Walking in Muskeg - Part IV - Squishy Rubber Boots

[Queen_of_Swords]

Rambling-Journalling-Purging

Had a meeting yesterday with STBX. We took a long drive...he drove as that lessens his tension and give him a channel for nervous energy.

I got more specific with my questions.

I asked STBX him if he expected me to remain celibate and not meet with other individuals, his answer: I don't know, it's been two years, and I can't give you what you want and need.
Asked if he wanted to attempt to reconcile STBX's answer: No.
Asked how he feels about anything: Numb. The only people he feels anything for/about are our kids. He said that doesn't feel much of anything even for his own mother.

( MEGA OUCH! Rejected again! Do I ever feel like a pair of battered, soiled, holey soled running shoes. I am still stinging from that this morning. )

He also said the only time he has any sense of peace is when he's reading or watching TV. He walks around with a constant sensation of tightness in his belly and chest.
He said he has to stop being a people-pleaser.
He knows he can't set boundaries that aren't made of Jell-o and that makes him feel weak, ineffective and easy to take advantage of.
He says he doesn't know who he is, and he's scared to death to find out.
He's not sure he's going to like who he is if he does find out and if he makes changes.

I asked him if he wanted me to move forward with divorce.
Again he said, he didn't know, but that he felt (?) I'd been dragged through enough hell, and that he knew I was tired of being in limbo.

I found that a strange comment in light of what he said earlier about feeling nothing for anyone but our kids and in light of certain considerate actions in regard to me in he last couple of months.

I remarked that after seeing my lawyer I knew it would financially devastate us both, him the most, and perhaps there was a third path to take. He asked me what that was.

I said that no binding decisions had to be made right now. If he needed time I was willing to give him that time, and I asked him how much time he needed? He said he didn't know.

(Ugh! if I hear those three words " I don't know", again I think I'll vomit or throw something breakable!)

I said that considering he's chosen action in doing the program that I have and am doing, that I could wait a month...or up to three months, and reevaluate then, if he wished.

He seemed a little less anxious and relieved after I said that, and said that was a good idea.

From what I observed yesterday STBX is so lost and cut off from his own feelings it's frightening. He feels physical sensations but cannot connect them to his emotional state. He's going through the motions of living, but not living.
I had no idea of how disconnected he really was/is; not just from me, but from himself.

I feel so badly for him and for my kids and for myself.
None of us is getting what we need or deserve.

I don't understand it. We can talk reasonably as adults with no histrionics on either side, and yet there is void between us that can't be bridged it seems.

Am I crazy? Do I invest in this man who has the potential to hurt me all over again? Do I gamble on him/us, or do I walk away because the stakes are too high and the pain too great?

Part of me says: No guts, no glory.
Part of me says: Cut your losses, move on, let go, wipe the slate clean, the past is dust, forget.

[Queen_of_Swords]

Had a counseling session with my DB coach.

For those following my situation here is the advice given:

1) Don't give in to the temptation to rescue ( or mother).
2)Don't have expectations too low or too high...aim for what's realistic, because we tend to get what we expect. ( Research shows we modify OUR behaviour on what our expectations are; good or bad.
3)Keep living your life as if the WAS is not coming back.

Peace, out.

[Queen_of_Swords]

Feeling really strange.
Maybe it's detachment.
Maybe it's just plain "done".
I don't know.
What I do know, is I care less and less about what he chooses to do with his life, whether or not he has a relationship with the kids or with me.
It's like a switch flipped inside me.
I wish him well, I wish him healthy, but I just don't care if that's with or without me anymore.

[AntoniaB]

A lot of his answers to your convo. in the car reminded me very much or were dead on for the way my XH described what he was going through the few months before he left me the first time. The disconnectedness and panic and fear were all there, and the sort of zombie-like state he could get into if he focused on something was his only "release." In fact in retrospect I'd realize that every time he got involved in a house project just "out of the blue" (like one day he just got it in his head to tear a room apart and pretty much clean it with a toothbrush) it was his way of escaping from how awful he felt because he was going out of his skin.

Then he left and came back 4 months later saying he was fine, and 6 months after that, started the emotional affair up and then I called him on it and he moved out and that was the end of it...divorce in Jan. 2011.

