W is moving out.....life goes on...

[25yearsmlc]

Ok -- let me break down the whole TRUST thing that has permeated this thing. First of all, I got really religious on W for a few years early on in the R. She felt abandoned by me (even though I never knew because she went to church, read the bible with me at night, did devotionals, led church worship, etc...) I thought she was right there with me. Well, in most Christian churches, gay people are not accepted so we were closeted. At some point some nosy women from the church confonted us - 'fired' us from our jobs as worship leader (W - who is a great singer :)) and me as a sunday school teacher. They pretty much told us we were going to hell, etc.....

I'm so sorry you had this^^^^ experience. Worse, I'm sorry you allowed the narrowmindedness of a few, cost you the comfort and love of your faith.
Someone very close to me recently came out. She attended a Jesuit University and took a class in homosexuality in the Bible.

To my shock, she explained the "debate" some theological circles in the Catholic Church are having about this very topic. I know this isn't the place for a discussion of this topic, but I want you to know that there are a LOT of places where it's not condemned & where I live, they have openly gay members in the church and in the clergy.


At that point they told W she needed to move out. They believed I was controlling (I'm very quiet believe it or not and at that time 2005 even more shy)

excuse me? Who is "they"?

So W's mom had told them I was controlling W, wouldn't 'let' her have friends, etc... NOT TRUE. As I've said before I kind of relied on W to make friends and then I latched on to them... my own fear of people.

okay THIS^^^^ is a mandatory 180 for YOU to make for YOU....it's no way to live well and that's all I am going to say. Join something, reach out and take a frickin' chance (and go to that workshop and make your needs known to the community there-perfect example of a real push out of your comfort zone).



I was built up to be a real pariah in the eyes of these people.

I had a choice to make. Did I want to stay with W or stay with the church? I went into scholar mode- studied, etc...

SIGH...see my above comments....


I had been questioning for a long time, but then I confirmed it. I had developed into an agnostic. This was not a FAST transformation inside. It had been coming. The church confrontation just pushed it to the top.

well, duh....who wouldn't have their faith tested beyond the breaking point if the so called "fellow faith people" condemn you??

You need a new church!!

I told W I truly loved her, was sorry she felt abandoned

she probably felt that church shamed her and you were associated with it. Bummer...but honestly why were you in a church worshipping our Creator in a place you had to hide yourself?? Okay enough said...

I just hope you see that it isn't faith in God that hurt you, but faith in the wrong people.

It isn't God who let you down, but that damned free will we have...


and I would make it up to her. We had a renewal in our R that was amazing. We even got the butterflies, lol, when we would see each other at night after work... a couple of years== fantastic.

Our R was so strong we bought a home in 2006 and adopted S in 2007.

Good stuff....she won't forget the good times when she has the space to allow the good memories to resurface.


That religious story is the BIG thing that W brings up in terms of trusting my changes. But I've been consistent with that one since 2005....it's 2011!!!!

Not sure what that^^ means? She does or does not believe you can change? And if you can change, then somehow that means you are superficial or the change would not have been possible?? What? So you are damned if you do and damned if you don't...great. I'm not clear on this^^.


Other trust/change thing is when we first got together we kind of 'bickered' a lot. My family does that. it's meaningless, and the way we relate I guess..lol. W was upset by that, told me -- and I STOPPED. made a conscious decision to stop bickering. She now tells me that shows that i can change on a whim....HMMMMMMM It wasn't easy -- very conscious choice, made out of love and to improve our R.

same thing...you are doomed to change and keep changing, into what? someone OUT of love with her? What?


I'm just throwing all this out there because any perspective helps me process. She also complained to her mom that I didn't do enough around the house --which i really did quite a bit, but I guess not enough. one of my 180's has been to do even more things and without being asked.

Good 180^^^. That's all you can do NOW, so keep it going and let go of your past mistakes...it's not a reason for divorce so don't go on and on about that either way. I mean, I wouldn't stay with someone b/c they clean up well either.


She told me also that I put work, my writing, my doctoral program, my aging mother before her and S. I can see that now. I do think I spent too much time pursuing my goals and things and didn't spend enough time nurturing the R.

