W is moving out.....life goes on...

[In_Shock]

OK -- MY NEW responses are in BLUE


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At that point they told W she needed to move out. They believed I was controlling

(I'm very quiet believe it or not and at that time 2005 even more shy)

excuse me? Who is "they"?


"they" refers to the women at the church who 'outed' us and condemned us to hell! And believe it or not, it was a really mainstream, generally accepting denomination. Pretty sad situation. Glad we did move on from that and didn't listen to them, separate and become celibate


So W's mom had told them I was controlling W, wouldn't 'let' her have friends, etc... NOT TRUE. As I've said before I kind of relied on W to make friends and then I latched on to them... my own fear of people.


okay THIS^^^^ is a mandatory 180 for YOU to make for YOU....it's no way to live well and that's all I am going to say. Join something, reach out and take a frickin' chance (and go to that workshop and make your needs known to the community there-perfect example of a real push out of your comfort zone).



Yes, I've been doing that ALOT !! I've actually made some friends - some former students who are older, and looked up old friends from the past. In the past few weeks I've gone out with people that W doesn't even know about 8 times. A HUGE HUGE 180 for me.



I told W I truly loved her, was sorry she felt abandoned

she probably felt that church shamed her and you were associated with it. Bummer...but honestly why were you in a church worshipping our Creator in a place you had to hide yourself?? Okay enough said...

I just hope you see that it isn't faith in God that hurt you, but faith in the wrong people.

It isn't God who let you down, but that damned free will we have...

[color:#6633FF]Yeah -- small town. The church we were in, again the denomination is liberal -- but apparently the local one, not so much

That religious story is the BIG thing that W brings up in terms of trusting my changes. But I've been consistent with that one since 2005....it's 2011!!!!


Not sure what that^^ means? She does or does not believe you can change? And if you can change, then somehow that means you are superficial or the change would not have been possible?? What? So you are damned if you do and damned if you don't...great. I'm not clear on this^^.


Let me see if i can clarify this ^^^ She believes I'm someone who is not 'consistent' -- she uses the example of going from apathetic about religion, to being REALLY religious (to the point where even though we were still together, I became convinced homosexuality was a sin....not good for the R, but W stayed and even was more active in the church than I was!)

ok, so i went from being apathetic about religion when we met, to really religious a couple of years into the R, to agnostic from 2005 to present. She takes this to mean I'm inconsistent. This is over THIRTEEN years--- much living, exploring, learning.... To me, people who stay the same all the time...something isn't right!! Who was it, Emerson maybe who said "the love of consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds." ? Yeah, I'm not consistent in that I GROW and I change over time. Damn, huh??


Other trust/change thing is when we first got together we kind of 'bickered' a lot. My family does that. it's meaningless, and the way we relate I guess..lol. W was upset by that, told me -- and I STOPPED. made a conscious decision to stop bickering. She now tells me that shows that i can change on a whim....HMMMMMMM It wasn't easy -- very conscious choice, made out of love and to improve our R.

same thing...you are doomed to change and keep changing, into what? someone OUT of love with her? What?


Let me try to clarify this ^^^^ one also. When I have asked her for examples of why she doesn't trust me == the church thing is number one, and the only other one she cn come up with is that when she told me the 'bickering' i did annoyed her -- I IMMEDIATELY stopped. She says this also illustrates that I can 'turn on a dime' into something else like a chameleon. As I said, I stopped doing something that she told me she disliked. If I HAD NOT stopped bickering, and remained consistent in that, would she have liked that? Definitely damned if I do and damned if I don't in that case. She really can't give me any other examples so that is all i can go on. Weird I think.



She told me also that I put work, my writing, my doctoral program, my aging mother before her and S. I can see that now. I do think I spent too much time pursuing my goals and things and didn't spend enough time nurturing the R.

Ambition is good, workaholism isn't.