I only tell you all that because my XH was in that state in 2009, and here we are, 2011...and all he did was get into another rel. and he's repeating all rel. mistakes with this woman. I often wonder, if I had walked away from him the first time he left and said then, you know what, go figure yourself out, instead of pressuring him to come back as I did, would he have fixed himself? Instead, he came back, he wasn't even close to healed, and then he took a major escape route to deal with the pain--OW.

I feel like there really isn't anything you can do to help a person who is in the state he is. I know that I tried for so long and I think I made it worse. If I'd had it to do over, I'd have learned then about detachment. Maybe I'd have even been the one to file or at least to solidify a long-term separation.

I'm sorry about this because I remember so well what it was like to watch my XH fall apart 2 years ago, and to feel so helpless and hurt. And I don't think it's that you dont' care about him or his life, I think it's that maybe you're seeing that it's really taking a toll on you and to be the best person you can be, you have to at some point start to take care of your own needs more than trying to shoulder yours and his. I agree with your coach--detach, GAL, live your life as if it is over. If it isn't over, you're developing great skills that will always serve you, and if it is over, if he can't find his way "out", then you need those skills to survive and find your own way.

[Queen_of_Swords]

A lot of his answers to your convo. in the car reminded me very much or were dead on for the way my XH described what he was going through the few months before he left me the first time. The disconnectedness and panic and fear were all there, and the sort of zombie-like state he could get into if he focused on something was his only "release." In fact in retrospect I'd realize that every time he got involved in a house project just "out of the blue" (like one day he just got it in his head to tear a room apart and pretty much clean it with a toothbrush) it was his way of escaping from how awful he felt because he was going out of his skin.

Then he left and came back 4 months later saying he was fine, and 6 months after that, started the emotional affair up and then I called him on it and he moved out and that was the end of it...divorce in Jan. 2011.

I only tell you all that because my XH was in that state in 2009, and here we are, 2011...and all he did was get into another rel. and he's repeating all rel. mistakes with this woman. I often wonder, if I had walked away from him the first time he left and said then, you know what, go figure yourself out, instead of pressuring him to come back as I did, would he have fixed himself? Instead, he came back, he wasn't even close to healed, and then he took a major escape route to deal with the pain--OW.

I feel like there really isn't anything you can do to help a person who is in the state he is. I know that I tried for so long and I think I made it worse. If I'd had it to do over, I'd have learned then about detachment. Maybe I'd have even been the one to file or at least to solidify a long-term separation.

I'm sorry about this because I remember so well what it was like to watch my XH fall apart 2 years ago, and to feel so helpless and hurt. And I don't think it's that you dont' care about him or his life, I think it's that maybe you're seeing that it's really taking a toll on you and to be the best person you can be, you have to at some point start to take care of your own needs more than trying to shoulder yours and his. I agree with your coach--detach, GAL, live your life as if it is over. If it isn't over, you're developing great skills that will always serve you, and if it is over, if he can't find his way "out", then you need those skills to survive and find your own way.

I appreciate the time you took to write Antonia.

The similarities in our situation jump out at you and the differences jump out at me.

Never the less your last sentence rings true.

I'm just feeling really odd.
I'm feeling so dis-invested in whatever he does now.
I do know I'll cope.
I do know I don't need him to be happy.
I do know right now my focus is on creating my own happiness and keeping my children focused, well cared for, and nurtured to the best of my ability.

I hope my H finds his way out of the pit he's dug himself, but that's up to him and God now.

I admit I'm helpless in the face of this and there is not a blessed thing I can do or say. The only thing I can do is pray and be a constant, consistent, authentic person.




Side note, today I was listening to the radio and this song came on, it so totally describes a MLC I'd thought I'd share it:

Till I Am Myself Again - by Blue Rodeo

I wanna know where my confidence went,
One day it all disappeared,
As I'm lying in a hotel room miles away
Voices next door in my ear.

Well daytime's a drag, nighttime's worse,
I hope I can get home soon,
But the half finished bottles of inspiration,
Lie like ghosts in my room.

Well I wanna go, I can't stay,
But I don't wanna run feeling this way,

'til I am myself
'til I am myself
'til I am myself
'til I am myself again.

