Accuray Those are awesome words. The predictable part is what is affecting me. I get home at the same time every night and don't usually have alot of time before I have to go to sleep. So GALing on weekdays is tough. Weekends I do much better. I'm assuming it also has to do with how I communicate and other behaviors?
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
Right, I think "GAL" and "180" are different ways of saying the same thing -- this is just giving you another perspective on how and why.
The book says the other person is moving away from you. If you pursue they move away farther. This moving away is not physical, it's emotional. The farther they emotionally move away, the longer it is to come back. Therefore, the first goal is to limit how far away they move, by moving in the opposite direction and pulling back yourself! That will in theory not give them incentive to move away any farther and stay where they are.
Then, you need to give them incentive to move back closer to you. You can't provide that incentive by being an open book or by being predictable, they already know that story. You have to show them a story they don't know, and make them want to learn more.
Therefore, if you "180", they will start to think "who is this person, this is not who I thought I knew". That's why it's so important to be *consistent* with your 180's and not backslide. If you give them even a glimpse of what used to be, the intriguing part evaporates. Same thing with GAL -- where is this guy going and what is he doing? Why does he seem to be having fun without me? He should be miserable, but he isn't, why not?
Those are the questions that start to tease the person back to the table. If they ask questions and you explain all your plans and motivations -- no mystery left. Therefore, you need to be polite and supportive, but at the same time private and aloof. The most important thing is to project confidence and comfort ("act as if" from DB).
People are attracted by confidence, and repelled by a lack thereof.
All of this is counter-intuitive, and goes against your instincts. That's why it's so HARD.
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Treading water is a good way to describe it. I have been in this for more than a year now, and I am slowly seeing the effect of hanging in there.
My H has now opened up to me, saying that he does feel now that his "in love" feeling with OW is waning, that I was right in the first place that it does not really last. I did feel so hopeless back then, but decided to make a stand for my M.
I have been working on myself in the meantime, and although the time was painful, with a lot of backsliding and recovering, I would say that I have really and truly started to change inside. Having H at home and knowing that he was talking to OW on the phone was so hard that many times I had to stop myself from walking away, especially since we have a D12 and I had to think of her as well.
I would say that even if we are more like roomates sharing a bed, our situation is now a lot better. H has also had time to evaluate what he must do and has decided that he will stay in the M, that he is not ready to throw away everything, although he still is very negative about whether we can make it work. He still is in contact with OW although he has said that he will end it, HIS way.
So COG, sometimes it may seem like DB isn't working, but remember, the opposite of DB (Pursuing, begging, getting angry) will surely drive the other person out the door faster than you can say whoa.
At least, DBing buys you time. For sure, it will make you a better person. At most, it will save your M.
Good luck!
Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18 Bomb: 6/26/10 EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ??? 11/5/11 Retrouvaille Finally piecing.... Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
After reading everyones comments, and careful discernment, I've decided that approaching OM is not in my best interest - for several reasons. Two very important reasons include:
1) size difference (he could easily clobber me, if he chose to); 2) My W would absolutely file a D, then she'd play hardnose.
With regard to "what's next": We've signed our intent to vacate, effective 12/31/11, when our apartment lease expires. We have not yet had a conversation as to "what's next", although she briefly offered that "we" will soon start looking for a new place. Happy that she isn't as intent on a D as she was once, my feelings about starting a new lease are mixed. First, a relationship at some level still continues between them. Second, she still hasn't told me anything (even if I haven't asked). Third, we are currently in separate bedrooms, with no intimacy... do I want that to continue?
If I'm understanding the whole counterintuitive concept correctly, I should just be like a rug on the floor so W can walk all over me, in order to save the marriage. Right? In other words, is there a difference between being passive for the purpose of saving the marriage and being taken advantage?
DBing is not the same as being a rug... though at times it may feel that way. The OM issue does make it more complex and probably more like rug-like feeling.
It's more about focusing on you and your life. What doesn't your W like about you? Do you agree? Is that something you want to change/improve about yourself?
If W was spending willy-nilly on OM and that would financially hurt you then you would need to set a boundary. But that boundary is about WHAT she's spending it on... simply that she's spending beyond your means as a couple to handle. If your W was spending so much time with OM that your children (not up to speed on your sitch so not sure if there are kids) were being hurt by her lack of presence and that bothered you, then you can certainly say something. But it would be about the lack of interaction with the kids, NOT about how she is spending her time.
I have to run but that's the short version... I'll try to put down more later.
Married 6 together 8 Me:38 W:31 second marriage for both SS12, SD10, S6 Bomb: 9/8/11 (day before our 5 yr ann) W moved out: 2/18/12 D final: 11/12/12 Share S 50/50. Spend as much time as I can with SS & SD
You seem to be beating yourself up a bit. You are not a victim here. Stop feeling intimidated by the OM. If you want to save your M, you're going to have to change a few things.
