W is moving out.....life goes on...

[In_Shock]

Damn that FB. Ok, I am having a dilemma. Actually, it's not so much a dilemma -- but I wanted to see what you guys had to say. I have never so much as tried to look up OW. I didn't want to know anything about her. I don't ask, and so far all I had heard was something incidental from my boss about her being tall, atheletic and blonde. That was enough, didn't want any more. Well tonight I end up seeing accidentally a pic of her through a mutual friend on that stupid FB. The first person I thought was her was quite attractive and i was....wow.... I certainly can understand the attraction. Then i clicked on the pic and NO--- the, well, not so attractive person in the pic is actually OW. Yes, tall - yes blonde. But...not very attractive.

Now, like I said, it was totally accidental -- but I can't get his woman out of my head. it's like a real WTF moment. I'm no Angelina Jolie for heaven's sake, but I honestly believe I'm more attractive than OW. *for the record, my boss had told me this in so many words, but i thought...she was being kind..... So should this make me feel better or worse? You know what I mean?

Yeah, I know the DB answer is 'it doesn't matter --it's all about you, etc.. etc.... " Yes, I know. But really???? I did not need to see that W is out with someone who really is beneath her.....educationally, physically, etc......

I'm griping. Someone can bring out the 2X4 anytime but REALLY?????? This is the OW????????? If it weren't so f'in sad i would want to LOL @ W's taste.

Sorry, I'm hurt, angry and really having a hard time tonight. I'm getting my helmet. BRB.

[jbnati]

IS, it seems like I keep seeing this pattern over and over. I see it both here on the MB and with people I know. It seems like so many times, the OP is a downgrade for the WAS. I wonder if it's a by-product of low self-esteem and a feeling of unworthiness?

[aeolianchaos]

Hey IS,

I hear you. I'm not going to bring any 2x4's out because you know better already.. you're just kvetching and LOLing at it because it is absurd.

DBing is about you, but to a degree it is about how you express yourself to another person. Easier if you make real changes to you.. but sometimes you gotta roll w/ what you're experiencing.

There is no accounting for taste -- otherwise I would have never had any girlfriends!!

[25yearsmlc]

Damn that FB. Ok, I am having a dilemma. Actually, it's not so much a dilemma -- but I wanted to see what you guys had to say. I have never so much as tried to look up OW. I didn't want to know anything about her. I don't ask, and so far all I had heard was something incidental from my boss about her being tall, atheletic and blonde. That was enough, didn't want any more. Well tonight I end up seeing accidentally a pic of her through a mutual friend on that stupid FB. The first person I thought was her was quite attractive and i was....wow.... I certainly can understand the attraction. Then i clicked on the pic and NO--- the, well, not so attractive person in the pic is actually OW. Yes, tall - yes blonde. But...not very attractive.

Now, like I said, it was totally accidental -- but I can't get his woman out of my head. it's like a real WTF moment. I'm no Angelina Jolie for heaven's sake, but I honestly believe I'm more attractive than OW. *for the record, my boss had told me this in so many words, but i thought...she was being kind..... So should this make me feel better or worse? You know what I mean?

Yeah, I know the DB answer is 'it doesn't matter --it's all about you, etc.. etc.... " Yes, I know. But really???? I did not need to see that W is out with someone who really is beneath her.....educationally, physically, etc......

I'm griping. Someone can bring out the 2X4 anytime but REALLY?????? This is the OW????????? If it weren't so f'in sad i would want to LOL @ W's taste.

Sorry, I'm hurt, angry and really having a hard time tonight. I'm getting my helmet. BRB.

OMG Mary, I want to shake you...b/c THIS IS GREAT NEWS that I LOVE READING EVERY TIME...seriously....

okay on one hand you can feel miserable and wallow b/c it's like saying

"good grief w, you left ME for THAT?? How much uglier/stupider/nastier must I be, than I realized, for you to pick that Gollum creature over ME??"

I get that. But consider two things, 1) this proves it ain't all about YOU!

If it were all about you, she'd want either to be with the total opposite of someone with your flaws OR, she'd be "moving UP"

SIDENOTE one of my brothers ASSUMED HE would date UP in looks and money when he divorced my beautiful Andy Mcdowell sil. My brother was/is enormous and not that handsome. And a fool.

He had gotten a political job and thought he was the Be all End all...Washington's version of celebrity...but the job ended!! Like they all do w/a new adminstration!

In the end, he married someone much less beautiful and fun than first w.

