She asked him if it made him uncomfortable seeing my body change so radically. He just kind of mumbled that it did.

The biggest thing in MC also had to do with the pregnancy. I talked about how I want to cry when I see pregnant women (and thank you, GM, for the validation. It's crappy you had to go through BS during your pregnancy too, but I'm glad we've got each other in the crappy-preggo-club) and told her that was a major reason that I didn't want to move home yet is I still need to do work to get over that loss. I said I still have not mourned it, and then the T and I noticed H beginning to tear up:
T: H, you look like you're tearing up. How do you feel about what she's saying?
H: I feel awful I put her through that. But I missed it too.
M: You missed what? The pregnancy?
H: Yeah.
T: So you're saying it was a loss for you too?
H: :::shakes head yes:::
T: You wish you had been able to experience it too?
H: :::shakes head and cries:::
T: I think that's a really big breakthrough that you shared that.
M: Yes, I had no idea. I had never thought about it being a loss for you too, but it was.

And it made me think back to when we were talking about kids seriously and every time he would see a pregnant woman, he would point her out to me and smile.

And then he said he wanted to have another baby in 2-3 years.

And if all goes according to plan, I do too.

It's like CS said, I just need more time and consistency to equal the amount of trust I would like to have in him before I move home. I'm a pretty forgiving, trusting person. So I don't think this will take too much time (at least not compared to the average person given the circumstances).

I at least want to hear that he loves me. And it's not like he's one of those "I never say those words" kind of man. He used to tell me all the time.

I want that again.

[25yearsmlc]

sounds great May...I mean, given the givens.

but fyi, my 3 kids are 12 years apart with the 1st 2 born in 3 years.

The older two are close to d14 and have been for awhile even though s25 only lived at home with d14 for 7 years in all.

They play online games twice a week as he lives across the country and his roomates think she's hilarious. D22 takes her to her apartment (the dorm when she was in college) and they have sleepovers and

I'm 6 of 9 kids...most of us are very close.

I know you're a t, but maybe you Don't need to let books "and the research" tell you what to do quite so much.

Frankly, I wish I'd had another one, a few years ago. So that would have been 4 in 20 years...like my grandmother did.

Back to you
all in all, things are going as fast as they can in a healthy way.

I'm glad he's freaking out that you won't move back

but not to punish him, but to KNOW he wants it!


As for his pouting...just wish we had the hug/slap button on this site so we could click it, and hug you and slap him around a little.

But I guess life is doing that to him for us...

I'm struck by his tears at the pregnancy. Struck me as guilt but...I could be wrong.

Hang in there May as usual, you model working the program well.

((( )))

[KenF]

i have to chime in with 25yearsmlc, my sisters and i are 2 years apart, 1 older, 1 younger. my brother is 10 years younger than i am. there are definite benefits to both. my brother is wise beyond his years, and always was. he grew up trying to catch his siblings who were years ahead of him.

research and studies can give you guidelines, but every situation is unique. use the knowledge. dont over analyze.

but you're doing great. and he is too, always be quick to recognize that.

[Eryam]

Thanks, guys. Yeah, I'm aware of siblings being able to enjoy each other despite large age differences, it just happens that in H and my families there seems to be a big issue with it. But I know that age is not the only factor in the strained relationships. Sister and I grew up hating each other and we were only 4 years apart. We didn't become close until I moved away for college. On the flip side, H was close with his brother who is 6 years his senior, until his brother got a car and was too cool to hang out with his younger siblings and now H can't stand him. H has never liked his sister, and she's only 2 years younger than him.

So yeah, definite exceptions to the rules. I do tend to overanalyze. I had always told myself the marker to tell me if I'm ready for another child isn't necessarily dependent upon my child's age, but her level of development. I personally don't want 2 in diapers at the same time. As soon as D is reasonably potty trained (I know occasional accidents will still happen) and can follow brief verbal instructions, I will probably be ready for kiddo #2.

All that dependent upon things working out with H, of course.

I don't know who all reads my sitch on a regular basis (I know there are folks who read and read and never/rarely post... I do that a lot too), but to any new DBers out there.... one of my biggest words of advice is be careful who you tell. Obviously make the support network you need to be healthy during this difficult, awful time. But if people don't NEED to know about this, don't tell them. They will not understand why you are "putting up with" your spouse's crap. They will give you very non-DB advice. And then if things do turn around, they will not be so forgiving.

I've made it a point to tell as few people as possible about this (especially ALL the gory details), but there are some that still found out through the grapevine. Extended family members are, to put it lightly, livid with my H. And I'm sure they think I'm a fool to even fathom the thought of staying married to him. I'm just concerned about how this will strain relationships in the future.

