Ken, I'm so touched that you still come here to support me. I put a high value on your input.
I like your point on apologies. I remember once when I was child, there was a children's sermon that talked about how words are like toothpaste. Once it comes out, you really can't get it back into the tube, and you just have to deal with the mess.
I can agree that apologies can definitely be seen as a way to make the apologizer feel better and get "off the hook" as it were. It reminds me of the view out there that there is no such thing as true altruism. People do kind things for others because it makes them feel good, and is therefore self-serving.
I think me getting a better hold of my life (less driving, more time for me, more time for D, less financial dependence on H) will make me a better spouse because I can then focus on the M instead of struggling because I'm barely keeping my head above water.
I went to the apt complex yesterday. It's modest, but safe and family oriented. And 8 minutes from work. Oh that would be glorious. The only problem is that they only lease for 12 months. I'm going to talk to sister today and ask if she would be comfortable with a 12 month lease and see if she thinks she could potentially find another roommate if I were to move back in with H sooner than that. I was really looking for say, 3-6 months.
H is also very uncomfortable with 12 months. I told him I was going to talk to sister about it and let him know.
I made it clear to him that even if he asked me to move home today, I wouldn't do it. It seemed to surprise him. He asked why: M: Because I'm not ready. You piss me off too much** **I realize that HE does NOTHING to me, I choose to be affected by his behaviors.... H: Oh. Well, what could I do to make it better M: Just stop being such a d!ck. I feel like I have 2 children when I'm with you. Rather than being thankful that I made dinner for you the other night, all you did was complain about various things. Why can't you just be grateful I made you something? Something YOU asked for! H: I guess I'm just Asperger's or something.... M: Right.
But I think this was the first time he realized that I'm very unhappy with him as a person right now. I think he just thought that this situation was completely in his control. I don't think he had a clue that I would ever tell him no if he were to ask for me to come home.
I still enjoy him as a friend. Very much so. We're going to see Moneyball today (yea stats nerds). And he is still a wonderful daddy. But as a H, he is friggin exhausting.
This brings me to Ken's point on perspectives of catastrophic events. I loved your example of your D's toy breaking. Very appropriate. And while I can certainly appreciate that his viewpoint is just as valid and just as important as mine, the way in which we handle things is also important.
Example: One of my students usually buys lunch at school. For whatever reason, his parents want to send lunch now. So he doesn't need to go through the line. His is autistic and doesn't get this. So when we go to the cafeteria and we tell him to go directly to the table and sit, he has a meltdown. Even when we present him with his food, he has a meltdown. He wants to go through the line. He doesn't understand why we're breaking the routine. It's catastrophic to him. He cries, he screams, he hits the table and he runs away from me trying to go through the line.
I totally get why he is tripping out. I do. And it's valid. But screaming, running, and hitting is ridiculous.
I'm just over the ridiculous. I felt like H was throwing a classic bratty tantrum and does this on a pretty regular basis. I mean, no screaming and yelling, but he just gets very narrow minded and bullheaded when he's challenged. And just outright says mean, often untrue things.
He said something to me last night that he's never told me. He's always been on my a$$ about drinking sodas (honestly it was my only vice). I just always viewed it as one of his weird, controlling quirks. I know he personally doesn't like to drink it, and the way he presented the argument was that he thought it was "gross". So I just figured it was a personal preference that he didn't like (like me telling someone not to eat liver and onions because they gross me out). But last night was the first time he told me that he doesn't like me drinking soda because he thinks they're genuinely unhealthy for me and it concerns him. Like if I were to start smoking. He's concerned that it would hurt me. He never presented it to me like that.
I know he's not really strong on communication (I've actually IQ tested him on this... he was always my guinea pig in grad school). And this is usually why toddlers have temper tantrums. They can't communicate either. But we've got to figure something out for this issue without me being too "psychologist-y" (when I try to figure out what he's REALLY getting at, I often get accused of this).
I finally ran my 5k today. I was pleased with the time given that my leg cramped up and I had to walk about half of it. But I was just very proud of myself.
