OW called our house

[OmegaZed]

Best of luck Endeavour on all.

Just read through your sitch as I tend to do on this board and I am amazed at your strength and resolve.

You'll make it through

[Endeavour]

Thanks, DG. I just want you to be happy too. ((()))

OmegaZed, I appreciate the support. I'll have to read your sitch soon.

Anyway, I thought I'd check in. H and I have been spending a lot of time together, just talking, connecting and surprisingly...um...doing a lot of ML. I never thought that would happen so soon considering that for weeks, I couldn't even hug him.

But we have had many very open, honest and sometimes painful discussions about where things went wrong and I can honestly say I understand why he had the A. And that as hard as it is to admit, that I bear a lot of responsibility myself. Not that I am to blame but that I now understand how much I hurt him.

However, H has said he in no way blames me and doesn't want me to take it on any of the blame because he was not meeting my needs either and that he should have had to courage to speak to me about what he was feeling before doing something so selfish and disgusting.

But sadly, I do get it.


H admitted that for years before all of this happened, he felt unloved, unattractive and rejected. He believed he cared more about me than I did about him. Looking back, his feelings were and are legitimate because I was contemplating divorce for a long time before I started educating myself about D. I believe my disconnect was because I didn't feel like I could be myself with him, nor did I feel truly respected as a person. H has always been very focused on my physical appearance. While it's nice to have your H think you're beautiful and incredibly sexy, I began to feel that all he valued me for was my looks. It left me feeling very empty and I withdrew from him and our M. H assures me this was never the case but we've discussed many incidents that led me to this mistaken belief.

In recent years, we became nothing more than roommates who rarely had sex (months and months would go by) and when we did, I really wasn't present and H felt unwanted. He said eventually his resentment built up until he wanted to punish me for years of rejection.

He has cried many tears over the last couple weeks because he said if he just would have put his ego aside and talked to me openly and honestly, then our M wouldn't be in such turmoil. He said the A was always just about being wanted but that he truly wanted the "wanting" to come from me.

During the months since the bomb, he said he also wishes he would have just said that the real issue was that he felt unattractive and unloved but that he felt silly and petty for having an A over wanting some attention so he made it about all these other exaggerated reasons which explains why most of the time I thought he was crazy.

He broke down in tears and told me that it was never ever about the ow and that she could have been anyone, and that it was always about me and if at anytime I would have just said, I love you and I want you, the A would have been done. In the end, it was my DB'ing that softened his heart and that's when his feelings of anger and resentment towards me started to fade. However, sadly in an effort not to pursue, I never told H I loved him or wanted him in the months following the bomb, nor had I said it a year or more prior to the bomb. He said he knew I wanted the M after the first bomb which surprised him, but he felt that I only wanted it for the kids and because I felt D was wrong, and not because I was truly in love with him.

We have spent many a night reading Passionate Marriage together and discussing our needs and how rejected we have both felt. That we allowed anger, resentment and fear to prevent us from being truly present with each other.

As for crazy ow, we received a couple hang-ups and a strange text to land-line message so we think she's still messing with me. However, she has not contacted H directly as he has given me access to his cell phone, email, and he accounts for his whereabouts at all times with frequent texts and photos. He is definitely following the transparency rules to a T.

He also plans to write ow a letter this week and tell her their A was the biggest mistake of his life, and that she was simply a poor replacement for me. He's also going to tell her he will never have anything to do with her ever again, even if I D him so don't hold out any hope for his return. He is going to make it clear that his feelings for her were a facade based on lies and deceit and anger towards me. That none of it was real and that if she ever contacts any of us again, that he will get a restraining order against her.

He also told me that he is madly and passionately in love with me and realizes he always has been. He just pushed down all those feelings because of his anger.

Retrovaille is in 10 days...The follow-up sessions are at a church 10 minutes from our home.

And we are both committed to MC. H has also said he's going to seek IC for his anger issues because he will never let his anger hurt me again.

I never thought I could forgive an A and I know we have a very long way to go...

But we have both have hope for our M.

And that's all I can ask for at this moment.