[color:#6633FF]I agree. When I was younger and in college, I had some hard financial times. I've worked really really hard to get to a comfortable, respectable place in my career. I have always feared in the back of my mind losing it and having to go back to working retail or something. I love my job SO much --- but I've realized I love W and S much much more than the job. I WOULD go back and work retail if I had to for the M to work. (I'd a bit bored, but I'd probably write at night when they were asleep LOL)

as for your aging mother...gee, what a selfish beyotch you are...

W doesn't like my mother. She is quite a trial, but she's in her 80s and needs a lot of my help. I can't just not take her to dr appointments, not spend time with her (she lives alone) etc.... W says my mom treats me really badly, is narcissitic, and Axis 2 histrionic PD. Probably true...ok, definitely true in some ways...but I still feel some obligation to my mother. I mean, it's my mother...



but we'd be broke jokes in this economy if it weren't for his work habits so, it ain't perfect but I choose to be grateful for the traits that have SOME upsides and yours do too.[/color]

Agreed. Absolutely agreed.



That is a lose lose for you, at least at this time.
It is designed to prove that she is right & you two are wrong for each other.

[color:#6633FF]No -- I have more character than to use someone as a rebound to make myself feel better. I also realize that I have a TON of work to do on myself. I also really like the woman at work - and even if I 'liked' her that way, I would ABSOLUTELY not act on it for the reasons you and I both have said.


IF you want some mystery then come up with real mystery as in a woman your w does not know (let her fears of the Catherine Zeta Jones flare up)

b/c if you are too predictable then your w thinks she knows you so well she can figure it out all ahead of time and knows your changes are not real or lasting or blah blah blah

BEING MYSTERIOUS means not being predictable.

Instead of agreeing that her suggested OW for you, is in fact attractive to you, act surprised that she'd think YOU would feel that way about OW OR that you would act on it

b/c frankly, the only person you even considered dating other than your w would be....um someone else. she does not know....and drop that.


ahhhhh missed opportunity!!!!! I'm on it now.
Have FUN today and stay off the R talks.

Frankly I don't know what's worse the "R talks" or the "see my changes" talks....and that is my 2 x 4 for you. You did both!!

...all you say is

"well I always knew I wanted to work on 'x' and 'y' anyhow"...[b].and so it doesn't matter that SHE believes in them

Right-o. I try to remember that but my idiot mouth sometimes takes over from my brain!!!! LOL. Duct tape again.


These changes are FOR YOU to become the best woman you can become.

SHE is not relevant to THAT....do you see that? Believe it.
[/u]
So when those changes we keep talking about and that I believe are happening for real, DO happen,

you won't have to say anything. It'll be manifest.



I do see that. I did also tell her last night that even if she asked me to work on the R NOW -- I would say no (would i? Hmmm....???) because we both need to grow and change. If we reunite, I said, we would have to be in a different place -- I DO believe that. But of course if she asked to reunite NOW, I'd have to really really really remember to say NO!!! or we'd end up back here. Horrors..... (shivers)

She's trying to convince herself that you becoming who and what she wanted and needed isn't enough b/c that will have to change her trajectory.


That is a good thing in a way. She IS torn...thank GOD.

You really think so? I think that the 13 years (good and bad of course like all R's) along with S keep the emotional ties somewhat to me and make it harder. Yes, it's easier to start over tabula rasa, but personally I am willing to do the work. That's why I love the DBers. Some strong character manifested here.


(esp with those effortless emotional connections....--needed: an emoticon that rolls its' eyes)

YEP----LOL.
But the rewards are high too, I think. When our son25 or d22 graduated from college it was a beautiful moment of parental pride that belongs to PARENTS....

that ONLY the other parent can really "get". It's the one thing about my kids having kids that excites me (otherwise it makes me feel old)
and that too, will be something only the other parent can really "get"...

imagine the high school graduation of s4 in 14 years and you and w being there as a couple...

This makes me a bit teary. I truly hope this is how it turns out. He's OUR boy. I know exactly what you mean.


EE will address your "to Do" list way better than I can...hope you are going-let me know soon.

((( )))

I have to talk to boss this week to see about getting those days off. I really really hope it works out!!! I totally need that now.

Thank you so much for always taking the time to help. You are the master DBer. Big hugs and I'm sending you lots of love