May I think you make a really good point about what Ken said, and I would have to agree. ExBF has his points of view but the way he copes and communicates is NOT OKAY. Shutting down, running away, abusing me, reacting and pointing fingers at me is not okay behavior and not justifiable (except based on his traumatic past, but heck he's 33 - get over it).
I also am admiring how you are taking care of yourself and how you now have H's attention! Wow. I long for that day - that he might give me his attention and listen to how he hurt me and see his own behavior, but we have a long road yet and I don't know that that will even ever happen.
Oh, and the rest of your post reminds me of something I read in a Gottman book (I love the work of John Gottman) - his assistant answered:
"....what the passage is saying, is that there are skills that can be taught for discussing these hot button issues that perpetually come up in relationships, but the skills alone will not save the relationship. It is also important for the couple to learn to discuss and understand each individual’s dreams, hopes, fears and/or past experiences that are attached to the “annoying” behavior. Once couples can come to an understanding of the motivation behind the behavior, they are better able to empathize and discuss without or with less anger about the behavior. I hope this answer helps."
dueinMay, congrats on the 5k, you finished and thats whats important. next time you'll be quicker.
yes, there is a separation between his right to his feelings, and how he responds. keep this in mind and your dealings with him will be slightly easier.
when discussing this, be clear with him about the two. validate his right to his feelings, and tell him how he can improve his response for you. "i understand you're angry, but when you respond this way, i get hurt, angry and we cannot fix the problem"
if you observe his family dynamic chances are he has been trained to get his way by responding like this. he probably got his way by throwing tantrums.
and i agree there is no true altruism, this is Ayn Rand's view which i absolutely agree with. every action we have, is to get something in return. (and yes, this applies to me being here)
all our actions (and responses) are based on how we learned how to get our way. good responses, or screaming, anger, sex, flirting, passive aggressive, are all techniques to get what we want. and this includes how to prevent what we dont want.
with this in mind, a persons responses are not intrinsically wrong. (they may not be good for the relationship) but on an individual, purely self-serving level, the responses are what the person has learned or been taught, as a working method to get what they want.
so dont view him as an idiot, or insane, or wrong. he just never learned the proper responses for having a relationship with you. (and this is all related to the theory of love languages)
and i would guess that in the past, he probably got what he wanted with you by throwing tantrums. or by a less reactive method.
so like you said, now its a matter of reprogramming. when a child throws a tantrum, you have to disengage. and your own reprogramming is the start.
as always, this is all about you. you cannot control nor change him, you cant make him stop throwing tantrums. you cant make him see anything.
but you can control your response and expectations which are the key to all your other emotions. eventually, he'll learn that tantrums dont work and then he'll adjust accordingly.
and in my opinion, this is boundaries. which apply only to your expectations and responses. you set the boundaries on yourself, not on the other person.
i think its good you're not moving back in yet, but it sounds necessary. as long as its done to help you (and the relationship) and not to punish him. and that he understands this. it may have a negative affect on him.
"In a ham and eggs breakfast, the hen is involved, but the pig is committed".
dueinMay, congrats on the 5k, you finished and thats whats important. next time you'll be quicker. Well done May!
yes, there is a separation between his right to his feelings, and how he responds. keep this in mind and your dealings with him will be slightly easier.
when discussing this, be clear with him about the two. validate his right to his feelings, and tell him how he can improve his response for you. "i understand you're angry, but when you respond this way, i get hurt, angry and we cannot fix the problem" nice insights
if you observe his family dynamic chances are he has been trained to get his way by responding like this. he probably got his way by throwing tantrums.
and i agree there is no true altruism, this is Ayn Rand's view which i absolutely agree with. every action we have, is to get something in return. (and yes, this applies to me being here) I'm a huge Ayn Rand follower but I hope that people actually read her books, including "The Virtue of Selfishness" or they will misconstrue what it meant HERE... (or they won't get it)
she's easy to misconstrue b/c she's brilliant and many people cannot or will not read what she actually wrote
b/c the books are too long or too heavy and dense, requiring thought and concentration... so they intrepret her poorly and misquote/mischaracterize.
