Treading water - time and patience

[In_Shock]

yep and yep --- the script is the same. Are we sure they don't sell it online somewhere to the WAS??? I have said many times in the past few months---- IF SHE HAD TOLD ME she was unhappy, instead of just expecting me to 'mind read' maybe we could have solved the issues that drove her from me.

We all hear it -- it's never any easier. Take care Peter. I'm still living with W and separated. She sleeps on the couch as of just recently...IT IS hard and sometimes I think being apart would be better for my psyche!

[OmegaZed]

Peter

You did good. I would definitely move back in and I would definitely sleep in the marital bed. It shows you still value the marriage and relationship. You truly have to let your W do all the leg work. If she wants out and if she is feeling this way, you have to let her be the one to decide that, don't decide it for her. I'd stick to your thread title, time and patience!

[Harrier]

yep and yep --- the script is the same. Are we sure they don't sell it online somewhere to the WAS??? I have said many times in the past few months---- IF SHE HAD TOLD ME she was unhappy, instead of just expecting me to 'mind read' maybe we could have solved the issues that drove her from me.

We all hear it -- it's never any easier. Take care Peter. I'm still living with W and separated. She sleeps on the couch as of just recently...IT IS hard and sometimes I think being apart would be better for my psyche!

Have you ever considered that your SO was telling you (in their own way), but that you weren't listening?
I'm sorry but the whole 'they didn't tell me' has a victim mentality to it.

[NYCPeter]

Harrier - you may well be right but I'm the sort of guy you need to make things obvious to. Communication, communication, communication - unfortunately we weren't.

[~ kd ~]

NYC, I will not put words in Harrier's mouth... but I will expand on that a bit...

For me, that understanding really boils down to realizing your part in the break down of communication...

Without a doubt, your W... most of our spouses... need to own THEIR part...

When communicating, and I'm sure you are very well of this, NYC... when we want to be sure that something is communicated FROM us TO another... we state, ask the recipient to repeat and express their understanding and if it appears skewed to what we intended, we restate in another way and repeat until we are sure the recipient is clear on our intentions...

But, you also understand that communication is a two way street... and often they say, it's twice as important to listen (actively; using the same techniques as a recipient of information) as it is to speak...

So...

The question to the person who states, "if only they would have told us"... it begs the reflection... "how was I not listening that I did not hear the message, and how can I fix that?"

Own your part for not listening... do not attempt to own your W's part for not being sure you both HEARD AND UNDERSTOOD the message...

make sense...?

[NYCPeter]

KD - I do get it, what I meant was communication in the past.
One of the techniques the MC has been preaching to us is to repeat, express the understanding and have the person sending the message validate that the message has been understood.

I've been trying very hard - but when the message is "We need to seperate because I am stressed when you are around", I validate that she feels stressed and I can understand the stress she is under but don't feel it's appropriate to move out - so I can't take the action my W would like me to take based on communication. So the perception is that I'm not listening.

When I ask if there are other ways I can help remove that stress the response is "I don't know how", I've done a 180 on all the things that caused stress in the past - bringing work home, not spending enough time with the family, not helping enough around the house - it kind of leaves me stumped.

[~ kd ~]

OK, so she expresses her needs, you validate... great...

Then the course of action you take is, to ask if there is any other way you can "fix" and provide for her needs...

Where is the "NYC needs" in the equation?

What's not being communicated is... that she is understanding that YOUR NEEDS dictate that moving out is NOT an option and being without your kids is NOT an option...

Since the only thing you can do is control you... then how do you communicate that while you do understand her needs, her needs directly conflict with your needs...

I understand what you are saying... and I'm stumped, too...

She might THINK you are not listening... can you confirm she has been listening to your needs... and that they directly conflict with her needs... and that some other solution has to be arranged...?

[NYCPeter]

I did ask if there was another way I can make her feel less stressful, she couldn't come up with anything (almost an all or nothing approach).

Has she been listening to my needs - well yes to a degree. During MC one of the things the C suggested was being more tactile to get closer.
For a while my wife was giving me more hugs, kisses etc. She slowed down and only did so when she felt guilty (came home late), when I asked why - she said "it no longer felt natural for her to do that and she was forcing herself".

I'm struggling to think what alternative solution we can come up with in either scenario.
I give her more space, I don't dictate what she does just offer suggestions that she may want to join in. More often than not she does.

If my needs are tactile and more physical - the fact it doesn't feel natural to her precludes me from trying to be more physical with her, otherwise I would be forcing her to do something she doesn't want to do.

[~ kd ~]

hmmmm... ok... so it sounds a bit like an itch your W can't scratch...

IOW, it certainly makes sense in its own way, that your W is unable to give you a solution / answer for what else might alleviate her stress... because... if she knew that... she'd give you an answer... it is very likely that the only solution she can think of is that you move out / stay out... and while it can't be ruled out completely, let's... for a moment... believe her that it is not because of some OM...

Maybe others here can chime in and help offer some possible solutions of how living together, separated, worked for them to give each other the space they needed...

But without a doubt, I'm sure that it will require you to have very strong boundary control... both of your own... and of your W's...

So, we are trying to find a solution that is not a "fixer" / nor an "enabler" solution...

Has your W ever told you she doesn't trust you?

If not, have you ever asked her if she trusts you?

You might offer that, if she really does trust you, then ask her to trust that you will respect her boundaries and need for space... that if she is having anxieties (momentary, not day long or week long) and feelings of being trapped (by your presence) that she use a code word you both agree on, and you will acknowledge the cue and make yourself scarce for an hour or two...

*shrug*

[Harrier]

KD that is certainly part of it.

But also as someone noted in another thread perception is reality to the spouse. So from their end, they were telling you. That's why I think a lot of times, they feel they have nothing to own up to. I don't know how you get around that unless the spouse just suddenly has a revelation or it comes out in IC or MC.

So if a LBS would ever say to their spouse...if you only told me, they'd probably get an earful.

But ultimately, it doesn't matter how you got here. You are here and you can only work on making yourself a better person .

Pete...I think the "active listening" isn't really helping you that much. I think you need to examine the whole communication paradigm...not just the words you say. Everything goes into it.
Think about how you effectivly communicate with people outside of your M. I'm sure you do.

Also, I think either your or your MC is letting your wife off the hook with the "I don't know." thing.

People aren't 100% one way or the other. She wants less stress. Ask her if X makes her less stressful, if she says yes - what is it about it that makes it less stressful.
What about Y?
Your challenge to hear those answers and fit them in within the confines of your needs.