The first one being you have to get your b@lls back from your W. You think she's holding all the cards, because you've given them to her. Slow down and stop. Stop fearing your W and the OM and what she will or won't do.
Although you can't see it, you have a choice to do what you want to do. Don't let your W control the sitch.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
I didn't think you were coming back, nice to see an update. That's good news that W wants to find a new place with you, what have you been doing that's been working?
You are right that you have a choice to make here, you ALSO get to decide if you want to continue to live together. You may decide you don't want to with OM in the picture. Per Mr. Bond, you can take control of your situation here.
Originally Posted By: CaughtOffGuard
If I'm understanding the whole counterintuitive concept correctly, I should just be like a rug on the floor so W can walk all over me, in order to save the marriage. Right? In other words, is there a difference between being passive for the purpose of saving the marriage and being taken advantage?
Not at all. You should never be walked all over. That implies that you are a victim. If you did that, you'd be so resentful you'd have a really hard time recovering the relationship.
Here's the point -- what do YOU want?
Do you want to preserve your pride, or do you want to save your marriage? You *may* be able to do both, but pretend you had to choose only one, which would be more important to you? That will probably guide your way forward.
If you decide that saving your marriage is MOST important, then you may need to let some things go. That's not being a doormat, because you're deciding how you're going to respond and act, and you're doing it for yourself, not for her.
We all have a "line" at which point it is no longer worth it to DB and try to save the marriage. If that line gets crossed, we give up, and we may even feel good about walking away, because the choice became clear. At other times when our line gets crossed, we reassess. Where your line is drawn, is entirely up to you, you're in control of what you will tolerate and what you won't.
If you decide your pride is more important, that's OK too. You may at that point try the "Last Resort Technique" in Michelle's books. If you are really ready to walk away, you actually get a lot of power back in the relationship, because you no longer feel you have a lot to lose. At that point, you can make ultimatums because you're willing to enforce the "or else".
You get walked on when you make an ultimatum, W does not do what you demanded, and you don't follow through. In that case, you lose. Therefore, you have to choose your ultimatums carefully and use them only when you're willing to walk.
DB'ing does not make you a doormat -- it's something you do for yourself, to realize your own goals, and you do it on your own terms. That's the mindset you need to adopt. If you're doing it "for her" or only "to win her back" it will not accomplish its goals.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
I hate to take away from COG but Accuray can you go over to my thread and give it a read. I am in the same boat except I called her out on it last week and now I am going dark/dim only seeing her every other weekend when I would pick up kids for my weekends. I am taking my kids two nights a week.
M37 W34 S6 D3 M8yrs T14 S 1year Told me she doesn't want to be married 10/2011 "I will never stop trying because when you find the ONE, you never give up." Steve Carrell Crazy, stupid, Love
You are all correct, and I'll be the first to admit... W does, and always held, authority in our M. I've always walked on eggshells around her. I've never had the cajones to follow-thru on a challenge. She knows that, too. However, that may be about to change.
Of course, I want my M to survive. But, how much pride should one swallow before it is obvious the M over?
You've given good advice, thank you! I guess at some point, I will need to grow a rock-solid backbone.
Thank you, Accuray, for your time & thoughts, as well as to the many others who have provided support.
For the longest time, months actually, I contained my hurt regarding the knowledge of W's secretive ongoing relationship, whatever it was, with OM. Only recently, with her continued silence on the subject matter - and the impending decision of "where do we go from here", did it feel insurmountable.
Last evening, during a casual conversation, I cracked. I was hoping to hold out any such discussion until after Thanksgiving. On one particular question, I felt (actually, knew) she provided a deceptive answer, I probed further.
Needless to say, I persisted until she admitted she had been withholding information from me about OM for quite some time. She was adamant, it is/was not a PA and therefore did not break our vows. (I can't say for sure if I believe her, as much as I want to). She said she just wanted to have male friends who weren't gay. PA or not, I wouldn't have been angry. Hurt & confused yes. I conveyed that.
Anyway, as much as I was into the moment, I didn't feel proud for getting her to admit. I had always hoped she'd do it on her own terms and preferrably sooner. But, I did it and will have to suffer the repercussions, yet to be determined.
One final thought, is it acceptable or even normal for a spouse to have a friend of the opposite gender? (I'm not talking about lunching occasionally with a co-worker during business hours, or going to an all-office happy hour.) Is there a specific line which should not be crossed? Is it incorrect to be jealous, or to request that the "friendship" cease?
