I am little confused SSMGuy;

Two years ago, you showed up on these forums, talked about being in a 10+ year, no sex, SSM, and described how you had previously made the decision to go outside of your marriage in order to have your sexual needs met -- FWB arrangements, prostitutes, strip-club hand-jobs, massages with 'happy endings', and the like. Essentially you described an open marriage in which your wife didn't want to know about the details regarding what you did, just as long as you didn't approach her for sex. You never said how long you had been 'outsourcing' for casual sex, but my impression was that it had been for a year, or more, before your showing up here. One of your justifications for doing this was the following:

(post #1882824 - 2009-11-28 17:12:30)
Originally Posted By: ssmguy
To correct a sentence above, I meant to write, "Having a woman wanting me to touch her breasts or her genitals, or even permitting me to do so, is TOTALLY NEW for me -- never experienced that in my life."

So to elaborate on that, it should give you another perspective on why I'm not, at this time, longing for a long-term fulfilling relationship with another woman involving spiritual communion, etc. I'm just fascinated as heck with women's orgasms, and how easily some women can have them -- that's all a totally new experience for me. I feel like a kid with a new set of toys. I didn't know women could be this much fun in bed. Sure, I knew from books and instructional videos that women have orgasms, but I didn't really think it was such a commonplace thing or that they could enjoy them so much.

Perhaps the best solution for me is to arrange for sessions with one of those sexual surrogates I've heard about in California who can give me some hands on lessons in arousing a woman physically, and so on, and make up for what I missed early on and what is a normal experience for most guys.

So you have to understand how you're kind of losing me a bit when you talk about how I should be reaching for level 6. To me, at this time, the descriptions for levels 5 and 6 sound kind of like boring old-people sex. I DO UNDERSTAND that I would deeply appreciate it once I got to that point. But as a long-time HD male, the lack of erotic content in the level 5 and 6 descriptions sounds entirely penile-deflating. Nothing wrong with spiritual communion, but the concept to me looses the image of the lacy lingerie, the clothes that are tight in just the right places, the candlelight dinner with the flirtatious hints about the pleasures to come later in the evening.


Now today, you write:
Originally Posted By: ssmguy
My reaction to all this talk about deeply committed love, etc. is perhaps like an 18-year-old guy's who's lacking sexual experience to the same degree as I. I mean, gee, I would like to just try a bunch of sexual positions for the first time in my life, see what it's like when a woman has an orgasm, learn from her how she likes it, and just see what it's like to have sex with a woman who likes sex. It's just that simple. That would be just a huge thrill for me. All this talk about waiting and emotionally readjusting and deeply committed relationships... I feel like an 18-year-old listening to a 60-year old giving advice to another 60 year old, in spite of the fact that I will be 60 before too long myself!


So what have you learned in at least 2+ years of sexual exploration, on-the-side of your marriage? I personally don't see any difference, and my impression is that you will never progress beyond the 18-year-old stage of sexual exploration -- you've just been scratching and itch, and learning nothing in the process.

As has been told to you before, REAL sexual fulfillment, not the 'sexual pleasure' that you currently engage in, comes only through linking emotional intimacy with physical intimacy: only then can the true heights of deep 'spiritual' and simultaneous physical connection be achieved (Schnarch's level '6' on his sexual intimacy scale). Most men, at some point in their single lives, find that the casual sexual relationships become 'stale' and 'unfulfilling'. For some this occurs early (as with myself), and for some this occurs much later, but it usually does occur (those for whom it doesn't occur usually remain single). The thing that brings 'flavor' and 'fulfillment' back into sexuality is when it becomes linked with a person that one also has a deep emotional connection with, a person that one 'loves'.

From the sound of it, you haven't moved forward a bit from that time that I was last active on this board. Is that really the case?

-- B.


Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs
S25, D23, S13, S10
20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007