[JustStunned]

Thank You! (())

[ncl]

Hey sweet friend. I'm glad to know that things are going well in your reconciliation. You are the real DB champ! I know you guys can make it! Keep up the good work. We are all pulling for you!

One thought regarding the letter to OW...it might be better that he just end all contact with her period...no letter, no more texts, emails, phone calls, etc. If she's starting to back off, a letter may stir her up again. Some crazies see ANY contact (even if it's negative in nature) as a sign of interest. Just something the two of you may consider and/or discuss with a MC before he sends it. It may be very freeing, though, for him to write the letter and then just destroy it.

I'm looking forward to hearing about Retrovaille! I hope it's a great experience for the two of you!

xo, lc4

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks, DG. I just want you to be happy too. ((()))

OmegaZed, I appreciate the support. I'll have to read your sitch soon.

Anyway, I thought I'd check in. H and I have been spending a lot of time together, just talking, connecting and surprisingly...um...doing a lot of ML. I never thought that would happen so soon considering that for weeks, I couldn't even hug him.

But we have had many very open, honest and sometimes painful discussions about where things went wrong and I can honestly say I understand why he had the A. And that as hard as it is to admit, that I bear a lot of responsibility myself. Not that I am to blame but that I now understand how much I hurt him.


I LOVE YOU FOR SAYING THIS....

just b/c the LBSer is here, does not make us the "right" one. And that is DAMN tough to admit.

[b]
However, H has said he in no way blames me and doesn't want me to take it on any of the blame because he was not meeting my needs either and that he should have had to courage to speak to me about what he was feeling before doing something so selfish and disgusting.

But sadly, I do get it.
[/b]

great and balanced insights...healthy...good solid hard WORK.. BRAVELY DONE!!



---Looking back, his feelings were and are legitimate because I was contemplating divorce for a long time before I started educating myself about D. I believe my disconnect was because I didn't feel like I could be myself with him, nor did I feel truly respected as a person. H has always been very focused on my physical appearance. While it's nice to have your H think you're beautiful and incredibly sexy, I began to feel that all he valued me for was my looks.---


MORE GOOD HARD TO DO-WORK....

--- roommates who rarely had sex (months and months would go by) and when we did, I really wasn't present and H felt unwanted. He said eventually his resentment built up until he wanted to punish me for years of rejection.

He has cried many tears over the last couple weeks because he said if he just would have put his ego aside and talked to me openly and honestly, then our M wouldn't be in such turmoil. He said the A was always just about being wanted but that he truly wanted the "wanting" to come from me.

During the months since the bomb, he said he also wishes he would have just said that the real issue was that he felt unattractive and unloved but that he felt silly and petty for having an A over wanting some attention so he made it about all these other exaggerated reasons which explains why most of the time I thought he was crazy.

INTERESTING^^^...& believable. I wonder how common this is...a lot I bet.


---- In the end, it was my DB'ing that softened his heart and that's when his feelings of anger and resentment towards me started to fade.

wow...

However, sadly in an effort not to pursue, I never told H I loved him or wanted him in the months following the bomb, nor had I said it a year or more prior to the bomb. He said he knew I wanted the M after the first bomb which surprised him, but he felt that I only wanted it for the kids and because I felt D was wrong, and not because I was truly in love with him.

We have spent many a night reading Passionate Marriage together and discussing our needs and how rejected we have both felt. That we allowed anger, resentment and fear to prevent us from being truly present with each other.

As for crazy ow, we received a couple hang-ups and a strange text to land-line message so we think she's still messing with me.

Hate to say this but I pity her.

Maybe the chemo and radiation made her nuttier. Honestly, my mil was definitely damaged mentally by hers.

He also plans to write ow a letter this week and tell her their A was the biggest mistake of his life, and that she was simply a poor replacement for me. He's also going to tell her he will never have anything to do with her ever again, even if I D him so don't hold out any hope for his return. He is going to make it clear that his feelings for her were a facade based on lies and deceit and anger towards me. That none of it was real and that if she ever contacts any of us again, that he will get a restraining order against her.

if that's what it takes, then so be it. Your family has to come first. God help hers...


He also told me that he is madly and passionately in love with me and realizes he always has been. YAY...

He just pushed down all those feelings because of his anger.

