I hear you adinva. Just called W with some numbers and she said that D does not want to go. I said I was concerned about her. W said she didn't think it was strange or a big deal. So I said let me know how can I help and that I will talk to D and explain what it is. She said ok.
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
My p's took me to a counselor when I was about 14. I thought it was ridiculous, lame, embarassing, and stupid. Pretty much scripted teenage thought process. I went once, acted like a jerk, and refused to go back. In hindsight, it would have saved me a lot of circuitous thinking in my life. Could you take her out for coffee (like a grownup)? Tell her you know people can be helped so they feel less anxious and more confident, like a coach of a sport, and could she go once or twice with you to check it out and see if she agrees with you that it could help her? Give her total veto power over the first one but explain that they're people, they're all different, so she should try a few more and see if there's one she could choose. Tell her if she can agree with you to try it for a month or so, she'll at least learn what it's like so later when she's completely grown up and on her own, she'll have that resource to turn to if she ever needs it. That's what I would have told myself if I could go back to age 14.
Keep up the good work
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Get a helmet on and pay attention closely Rick. You don't have a lot of time and you have a lot to learn NOW....
Originally Posted By: Rick1963
Thanks for the advise guys. 25 is right I have only been trully DBing a couple of weeks and have back slid many times. Since my M is hanging on a thread I can only do the LRT at this time. ----
D- I slept downstairs on the couch (the couch in the living room where my WAW has beeen sleeping for 3 months)
M- I said why? ( D was one her way upstairs to get ready for school)
D- Because this cubix rubix (not sure of spelling) keeps mysteriously appearing in my room. (W was in ktichen listening)
D- It's in the trash.
W- who trew it out
D- Mommy and I'm not sleeping in my room again W got relly sad. My D's statements freaked me out. Now I know something is wrong. She is afraid of toys in her room and it broke my heart.
I said what's going on. D said she heard people banging on the house.
This is the convo W and I went.
M- I am worried can I now bring a counselor?
W- I never said you couldn't is just the way you said it.( a few days earlier I asked her if she was ok with it. She did what she always does, blank stare and no answer either way) And you did nothing to follow up. Nothing. You abdicated your job and then blamed her for not taking over OR you blame her for taking over...either way she is without a real partner.
M- The way I said it. ( I stopped my self had a feeling she wanted to blame me so I said this) I want to help her with this. I can have a counselor come to the house or she can talk to my counselor.
W- I will get her her own counselor I'm sure your counselor is good but she knows about your stuff and I don't think its a good idea. M- I understand that. let me know how I can help
W- I will see if I can get her an appoinment locally. I was thinking of taking her to a counselor last year when she was having anxitie attacks during school presentations.
I thought about her last statement. She told me in passing as usual that D was not doing presentations in school due to fear. I know all about public speaking all 3 of us hate them. But I was surprised that W never talked to me that she was thinking of taking her to a counselor. When D made those comments I went into the I needed to know more, and almost did what I usually did, interrogate. This is why your w did not tell you.^^^^ and your next sentence...
It became very clear to me as to why I blow up on W. So instead of a strong supportive h, she has a blamer who blows up when there is trouble with the child. You become Exactly the opposite of what YOUR WIFE OR DAUGHTER NEED then...
It goes something like this. I will either make a suggestion or talk to W about something that might need doing. Whether stuff around the house, D's schooling etc. I usually am met with either a blank stare, I don't know or out right rejection of a suggestion. So either way I usually think that W is saying NO. that's YOUR problem, not hers. She did not say "no" and you do nothing to follow up. Or you interrogate, AND then you lose your temper.
I'm kind of stunned that you haven't seen this as your baggage.
She usually does things without me knowing or discussing it with me.
can you see why?
perfect example, last summer I said to W that we should have the AC system maintained. She said why spend the money if it ain't broke. So last summer we had a heat wave and the AC went. Cost me 600$ bacause it was an emergency call. If I had it checked earlier in the season it would have cost 200$. WHY IS THAT^^^ YOUR W'S FAULT? She gave her opinion but did not say "no" and then you did nothing about it. But then you blamed her when it failed.
If it had worked fine all year, would you have thanked her for keeping you from wasting money on maintenance? Have the spine to follow through with something if her opinion doesn't persuade you. Do it yourself! . So when W does not say to go ahead I just take it as she is saying no. rick, this ^^^ is YOUR perception and it's not reality. It's you wanting HER to make the decision
but when she offers an opinion you back off and abdicate to her, so she is in a no win situation that must frustrate her a lot.
But when sh@@@t hits the fan and I say I told you so
OMG****that^^^^ statement right there = blame and it's among the most destructive uneccessary things to say in life. It encourages deceit in your partner, b/c you cannot handle them making mistakes so you throw it in their faces -(that what "I told you so" Means...)AND
worse, you blame them for mistakes that don't necessarily belong to THEM anyhow... like half this stuff sounds like your mistake, OR jointly made mistakes...
she blames me for not doing something as in this morning regarding getting a counselor. Get your daughter a c yourself. Now. If you are half as worried as you claim, then be her dad and act.
