Are there any midlife women who want daily sex?

[TeaEarlGreyHot]

"Unless or until she changes her mind about this or this marriage comes to an end, I see no path out."

Yep, you drew a line in the sand, didn't you? How's that working for you?

Of course it would seem like that to you you. While I understand the metaphor, there is no sand except the beach where I've been this weekend and there is no line. However, using that metaphor, I am far less likely to draw "a line in the sand" than those around me.

As for how it's working for me...so far I've kept my sanity and haven't walked away from the marriage. I have a housemate to share some experiences with. On the *expectation* of sex within the context of marriage (and it is an expectation, not a legal requirement), I am disappointed.

There is also some history here; she did much the same thing to her second husband by withholding sex while spending "his money" on stuff to intentionally irritate him (and he was a much more "controlling" character than I am) while sleeping with her first husband (unbeknownst to husband no 2. Husband no. 1 walked away from that first marriage). When husband no. 2 was offered a promotion that included a move to a new city, she drew the "line in the sand" to tell him she (and her daughter by husband no. 2) was not going. That ended the marriage (all before I met her).

Or how about this after we got married? My son was struggling with this and both my ex-wife and my new wife knew this (now both his parents were married to someone else and the desire to have your parents together is a real one). Part of this was also being 12-13 years old. Yet, my current wife was dissatisfied with my *parenting* on this issue and told me that she could "not stand to be around him." And she said that when he was at our new house (usually on weekends) she would not be there.

It did not take me long to see how toxic that situation was. On weeknights, it was easy to see him according to the agreement between my ex-wife and I since I worked only a few minutes away from where she lived (and where I used to live). Without getting into details, I explained to him and my ex-wife that things were very, very difficult over in my household and that I thought it best that I limit the time that he spent in my household. That eliminated some portion of the interactions that took place prior to the marriage.

The compromise I came up with was that I would spend many of my weekend days and some evenings with him doing things that were important to his development and time with his father. Ultimately this meant that my wife (and her daughter, his stepsister) did not see him or any of the things that he was involved with. For seven years there was inclusion in this blended family prior to the marriage and all of a sudden there was none. There was only one interaction when my stepdaughter graduated high school and the next one when my son graduated.

So who "drew the line in the sand?"

From here, I cannot imagine being your W and starting a sexual R with you. You sound extremely passive aggressive. You've locked a no-win situation in stone. Her libido is at 0, and you require her to both initiate and be horny and enjoy sex for anything to be different. It is not going to happen.

Of course you can't because it does not fit what you think you know. I said nothing about her having to be horny, you assume that is a prerequisite. Yet there is a statement of fact that she has to initiate.

As I have pointed out (and I think I've mentioned more than once in my past writings), my concern was that if we did not do something to give sexual intimacy some level of importance, that it would slip away and we would end up with a non-sexual marriage. I said it to her more than once both before and after I violated her boundaries. That is something that she recently acknowledged was a concern on my part.

She also acknowledges the agreement to the way we would proceed, though she says now she wishes we had not done it that way. As I have said before, we agreed to a procedure (after she accepted my apology and reason why I persisted and violated her personal boundaries) by discussing various issues that included the sexual ones. That procedure included acceptance ("yes" on some point or issue) that likely included room for expansion, counter-offer (which was a no or partial no with "how about this as an alternative to consider"), and rejection (a "no" on some point or issue that closes the issue). And according to the procedure we agreed to, only the person who declines or rejects an offer could reopen it for discussion (hence, the reasoning why I had not no further discussion with her about our sex life or made any comments about being in a sexless marriage. Technically, discussing it here is a violation of that agreement).

She admitted that she did not expect me to literally follow the agreement we outlined and she also expected me to break my promise (to not bring this up or to complain about it) given how important sex seemed to me and my experience in my previous marriage.

She acknowledges that she withdrew permission for me to be sexual with her (and reminded me that I don't have permission to be sexual with anyone else, which is the only reason why this conversation between her and I came up). But that point was reaffirmed, I do not have permission.

So while I said I missed the closeness that we once experienced, that I knew (and did not say) that once she said she was unwilling to give any commitment to sexuality (after six months of discussions) that she would never attempt to initiate sex with me again (I wrote that down contemporaneously) and she admitted that on occasion she missed that closeness, she could not explain why she was unwilling to even approach the topic with me (she called it an irrational fear).

This from a therapist who is trained to identify and deal with people's issues and to develop strategies to deal with "irrational fears."

Do you think after 14 years it is time to quit stubbornly sulking and try something different?

How about an apology? "W, I let us both down, I am deeply sorry. 14 years ago I didn't respect your boundaries. When you tried to enforce them, I reacted badly. Then I tried to force the answer I wanted from you about a commitment for sex, and when I didn't get it, I made it extreme in my own head. I made believe that you said that you would never have sex with me again and that if I ever tried to change that you would count that as me ignoring "no means no." But you didn't say that. I have been stubbornly sulking for 14 years. I have been waiting for you to come over to me and make it all better. Instead, I should have let go of my fiction years ago and tried to be a partner to you, including being a sexual partner, instead of a stubborn, sulking, self-indulgent needy boy. I've been working on changing that, on being a better man. With that has come a wait loss. And with that comes a man who insists on having a better partnership with his W, including a better sexual partnership. I love you, I miss you, I ache for you. Let me have space to learn and grow. Hear my apology. Let us heal."

I have to get on the road and drive back through some heavy rain but I haven't been sulking, needy, or stubborn on this. I've been silent. I've put no threat or pressure on her about this.

Her boundaries are her boundaries, they always have been. Even if we don't act on it immediately, the first step is for her to give permission to be sexual once again. With her now at age 65 and me at 58, with her no longer having a uterus and ovaries for whatever hormones might mitigate this, this "apology," many parts of which I have already provided would be unlikely to move anything.

For her QVC seems preferable to being with me. Just an observation

The Captain