Retrovaille is in 10 days...The follow-up sessions are at a church 10 minutes from our home.

What? 10 minutes? Dang...the convenience of yours makes me jealous. I hope you get as much out of it as we did. Give it the whole time and beyond

b/c it IS a process that generates growth in spurts. At least it did for us.


And we are both committed to MC. H has also said he's going to seek IC for his anger issues because he will never let his anger hurt me again.

I never thought I could forgive an A and I know we have a very long way to go...

But we have both have hope for our M.

And that's all I can ask for at this moment.

beautiful...thank you.

Keep us posted...

[jbnati]

Hello E - I am glad to hear things really seem to be heading down the right path for you and your H. It's been a hard road to get there but I sincerely hope all of this is worth it. It sounds like some really good things are on the horizon for you.

I am going to agree with lc4 - maybe no contact at all with OW is better than a letter.

[25yearsmlc]

and End

as you probably know, more hard stuff is around the corner. Wanting to forgive is a real start

but it's only the beginning. And it's crucial you recall your part in this, so that it goes both ways.

Retrovaille and it's follow up program are SO helpful to the long term approach and success of this...So, keep at this.

expect some bumps in the road, and some twists and turns, but it does get smoother.

How are the kids?

[Endeavour]

Thank You! (())

I'm not sure what you are thanking me for but I appreciate the hug. ((()))

One thought regarding the letter to OW...it might be better that he just end all contact with her period...no letter, no more texts, emails, phone calls, etc. If she's starting to back off, a letter may stir her up again. Some crazies see ANY contact (even if it's negative in nature) as a sign of interest. Just something the two of you may consider and/or discuss with a MC before he sends it. It may be very freeing, though, for him to write the letter and then just destroy it.

I'm looking forward to hearing about Retrovaille! I hope it's a great experience for the two of you!

xo, lc4

lc, you might be right about the letter. I think it's more about closure though and making sure ow understands that he never loved her and that she actually made him more unhappy in the end. ow thinks H returned to our M out of obligation to our kids and that she is better for him, which is why she sees herself as the victim. She kept trying to convince H to leave me by saying that he was not getting his needs met in the M. While H did tell her many times that he was having second thoughts about leaving his marriage which is why he kept stalling about moving out, he never admitted it was because he was beginning to realize that he still loved me. He kept the focus on our kids, on his obligations and on her, telling her their A didn't feel right anymore and that he was beginning to think that he had not done everything he could have to save his M. He never admitted he still loved me out of fear she would try to hurt me. When the A started he didn't care about my feelings because he was so angry at me but now that he is not, I think it's about making it clear his feelings for her were a facade and that she is a fool for thinking this was all not fair to HER. And it's about putting the respect back where it belongs and taking away her self-absorbed belief that she was the wronged party and is the key to my H's happiness.


But you make some good points and I will talk to H and I'm sure we will give it more thought. And yes, I will post all about our Retrovaille experience in a week and a half. Thanks as always, lc. ((()))

[kml]

I think it's about making it clear his feelings for her were a facade and that she is a fool for thinking this was all not fair to HER.

I think there is a happy medium that won't incite her to more drama. He could simply say he realizes he really loves his wife and wants to be with her, and that she never deserved him to cheat on her. He doesn't have to say anything demeaning to OW.

[Endeavour]

I LOVE YOU FOR SAYING THIS....

just b/c the LBSer is here, does not make us the "right" one. And that is DAMN tough to admit.

Yes, it is hard to admit, 25. I am still struggling with this because it would be so EASY to put all the blame him for the A, but I know without a doubt that I have to own MY contributions to our dysfunctional M.

Is this hard to admit when you're angry, and jealous and in the worst emotional pain of your life? Yes, BUT I believe my H when he says that if he was getting sex and attention, and if he was feeling loved and wanted that he would not have had the A. That said, he still owns his choices and mistakes and I have to own mine if we have any hope of saving our M.

I have known this man for 20 years and if I am honest with myself about who he truly is, I know he would not have done it for excitement or because he was bored. And despite the crazy, angry person he became for over a year, I know that deep down he is not a horrible man. He was very dedicated to me and very in love with me for most of our M. He was not perfect but he wanted me more than I wanted him for a very long time.