Stop dumping all the messy stuff on your w, and then telling her 'I told you so' when the [censored] hits the fan
and you stand by whining that you were right and 'Something has to be done' but not by you b/c no one told you to... I hope my kid survives this unharmed. I hope W sees that she is hurting my D's life, me and her own life.
I hope YOU see how your sabotaging passive aggressive role affects your m and d and wife. I pray you will Open your eyes.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I know what I wrote was tough to read and I'm sorry if your feelings are hurt.
But for all the things you have said and done, not to see how damaging that passivity is
and how harmful the "i told you so"s are, you have to see this asap.
You seem sincerely bewildered.
But that post of yours revealed more to me, about the dynamics in your family
and YOUR role in them, than all the others combined.
Try to use that information well.
You are not powerless Rick. You have a lot of work to do on YOU.
And that's good news.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
No 25 you did not hurt my feelings. I'm here in this forum to make changes. I read every response and other's sitch and try to learn from them. To be honest, some of what I do/done is just coming to light and have been noticing patterns with my father and brother. All 3 of us married strong women and all 3 of us behaved the same. We are dependent on them, sad to say that and blame them when things go wrong. I have been talking to my brother about what I have learned so far about me since he tends to do the same. He is having financial issues and fights with his W alot. I warned him to watch what he says and does or he may end up in a similar situation.
25 you are right on point about my behavior. Many times I depend on my W to take care of stuff and my excuse has been that she is home most of the time and I'm not. I couldn't fix what I didn't know was broken. So this is my baggage as you say I can look at it and see how I can change that. There are so many instances that I acted in the way I described above even when doing yard work. I would tell W I was going to trim the bushes but she did not like that idea so she would do it. So some of it is me some of it is her. So the bushes keep growing. This morning I talked to D and told her I want her to see a C. I said if I and mommy were having a hard time with what is happening that I think she might be too. She if you want me to see a C I will. I said we can try it out and see how you like it. I used Advina's words told her is something like a sports coach. She laughed.
Now is the other part that I have become aware of about me. When I decide to do something without W's approval or discussing it with her I get really anxious and afraid that she will be angry with me even if it is something that needs to be done.I feel like I'm walking on egg shells. And that fear has sometimes stopped me from doing things also. Not sure what it all means or how to explain it.
Now that my D has agreed to see a C. Do I make the appoinment or tell W that she has agreed. W said yesterday that she wanted to make the appoinment if D wanted to go? I need your input on this.
^^^^^^^This is what happens alot to us. The last sentence. WTH???
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
Yea Rick! I'm so glad D is willing to go. You're doing a good thing.
Based on my M situation, I'd say you need to learn how to negotiate more effectively with W - the key is concrete, specific terms and verbalized agreement. Let her know how important this is to you, ask her to schedule right away (by x day) and let you know the appt details. Suggest if she can't get to it by x you'll go ahead and set one up. At the risk of being repetitive you need to listen for and hear her agreement that she will set it up by x and let you know. It never hurts to add appreciation for her taking the role.
Would you see this as different from how you've interacted with her in the past? Think she'll see this as a change?
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Don't want to throw a wrench into anything. Maybe just offer an observation. You mentioned "strong woman" and your fear of being assertive. Then you transition into, "should I ask permission". Taking your D to therapy when there are marital problems only sounds right to me. They get to talk to someone neutral. Why ask permission, why not just tell W that you think it's important and scheduled an appointment. Offer to let her take your D if she wants.
This might come of weird, but I think strong women can get put off by overly submissive behavior. I also think she will get mad at you when you stop. But I don't know if that's really a bad thing.
Adinva and love is atrip been calling this morning and trying to get appoinments.
Journaling
Got home from work last night and W was cooking. She looked at me and said hi with a smile. I said high back (practicing LRT). Looked at the mail on the counter and saw that my L had sent me the response. I'm assuming W saw it since she brought the mail inside. W and I ate dinner and she was smilling and talking about politics and what have you. She even mentioned that my political views have changed. I did not argue and agreed. We also talked about our dying dog and that maybe we need to put him down.
But what surprised me the most was that she got dinner started for tonight as she is working at the office and I usually do the cooking. She has not done this since this all started. All I have to do is cook it. For the last 2 months on Wednesdays she has told me to eat whatever and that she will make something for herself when she got home from work. Last night she even asked if she could open a bottle of wine that I got from my staff after my father's passing. I said ofcourse. I'm very appreciative of her gestures and trying to not read into it.
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
Told W last night that D14 had agreed to see a IC. W said that it was fine. I thought she would reject the idea but didn't. This morning on my way to work the IC counselor called me and gave me an appoinment for 10/10. She said that she may have a cancellation this Saturday. Called W to let her know and we had a strange convo. She spoke in a weird manner there was silence at times as if she did not want to hang up follow by some strange answers. W said that D may not want to get Saturday and to keep the Ocotober appoinment. W asked if I or she will take her, I said either one of us. I trully hope W takes her so she can speak to the IC also and get some help. I said have a great day she said the same and we hung up.
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
