Hi LisaLost,

Your situation is TOUGH! 6 kids, 3 PA's, you thought it was all good, and now you're seeing backsliding, my heart goes out to you. As bad as this reads, I have to assume there has been a lot of good in your M as well -- in order for you to want to have 6 kids together, there has to be a lot of good there too right?

As a man, your H's sexual appetites seem fairly extreme to me -- reaching out to swingers, 3 PA's to do things "he would not disrepect you with", watching porn as a requirement when you ML -- there's a lot going on there.

I think all men have sexual fantasies, but there is certainly a line there you do not cross when you're invested in a marriage. At one point your H made the decision that pursuing the fantasy was more important than the M, stepped over the line, and now he seems to be okay with doing so again. Based on your posts, it sounds like maybe he's not willing to do a PA again, but he's definitely pushing the boundaries of what would be considered to be faithful by exchanging bikini pictures with a swinger!

Pat Love has a checklist on her website (downloads section) to help you define what's "over the line" from the perspective of marriage -- it may be worth reviewing and discussing that list with your H to try to gain some agreement on what is OK and what is not. It's important that you be in agreement on where that line is drawn, and right now it sounds like the line is what he defines it to be, versus what you agree upon. For me, e-mailing with a woman about her appearance and how much you appreciate it would be cheating. The simplest definition I've heard is that if you are saying or doing things you wouldn't want your spouse to hear / see / read, then you're over the line already.

It also seems to me that your H's sexual needs are not being met -- and there's a good chance that his "needs" are so extreme that you're not going to want to meet them. That's probably a discussion you need to have with him, uncomfortable though it may be. The "I got to do things with them I would not disrespect you with" statement is very revealing. He obviously has an agenda with items on it he doesn't even think are worth bringing to your attention because he feels there is no way you'll engage. I think if you have the discussion with him "tell me what an ideal married sex life looks like to you", you'll at least know where you stand and what he's thinking. Then, you can decide what to do about it (which may be to leave).

One thing I can share from a male perspective is the concept brought up in "The 5 Love Languages" which you MUST read (per 25yearsmlc). The author discusses the concept of a "love tank". There are things our spouses do to fill up our love tank, and we each have our own "love language" that we require to have it filled. i.e. for some, "works of affirmation" make us feel loved, for others it's "acts of service", for others, it's gifts, etc. Our natural inclination is to love our spouse the way we choose to be loved. If that's not what your spouse "needs" however, you'll both be frustrated as you are giving, but you're not giving in the way he values.

According to the book, if our spouse is making us feel loved in the way we need it, and our "love tank" is full, then we walk around happy and satisfied, and really immune to affairs, as there's nothing we're missing and we wouldn't want to disrupt this steady supply of love we're receiving.

NOT mentioned in the book is the fact that I think some people also have a "sex tank", which is to say that they need a certain frequency / intensity / experience etc. If the sex tank stays full, once again we're not walking around with unmet needs. If it's low or empty, however, we'll get increasingly desparate about having it filled, and this will influence our actions. MAYBE increasing frequency, or changing intensity / approach will help to fill this tank, and stop your H's wanderings, maybe not, but being able to fill the tank relies upon you first understanding HOW he needs it to be filled and what exactly he's looking for.

I guess my last thought is that constant porn during ML just doesn't seem at all acceptable unless you were both really into it. To your point, occasionally may be OK, but not every time. That would make me feel very badly and devalued, and this experience is supposed to be about both of you!

Just a few thoughts

Accuray


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015