Treading water - time and patience

[~ kd ~]

Yes, good points Harrier... I have heard that about perception as well, I think also here, so maybe same thread...

And those are some other great suggestions to try regarding communication... that's how it works... different brains, different perspectives...

[Accuray]

NYCPeter,

I spend quite a bit of time thinking about your sitch, it's very frustrating and I can't imagine what you're going through. I have been reading "Love Must Be Tough" by Dobson, and think it may be worth a read in your situation.

To your point about perception, it talks about the fact that your W's perception of you has changed over a long period of time, so the behaviors and the words are just symptoms of her perception. If you deal at the level of the behaviors and words, you're chasing your tail.

You seem to have tried many ways to approach this situation with varying degrees of success, I believe that this book will give you one more approach to try. It gives you a prescription for becoming less of an open book to your spouse, and why that is such a good and effective thing.

In the words of DB -- if what you're doing isn't working, do something different!

I wish I had read this when I was in the thick of things, but it's good to read it now.

--Accuray

[NYCPeter]

I am honored that everyone has taken the time to respond to my threads and offered such good advice. It seems like I have a group of guardian angels looking out for my best interests.

KD & H - I will try to take on board what you have said re: communication, it does not come naturally to me so the repeat, validate approach seems to be a template that I can always try to follow. Usually when in a tricky situation I've tried to use humour to defuse / deflect the issue - that's not always the best approach.

Accuray - great point re: perception, I am an open book because I am honest about my feelings and don't hesitate to show them. I can also be passive aggresive and that's a trait no-one likes, I have worked very hard to eliminate that but at times it bubbles to the surface.

Getting anxious about tomorrow and moving back to the house - I hope my W is more receptive than she has been, if she isn't then I need to remind myself that's her decision and I cannot control it.

[Accuray]

NYCPeter,

The fact that "you are an open book because you are honest about your feelings and don't hesitate to show them" is probably hurting your cause right now. I'm the same way. Being that way *right now* in your relationship is not good, although normally in marriage it could be. Read the post below to understand why:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...833#Post2189833

--Accuray

[NYCPeter]

I read that posting earlier - it all makes sense and I need to discipline myself to do so. What about during MC? Should I be less of an open book there? I don't mean to outright lie, but if direct questions are asked about my feelings.

I'm also doing a 180 (though one my W will not see or hear about). I always felt I shouldn't go and see a lawyer until it was absolutely essential (i.e. my W filed) - well I've set up an appointment for tomorrow PM. I need to know what the likely outcome would be of a D so I can prepare and protect myself.

Everything I have read indicates from a financial perspective I should expect to see around 1/3 of my salary. As my W is for the most part a SAHM and our income disparity is huge - one of the things that makes me sad is that I won't be able to provide a comfortable place for my girls to come and stay with me. My family lives in England and if we needed to sell the house there won't be much change left after paying realtor fees etc.

Oh well - where there's a will there's a way.

[Accuray]

Would you say that MC is helping? My DB coach said that it can actually not help in some cases because therapists look for problems (and will find them). By focusing on problems, they increase in importance, and can leave both of you feeling worse. Therefore, in the spirit of DB, if it's not working do something different! My DB coach recommended marriage education instead, which comes from a different philosophy, it's not problem focused, it's focused on positive behaviors.

I would say that MC would help most when both spouses are motivated to improve the marriage. If not, it can probably do more harm than good unless the therapist is excellent.

In keeping with my earlier post, yes, I would filter more in MC and not be an open book. That's different than lying, you can say you don't want to talk about that, because you don't feel it will help to repair the marriage -- I used that response a few times to good effect. Although it may make you feel better to let it out, the yardstick here is repairing the marriage.

WRT the lawyer, divorce laws are state-specific so only someone in NY can tell you what to expect. My sister got divorced and her mediator said that regardless of the circumstances (infidelity, etc.) most divorce settlements end up about the same, no matter how hard fought or amicable they are. In her case, the formula was to split the marital assets and debt down the middle. The arguing comes in over what the "marital assets" include -- i.e. if you have a side account in your name, you could argue that's not a marital asset, etc. etc.

The other variable is child support and spousal support. Child support is usually a state formula, and spousal support is negotiated. I shared with my W that it's rare that the children get to stay "in the marriage home", and usually both spouses need to take a step down in living conditions. It's important that your W understands that -- her living situation will get worse too, as will that of your daughters. Usually they are of the understanding that they get to stay where they are and nothing much changes other than you are gone and a check in the mail starts arriving -- not so.

If you think about your finances, some months there are more child expenses than others, some months there are more housing expenses than others, etc. Because the two of you are in this together, you manage your finances with flexibility.

Going forward, that flexibility is gone. If child support doesn't cover child expenses this month, there's no borrowing from something else to cover, etc., and you don't benefit from months where expenses are less than normal. That loss of flexibility makes everything harder.

Good luck NYCPeter, I certainly admire your resolve!

[NYCPeter]

I would say MC has helped communication. I'm not sure he's tried to focus on other problems, he's asked us to say things that cause us stress and mine were external to our R (primarily work and money). My W talked about me wanting to be too close after being distant for so long and that she's "not ready" for that. Problem is she's even less ready now...

"usually both spouses need to take a step down in living conditions. It's important that your W understands that -- her living situation will get worse too, as will that of your daughters." - I really don't think she does. She thinks I will move out and pay for two homes out of savings - I'm at a loss as to how she thinks our girls living situation will be any better.

[Accuray]

May be worth sharing some facts after you talk to the lawyer. I did and it definitely helped to dispell some myths. You can't argue your W back to the table, and you can't scare her back either, but you can BOTH educate yourselves about the reasons to work on staying together, and some of those reasons are hard cold financial realities that don't have much to do with feelings unfortunately. Part of doing the opposite may be working out the financial picture and discussing it with W. Keep it factual, not emotional. May be a hail Mary but your situation seems to be getting dire.

[workinghardguy]

I will echo Accuray's comment... I know I encouraged my W to go to child support to find out how much she could get from her first ExH who she has two kids with. I think there is value in her seeing a) how small that amount is and b) getting the worksheet to see how little she'd get from me. It's not hard to do the numbers after that.

I also put together a budget for her so she could see in frank numbers what her world would look like (and what mine would look like). I would only have me, child support, and my S to pay for. She has her, my S, her S, her D, and a truckload of student loans to pay for.

I don't know if that's played any role, but I get the sense that it at least has made the other pasture of being a single mom less appealing.

[NYCPeter]

Thanks for the replies - from a financial perspective she'll think I'm putting pressure on. A 180 for me has been to not complain about what she spends money on unless it is drastic.

She has no sense of how to "cut back" - those following my sitch for a while will know one of our issues was $36k of credit card debt I knew nothing about. In retrospect I should have known she was spending more than we were making - but I never realized how much. Now we have a situation where if funds are low I transfer a few 100 from my personal account.

With alimony and child support she'll get around 66% of my salary - along with the help her parents will give her, I think she would be able to live comfortably on that. I'm the one who would struggle with the 33%.