There's a seat on the corner, I keep every night
Wait 'til the evening begins,
I feel like a stranger from another world,
But at least, I'm living again.

There were nights full of anger,words that were thrown,
Temper that is shattered and thin,
But the moments of magic are just too short,
They're over before they begin.

Well I know it's time,
One big step,
I can't go, I'm not ready yet.

'til I am myself
'til I am myself
'til I am myself
'til I am myself again.

I had a dream my house was on fire,
People laughed while it burned,
Well I tried to run,but my legs were numb,
I had to wait 'til the feeling returned.

Well I don't need a doctor to figure it out,
I know what's passing me by,
When I look in the mirror sometimes I see,
Traces of some other guy.

Well I wanna go, I know I can't stay,
I don't wanna run feeling this way.

'til I am myself
'til I am myself
'til I am myself
'til I am myself again.

[Queen_of_Swords]

Ok, I feel like I've fallen into the the theatre of the absurd.
I'm unwell at the moment, and I have not communicated with STBX, about anything except the kids' welfare for days. I've been all business.
Just a few minutes ago he texts to see how I am. I tell him without details or drama and say I'll live.
I don't know whether to laugh or to cry.

[Queen_of_Swords]

Journalling - just musing.

I think I'm turning into the walk away spouse now.

I fully realize our M was not all roses and wine, and I recognize my part in the deterioration in our M as well as his. My thoughts/behavior that contributed to my M's breakdown I have chosen to do something about and I am happy with my progress in this area as well as my personal and emotional growth so far. Yes, I still have more to do and this process will be lifelong.

My life and responsibilities have changed very little since he left.
I still carry everything I did in the past and now, more.
I don't and didn't really need him.
Nevertheless I did love him and I did want his full participation. I seldom got it.
He sorta just went along for the ride, even if he hated the Carousel.

Do I love him now?
I care about his well being. I hope he finds his way to personal happiness and a really good understanding of what he needs and wants. I hope he heals his own trauma of the past and finds his confident and assertive self.

Is that love or something less than love? I don't know.

I do know I feel nothing sexual for him anymore. I do know although I offer hugs and touch when I can, it feels like hugging one of my siblings, but even less so.
I can count on my siblings, him I feel I can't.

I guess in some ways I've convinced myself he really never gave a damn about me, unless I could be fitted into some time/space/role slot he determined was appropriate to what he needed.
He didn't love me for who I am, he loved what he thought I could do for him. In fact looking back I feel he was often ashamed of me.
I was not then, and not now, really what he wanted. I didn't and don't fit his ideas that he has about what a wife "should" be.
I still don't.

I'm a wife in name only, and mother to our kids and those are the two roles I have as far as STBX is concerned.

I want more than that.

The question now is how do I get it?
I've resigned myself to the fact he wants very little to do with me, and in fact does not want any of his needs met by me.

I've also resigned myself to the fact he has absolutely no interest in meeting my needs. I don't concern him unless it's in my role as mother to our kids.

I've already done some dating and let's just say, the men there want me for one thing...

[kml]

Well - about the dating thing - I'm a couple years older than you, let me just say I'm darned HAPPY men still want me for that!

That being said - one of the nicest things to come out of dating after my divorce, has been how much the men I've dated liked me for ME. After 26 years with a man who was never really satisfied with me, (among other things, I was never thin enough for him, even when I was downright skinny), it was refreshing to be with men who cherished my midlife curvy figure. Even when I was a very skinny 120 lbs, I always had broad hips - I'm just built that way. Now that I weigh 40 lbs more, it's my sexy booty that first drew the attention of my current boyfriend!

(Of course, he stays because I'm kind, smart, gutsy, and funny, among other things!)

[Queen_of_Swords]

It's ok to be wanted for that but not ONLY for that. That's the point. These guys only want that.

[kml]

Hmmmm....was that really true? (In which case, you need some better radar skills. Those guys are out there, for sure, but you can avoid them if you're savvy).

Or - did you have unreasonable expectations early in the relationship? (It's easy, after we've been through what we have, to want the next guy to sweep us off our feet and make everything ok - but in reality, most guys are much slower to warm up to the relationship side of things. Could you have jumped to conclusions?)