Don't get me wrong, I love my "new" sil too, and She is still a kind loving woman but we all know he did NOT improve with his 2nd wife at all.

But what my brother wanted, truly, was someone with lower expectations than his first w had. Though 1w's expectations were totally reasonable (like wanting to share parenting, or DO something on a Sunday other than read the paper ALL day) he prefers a woman who is lonely enough to be grateful for his company...so his first w and he,

were not a good match in terms of activity levels and outlook on life.

btw--SHE (ex sil) is much happier than she would have been w/my brother. She remarried an active handsome man who puts the m on top of his priority list...which my brother would/could never do. So there.


2) Mary, Would you REALLY prefer the following scenario? I mean, would THIS make you feel "better" about YOU or the situation?

Scenario-

Your w meets a Catherine Zeta Jones type, (or HER personal fav Hollywood looker) and

OW/Catherine ZJ falls madly in love with your w, and CZJ is a well known "expert" in her field, w/a PhD from Yale. Oh, and she's a Rhodes scholar, who also plays in the Boston symphony b/c btw, she's a musical prodigy, and loves to model on the side due to her insanely sexy good looks.

Needless to say she earns high 7 figures and she LOVES to spend it on your w...she also is a skilled dancer and works out and skiis and (whatever else your w loves) AND she LOVES to travel, - which makes their effortless connection incredibly convenient. It's like they don't need to learn foreign languages either!!

If that^^ happened, then what?


You think we'd pat you on the back and say "Gee, next time Mary, aim lower"...?

Instead, this "regular chick" affair makes more sense as it's what most WASs do, and it bodes better for you.

It means it is about how your w feels when with OW, not OW's qualities or your flaws (unless you were really critical)...

And, if it were actually Catherine Zeta Jones as OW, would you really bother trying hard to get her back? (I wouldn't. But I might want to sue!! )

Wouldn't you just pack it in and Keep the R with s4 going, and move on?

I say, be careful what you wish for, and figure out what it is about plain OW that makes your w feel so special.

IF it is all about w getting bored and wanting more attention, like a 13 y/o girl w/ADD AND like any r can get after 13 years [i]without cultivation, then she'll discover that in time

and you will have learned the opposite lesson, and you will be somewhere very different down the road.[/i]

But If --you already know a lot of the reasons for your w's feelings and what your role was then Those are the changes you are working on.

So Keep doing them.

Keep making the changes you are making to be a more expressive loving shocked Mary...and that's it. Poof! Do that math!

**btw, imo, I would NOT ask her anything about her weekends or time with OW.

It's pursuit AND self inflicted pain. I can't imagine her telling you anything you'd want to know...

I mean if they broke up, and IF she'd tell you,

then you would not have to ask her b/c she would volunteer info like that.

So, don't ask.

And carry on. remember that this is the formula so do the math

consistent change + sufficient time = change she can believe in


and then she'll have to trust that the changes won't revert if you guys reconcile.

AND THEN you two will have to address some other things...cross that bridge when you get to it.

((( )))

[Rick1963]

JS all I want to say is to hang in there. This is one rocky boat we are in. The one the thing that I know will come of all of this is that we will learn about our selves and the screwy things we do/done that we were not aware of. Learning about my self has been both very painful and enlightening at the same time. (((HUGS))))

[In_Shock]

hey jb===

I've noticed that myself in others R. I think you've hit on something with the low self esteem and feeling of unworthiness. I think on some level they really understand what they are doing to their families and LBS. How could one feel GOOD about oneself while destroying a family for very *usually* flimsy reasons???

[In_Shock]

OMG Mary, I want to shake you...b/c THIS IS GREAT NEWS that I LOVE READING EVERY TIME...seriously....


okay on one hand you can feel miserable and wallow b/c it's like saying

"good grief w, you left ME for THAT?? How much uglier/stupider/nastier must I be, than I realized, for you to pick that Gollum creature over ME??"

25years my dear friend....first of all...LOL totally at GOLLUM!!! Yep. It feels like WTF X2 As I've said -- I'm highly educated, successful in my field, with a stellar reputation, and I might add, NOT Gollum....somewhere between Angelina and Catherine Z-J and Gollum...LOL..and I'm left for a barely educated elementary school teacher in podunk nowhere? I had her built up to be this Susan Anton (showing my age) tall blonde thing. But this one? Who isn't even PRETTY???? BLAH!!!


I get that. But consider two things, 1) this proves it ain't all about YOU!