I can say It's in our interests to help others at times...not at our expense but b/c
we place a value on safe neighborhoods and civility and cooperation, for example. Morality is in our interests...wow, I'm about to get too into Rand for here...moving on!!
all our actions (and responses) are based on how we learned how to get our way. .. with this in mind, a persons responses are not intrinsically wrong. (they may not be good for the relationship) but on an individual, purely self-serving level, the responses are what the person has learned or been taught, as a working method to get what they want. so dont view him as an idiot, or insane, or wrong. he just never learned the proper responses for having a relationship with you. (and this is all related to the theory of love languages) ^^^ true and i would guess that in the past, he probably got what he wanted with you by throwing tantrums. or by a less reactive method. yikes...hmmm
so like you said, now its a matter of reprogramming. when a child throws a tantrum, you have to disengage. and your own reprogramming is the start.
great point!
as always, this is all about you. you cannot control nor change him, you cant make him stop throwing tantrums. you cant make him see anything.
but you can control your response and expectations which are the key to all your other emotions. eventually, he'll learn that tantrums dont work and then he'll adjust accordingly. true and or, probably
and in my opinion, this is boundaries. which apply only to your expectations and responses. you set the boundaries on yourself, not on the other person.
I liken this ^^^ to states with jurisdictions May. Iowa doesn't tell NY what to do and Florida doesn't tell New Jersey to change their law on property ownership.
Similarly, we all have our own boundaries/jurisdictions or "sandboxes" -our choices/issues and our own baggage and free will, whichever metaphor works best for you.
You can't tell him how to run his state, but you can tell him about YOUR laws in YOUR state...there may be times when you two have to agree on where the border between states is though...
get a map?
i think its good you're not moving back in yet, but it sounds necessary. as long as its done to help you (and the relationship) and not to punish him. and that he understands this. it may have a negative affect on him.
^^^ be really clear here. Especially since he believed he had all the power in this.
I happen to think it's great he realizes he does NOT. And why would HE?
The roles of WAS and LBSer often shift subtly, but perceptibly [b]and I think it's a very good thing.[/b]
I believe (no "research," just my gut) that most successful reconciliations have this occur in there, somewhere.
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
yes 25yearsmlc, its tough to bring Ayn Rand into a discussion without including the whole of her thoughts. its as if each piece of her philosophy must be read and understood simultaneously to really sink in. there are so many caveats and nuances and intricacies that easily confuse people. mention the word Selfishness and everyone automatically associates it with its negative connotations and further reading cannot undo this.
to your 'Yikes' response. i attempted to trim things down and editing removed some of my thoughts.
the whole of it is that our actions are to get something in return. we have a list of working actions, incrementing in severity. as the lower level actions don't produce results we increase the severity till we get what we want. everyone has a different set of actions. some only have one.
for many people the actions never evolved from childhood to adulthood. we still expect the tantrums to work on spouses like they did on parents. we think snide remarks still work. or what other methods we grew up with.
and maybe this is the true growth from childhood to adulthood.
and another important aspect of this is expectations which drive frustration.
if you're frustrated, its not necessarily the other person's fault, but because of invalid expectations. if dueinMay expect her husband to progress at a pace she determined, its not his fault she's frustrated. its hers for creating expectations.
likewise he has expectations based on his mis-perceptions that he 'has hand'.
(of course, thats not to say its wrong to have expectations for another person within a relationship. but you must have valid expectations)
to me, if you know a persons habits and how they react, and this person is consistent, you have the right to be upset the first few times that person reacts. after that, you should know better. any anger or disappointment is purely self inflicted.
"In a ham and eggs breakfast, the hen is involved, but the pig is committed".
i dont get that, he's autistic, and therefore his routines are extremely important to him, thats how he maintains understanding/connection/peace with his world.
why not just put his food from home on a tray a let him walk through the line?
"In a ham and eggs breakfast, the hen is involved, but the pig is committed".
I was wondering the same thing ... I can see the parents not wanting to pay for lunch anymore - if they can't afford it and want to send him to school with something from home, but I'm sure there are ways around it, no? (wow - way off topic -)