Ambition is good, workaholism isn't. Welcome to my world. But life is often a balancing act. Not a 49/51 thing so much as 80 one week and 20 the next...like a swinging pendulum...make sense?

as for your aging mother...gee, what a selfish beyotch you are...wonder who will take care of your w when she's old? Her new gf is too old...and where sill s4 be, with HIS family making THEM his priority? Really?

My mil was NOT kind to me, at all. Nor was she mentally well--bad crazy. But she got terminal cancer and I flew out for the chemo, had her in our home and put myself out there b/c she's my h's mom. And my kids grandmother and that's what you do....I showed up...

And that is not something I regret.

Back to my h's insane work habits, on one hand his ambitions were at times selfish b/c you get more pats on the back and awards and bonuses and promotions at work, then you do at home....

but we'd be broke jokes in this economy if it weren't for his work habits so, it ain't perfect but I choose to be grateful for the traits that have SOME upsides and yours do too.

The problem is NOW the things she wanted me to do before in terms of putting her first would be pursuing.

Then do them without her. IOW do UNwork related things, but with other friends and son, and mystery peeps if you have to (you still need to join something with new people!!--GAL thing).

Wondering if all R's are so damn difficult.

me too...me too....

Hoping I can win back my W and have a chance to make it all up to her because she is a wonderful, kind, generous person who I do love with all my heart. Hoping I can keep watering the grass on my side and OW will fade.....

Thanks for reading all my ponderings. Writing helps...

as for the OW that your w suggests you date---

forget it. That is a lose lose for you, at least at this time.

It is designed to prove that she is right & you two are wrong for each other.

And how fair is it to that poor other woman, for you to date her so that what, you can make your w jealous? Or prove that your w is NOT jealous--hurts you more!

no way.

IF you want some mystery then come up with real mystery as in a woman your w does not know (let her fears of the Catherine Zeta Jones flare up)

b/c if you are too predictable then your w thinks she knows you so well she can figure it out all ahead of time and knows your changes are not real or lasting or blah blah blah

BEING MYSTERIOUS means not being predictable.

Instead of agreeing that her suggested OW for you, is in fact attractive to you, act surprised that she'd think YOU would feel that way about OW OR that you would act on it

b/c frankly, the only person you even considered dating other than your w would be....um someone else. she does not know....and drop that.

B/C you want THIS R to work, and then stay on that topic.

IOW you can allude to the theoretical possibility of someone else

down the road but you "can't handle more than one wife at a time" and you are emotionally/mentally (legally?) married to her now.

Have FUN today and stay off the R talks.

Yeah I did shake my head when you said "a little r talk that hurt"

b/c then I knew it was r talk!!! If it weren't R talk, it would not hurt!

And of course you have to stop the "see my changes" discussions.

Frankly I don't know what's worse the "R talks" or the "see my changes" talks....and that is my 2 x 4 for you. You did both!!

When she says "I noticed your changes and that's nice BUT"

...all you say is

"well I always knew I wanted to work on 'x' and 'y' anyhow"....and so it doesn't matter that SHE believes in them

or that SHE belives they will last or that SHE is still holding onto HER version of the past...

These changes are FOR YOU to become the best woman you can become.

SHE is not relevant to THAT....do you see that? Believe it.

So when those changes we keep talking about and that I believe are happening for real, DO happen,

you won't have to say anything. It'll be manifest.

She's trying to convince herself that you becoming who and what she wanted and needed isn't enough b/c that will have to change her trajectory.


That is a good thing in a way. She IS torn...thank GOD.

And like you said, Relationships are hard. It's easy to see the appeal of just starting fresh and wiping the slate clean isn't it?

(esp with those effortless emotional connections....--needed: an emoticon that rolls its' eyes)

But the rewards are high too, I think. When our son25 or d22 graduated from college it was a beautiful moment of parental pride that belongs to PARENTS....

that ONLY the other parent can really "get". It's the one thing about my kids having kids that excites me (otherwise it makes me feel old)
and that too, will be something only the other parent can really "get"...

imagine the high school graduation of s4 in 14 years and you and w being there as a couple...

or with other people. Neither image is "bad"--but one is surely better than the other, right?

it's those moments that matter....and life is made up of them.

Hang in there..
We DBers don't have all the answers. We're mostly good at telling you what NOT to do.

EE will address your "to Do" list way better than I can...hope you are going-let me know soon.

((( )))