If it were all about you, she'd want either to be with the total opposite of someone with your flaws OR, she'd be "moving UP"

And now that you bring it up, I do see your point. I think jb has hit it with the self esteem thing. One thing W has said frequently to me in the past year or more is that "we don't always have to talk about 'lofty' subjects. I'm just a simple person." Yeah...a simple but very intelligent, educated person. OW is just simple... W seems to need/want that right now. I'm trying to 'dumb' down my convo, but he!l there is so much to talk about. Literature, history(my field btw :)) and news/politics.... Surely I believe W will get bored with talk of 5th grade math and planting flowers.... I WOULD. OMG I would, but that's the intellectual snob in me, 25. I subscribe to Harper's and the New Yorker. No hope for me!!![

Maybe this really IS a totally different person from me? "emotionally connected//// * cough...cough* NOT a PHd or even attempting. "simple" Not me in some ways. Yet me in others...../color]

[color:#FF0000]Once when i was pursing and made a mistake -- i told W that someone had told me OW was a user, a manipulator, etc... and that if I ever felt 'below' OW b/c of W's actions, I should consider comparing our IQs. BIG mistake....LOL. W told me that 'things like that don't matter to me" Funny, it did 13 years ago. She told me one of the reasons she liked me so much was (her words NOT mine) because I'm brilliant. Hmmmm....


2) Mary, Would you REALLY prefer the following scenario? I mean, would THIS make you feel "better" about YOU or the situation?

Scenario-

Your w meets a Catherine Zeta Jones type, (or HER personal fav Hollywood looker) and

OW/Catherine ZJ falls madly in love with your w, and CZJ is a well known "expert" in her field, w/a PhD from Yale. Oh, and she's a Rhodes scholar, who also plays in the Boston symphony b/c btw, she's a musical prodigy, and loves to model on the side due to her insanely sexy good looks.

Needless to say she earns high 7 figures and she LOVES to spend it on your w...she also is a skilled dancer and works out and skiis and (whatever else your w loves) AND she LOVES to travel, - which makes their effortless connection incredibly convenient. It's like they don't need to learn foreign languages either!!

If that^^ happened, then what?


You think we'd pat you on the back and say "Gee, next time Mary, aim lower"...?

Instead, this "regular chick" affair makes more sense as it's what most WASs do, and it bodes better for you.

It means it is about how your w feels when with OW, not OW's qualities or your flaws (unless you were really critical)...

And, if it were actually Catherine Zeta Jones as OW, would you really bother trying hard to get her back? (I wouldn't. But I might want to sue!! )

he he he.... u have a way of making it all make sense. Nah, if CZJ was OW I'd slink off with my proverbial tail b/w my legs and feel all gollum myself

Wouldn't you just pack it in and Keep the R with s4 going, and move on?

I say, be careful what you wish for, and figure out what it is about plain OW that makes your w feel so special.

IF it is all about w getting bored and wanting more attention, like a 13 y/o girl w/ADD AND like any r can get after 13 years [i]without cultivation, then she'll discover that in time

and you will have learned the opposite lesson, and you will be somewhere very different down the road.[/i]

But If --you already know a lot of the reasons for your w's feelings and what your role was then Those are the changes you are working on.

So Keep doing them.

Keep making the changes you are making to be a more expressive loving shocked Mary...and that's it. Poof! Do that math!

**btw, imo, I would NOT ask her anything about her weekends or time with OW.

I dont even acknowledge the life of OW. She doesn't exist in MY universe. Well, unfortunately she does, but NOT when I talk to W. I haven't lowered myself to even mention her in a while....

It's pursuit AND self inflicted pain. I can't imagine her telling you anything you'd want to know...

I mean if they broke up, and IF she'd tell you,

then you would not have to ask her b/c she would volunteer info like that.

So, don't ask.

Got it.
And carry on. remember that this is the formula so do the math

consistent change + sufficient time = change she can believe in


and then she'll have to trust that the changes won't revert if you guys reconcile.

AND THEN you two will have to address some other things...cross that bridge when you get to it.

((( )))


Lots of love and peace to you, my dear friend 25. Hope to meet u in philly soon
[/quote]

[In_Shock]

Rick --- thanks for your consistent support. I will remain there for you also. I follow your sitch with great interest. I hope you keep DBing the best you can and I'm keeping you in my thoughts for sure, man. (big hug)

[In_Shock]

I have been messing up a little bit by bit lately. I've noticed myself slipping in ILY or a hug. Pursuing.... Trying to get reassurances. At least I have really noticed. Now I can STAY AWARE and STOP!!! It began probably on Monday after we went out to eat Sunday night and W was crying over MIL's remarks to her.