I know I can't control what they think or how they feel, but it blows knowing that if they had just been kept in the dark, they wouldn't be potentially hating him for the remainder of our days. I know I felt that way about my best friend's ex. He screwed her over again and again, and from the very first mess up I wanted him out of the picture. I feel like it really effected our relationsihp.

I just don't want that for H. Or for you and your spouse if you reconcile.

I often think about how we're going to tell D about this one day. When should we? How should we? I don't think this should be kept secret. I know H is ok with this (we've discussed it). I had once said to my IC if I come out on the other side of this still sane and married, I should write a book. If only so other people who go through this while pregnant will know they are not alone.

Thank goodness I had this message board. Because without it, I would have felt even more isolated.

I can't be the only one out there. I know I'm not. I don't want any other woman feeling alone during that time of life either.

[KenF]

when i was going through my situation, everyone knew, everyone always knows, people love gossip and the stories always spread and get exaggerated.

you do the best you can, and those people who are really not involved, you cant worry about.

there may come a time you may have to explain it to the extended family so they understand. whether they accept is up to them.

i was told many stories of couples being separated, and working it out. its much more common than you may realize. these are people you would never imagine. only difference is that back then the grapevine didn't work as fast. people may have been more discrete.

but as quickly as it spreads, it'll be forgotten.

as far as telling your little one, why?

when i'm angry i think about telling mine about what her mom and OM did. but thats for my "benefit" not hers, thats about revenge.

maybe when she's older and needs to hear a story about relationships and how not to do things, or in your case, how to do things. then it can be told as a lesson. but i dont see it as a "Honey, sit down, we need to tell you something" type discussion.

but life will throw you bigger curveballs than this. you two are young, you'll have more challenges.

[Eryam]

Yes, I was thinking of it more as a lesson in a since. I actually credit me not totally losing it during this whole ordeal to my dad. He once told me that he was not excited at all about being a dad and it wasn't until he held me for the first time that he was really all about it. So helped keep me sane.

I still think I want to write about this someday. I know I'm not the only one who's experienced this. I've already found people on here.

I spent the whole weekend at the house. We dropped off D with my mom on Saturday so we could go to a football party. I got pretty tipsy. We had a lot of fun. H was a little annoying on the drive back to pick up D, but I managed to keep my mouth shut. He was purposefully annoying though.

I'm not a fan of this particular atribute. Sometimes I feel like he treats me more like a sister than a wife.

Anyhow, the weekend was pretty successful. I can tell H is trying. He's cleaning the house more often, playing with D as much as possible, and trying to be kind to me.

I did have a hard time last night though. Little things remind me of the really crappy times. Do you know how many songs/shows feature L.A.? Lots. And the pictures I had found of him and inappropriate coworker were from the Super Bowl. So every time we see the Packers (H's fav team), it reminds me of those. So last night during the game I just began to tear up. H asked about it. Asked if I wanted to talk about it. I said no. He pushed a little harder and I gave in. He said he was really sorry and offered me a hug. He asked when it was going to get better.

I said I didn't know. But I knew that this was one of the reasons I'm not ready to move home.

I assured him that it has gotten a lot better. I'm not thinking about those things every moment of every day. But it still hurts when I do think about it. And the future scares me. And if I wake up in the middle of the night and he's gone to the restroom, I'm afraid he's left and won't come back.

I'm just not ready.

And he still hasn't told me he loves me. I guess one could argue that he has in other "love langauges" by doing actions that he knows are important to me. But he knows that words are important to me too.

I don't know.

I know I could move in now and things would be ok. But I want better than ok.

I called the electric company and they'll be setting up my account in time for my move in on Saturday. I haven't found a TV/internet provider yet.

Sister comes home Monday. Yay! And D rolled over from back to front this weekend AND sat alone for more than 5 minutes for the first time. She's doing so great. I have an amazing little girl.

[KenF]

"And he still hasn't told me he loves me. I guess one could argue that he has in other "love langauges" by doing actions that he knows are important to me. But he knows that words are important to me too."

i'm guessing that he feels this would be pressure. as everyone around here will tell you, putting that kind of pressure on someone is a sure way to drive them away.

had you ever said you dont know if you can trust his words?

"actions not words" "words are cheap"

you don't know what type of advice he is getting. for all you know he's one of the other posters on here.

but seriously, its about you still. you'll need to create new memories to drown out the bad. you'll need to figure out how to forgive.

and i have no advice for that, i couldnt do it.