And I know it might sound conceited , but I get hit on a lot and who knows maybe if it wasn't always 26 year olds hitting on me (what is with these young men and their cougar fantasies?), maybe I would have been sucked into an A too. I can't say I didn't fantasize about finding some perfect man to meet my needs. So while I may have not done it and most likely would have stopped it sooner (if it even began), I was also not communicating with my H, nor being completely honest with him either.

But what is the point in keeping that scorecard? Do I want to be right OR do I want to be happy and married?

Wanting to be right and playing the victim got me in this mess so I'm going with happy and married from now on...

great and balanced insights...healthy...good solid hard WORK.. BRAVELY DONE!!

Yes, I think he actually gets it. He was one crazy vacillating see-sawing WAS but when it clicked, it really clicked. His words and actions seem to suggest that he really does feel true remorse.

I think in some ways he is DB'ing me now. He validates my anger if I snap and say something about the A (I'm not always a perfect DB'er). He constantly reminds me that he loves me and that he understands and has said many times that he will be patient with me as I cycle through the pain and anger.

"During the months since the bomb, he said he also wishes he would have just said that the real issue was that he felt unattractive and unloved but that he felt silly and petty for having an A over wanting some attention so he made it about all these other exaggerated reasons which explains why most of the time I thought he was crazy."

INTERESTING^^^...& believable. I wonder how common this is...a lot I bet.

I agree this probably happens a lot and I see it seems to occur it most sitches, which is why I'm glad that I validated the stuff that I knew was true. And as for the stuff that I knew was crazy WAS spewing nonsense, well I used your phrase about not actually remembering it that way, but added that I was sorry he was hurt/angry/misunderstood anyway...

(Anyone reading this, please listen to 25 when she posts to you, even if you don't want to, and even if it stings. Trust me.)

Hate to say this but I pity her.

Maybe the chemo and radiation made her nuttier. Honestly, my mil was definitely damaged mentally by hers.

Well, I hate to say it, but I don't. I detest her and I know I have to let that go in time, and I will. I promise! BUT she started the A before she got cancer so she was manipulative and needy prior to treatment. (Anyone who involves themselves in an A has issues with boundaries.) So right now, I don't feel the least bit sorry for her. Okay, said it. Moving on...

rd
"Retrovaille is in 10 days...The follow-up sessions are at a church 10 minutes from our home".

What? 10 minutes? Dang...the convenience of yours makes me jealous. I hope you get as much out of it as we did. Give it the whole time and beyond

b/c it IS a process that generates growth in spurts. At least it did for us.

I know, it's so ironic considering, the local chapter is in the nearest major city, yet the hotel and the church are so close to us. Hello, Universe!

But yes, it will be a long road and we are both prepared for what lies ahead. H said last night that he realizes that I am going to take a long time to heal (perhaps years), and that he thinks I am very brave and very strong for even considering forgiving him.

Then he started to cry and said he is hurting so much because of all the pain he has caused, but that he knows that his shame and his pain is nothing compared to mine. He said he is very scared that some day this will destroy my feelings for him and that resentment will build up and we will lose our M. He admits from what he's read that he knows I am vulnerable to having my own A right now, and that if I did, he would forgive me but he would really rather me not because he would be very hurt but he wanted me to know that he would forgive me. I assured him that one crazy OP in our lives is enough thank-you very much, but that I appreciate him letting me know that he would forgive me for an A. Oh, the conversations we have these days.

beautiful...thank you.

Keep us posted...[/color]

Thank-you too, 25. If it wasn't for this board and all the wonderful advice and support I was given, I'm not sure I would be on the path to saving my M right now. I might even be separated and dealing with two even more devastated children because my H was correct in fearing that I would have thrown him out before I knew what I know now. If that had happened, he said he would have ended up alone, drinking and crying about how he destroyed his entire life over nothing. He said none of it was worth it. Not a single second. I believe it's going to take a long time for him to forgive himself as well.

(Speaking of the drinking, that has stopped thankfully. He says he was doing it to drown his guilt and pain. It's all pretty obvious now.)