For example last night W was on the couch and I came over, gave her a hug goodnight -- snuggled a little and said "ILY" I had been a bit emotional earlier, not quite R talk, but me telling her something to the effect of "I may be an idiot, but I can't just turn off the love I've had for you all these years. And I can't NOT want you to share our bed. I can fill the days but I can't fill my heart right now."

I was being honest -- but I was too emotional. Hadn't done that lately. Truthfully, I had a couple of beers with a friend earlier (remember, I don't drink!! so.....well, the tongue was free...) it's terrible though and I won't do that again b/c I'm not entirely sure of EVERYTHING i did say. Nope, that's why I'm not a drinker!!!

Anyway, as I was snuggling her as I hugged her goodnight she said, "you know, I do love you" I had a few tears come to the surface, turned around and said, "I know. Good night" Went to bed alone. Cried a bit. Got my nook and tried to read a mystery.

Just wanted to confess my transgression and hope for a new start again today!!! Damn this HUMANITY!!! that makes us feel like this. I want a superpower. I want to be able to detach and move on easily like the WAS. I could market that and become very rich.

Thanks for letting me confess and journal. Love to all you DBers. It's a hell of a road we're on, but I keep telling myself something another poster has said....it's better to be us than them in some ways. We are forced to really grow and examine ourselves. I hold on to that.

[Rick1963]

Hi JS they do have non alcoholic beers you know?

Anyway I copied and paste something that Accuray posted on someone elses post (hope he doesn't mind). It is really powerful. It kind makes it clear as to how we should behave with a WAW. Hugs





quote=Accuray]Hello COG,

I've been reading Dobson's "Love Must Be Tough" and it seems to apply directly to your sitch. In the book, he does recommend bringing things to crisis, you should give it a read because he gives a prescription for how to do it, and what to do after the fact. Here's a quote:

"The precipitated crisis first, must be accompanied by an entire change of attitude. Instead of begging, pleading, wringing your hands...you as the vulnerable partner must appear strangely calm and assured. The key word is confidence, and it is of maximum importance. Your manner should say, 'I believe in me, I am not afraid. I can cope, regardless of the outcome. I know something I'm not talking about. I've had my day of sorrow, and I'm through crying..."

"Not that you should say these things with words, or course. In fact, the less said about your frame of mind, the better. It's your private business. One of the great errors made by the vulnerable lover when things begin to deteriorate is to talk too much. His secure partner is noncommunicative, evasive, deceptive, and mysterious. He will not sit down and explain his inner feelings to the one who desperately needs that information."

"I'm recommending that you, the one who has sought to hold the marriage together, now choose your words more carefully too. It is as though you and your mate have been involved in a table game with her hiding her cards and you permitting yours to be seen. This has given the independent partner more information than she should have had, especially about the pain you are experiencing. It is time to be more discreet. No more should you reveal your every thought and plan."

"It is important during this time of crisis not to do predictable things. Having lived with you for years, your partner has you analyzed to a tee. She knows what bugs you, what makes you laugh, and what makes you cry. She has memorized all your little 'prerecorded' phrases that sprinkle your conversation. My advice is that you change these tapes. Don't offer suggestions when you would typically do so. Don't be predictable!"

"Your purpose, you see, is to convince this woman that events are swirling out of control and may take her in directions she has not anticipated. The old rules don't apply. And why is this new mystery advantageous? Because one of the reasons your lover has lost interest in the relationship is that the challenge is gone. It's become so monotonous and routine. Hence, you would be wise to turn the whole thing upside down."

Finally:

"An interesting thing happens when this kind of quiet confidence suddenly replaces tears and self-pity. Curiousity infects the aloof party, and she begins to probe for details. For the first time in months, perhaps, she's coming your way. She's saying 'You seem different tonight,' and 'I hope you're beginning to get over our problems'. She's baiting you to find out what's going on inside. It is uncomfortable for her to observe that changes are occurring which she neither controls nor understands. Tell her nothing. She *needs* to wonder."

It goes on to say that despite your partner's stoic appearance, she will be wrestling with feelings of guilt and self-doubt. There is still a tiny spark for you there, and you have to give it space to kick up into a flame versus smothering it and snuffing it out.

Hope that helps [/quote]