Finally confronted H on affair...Now what????

[keep_going]

Today I need to vent...

I woke up feeling down and had OW in my thoughts. Common assumptions on this board are that Hs will take up with OWs who share their weaknesses. "Just bandaids, drugs, short-term pain relievers. Of no long-term importance."

My gut tells me that that is NOT my Hs sitch. I know it's not just about sex - he dotes on her, he does everyday things for her. Ex: he bought and mailed some car parts for her. They talk for HOURS on the phone every morning and night. He writes and shares his poetry and journal entries with her (he had NEVER written anything in the 19 years we've been together). They text whenever they are not on the phone and exchange pics of their kids and everyday lives. They are pretty much 24/7.

I do realize that when they are actually together physically (she lives in Oakland and we live in LA), they are really living a fantasy life - fancy hotel suites, romantic dates and outings that have nothing to do with their everyday lives dealing with kids, finances, family issues, etc.)

Yet he shares EVERYTHING with her. So what is left for him to share with me? Only superficial chit-chat, financial and kid-related logistics... But he likes me being a good mom to his kids and how I take care of them. (probably relieves his guilt as he tells himself kids are ok...)

I feel so helpless. No matter how much I have changed in our dynamic, there is NO ROOM for me to make any inroads in our R, apart from a friendship as long as she is in the picture.

Right now I feel that their affair will survive in the long run... They are going against all the odds as is, and they know it. H has said to me "we know we are giving up a lot with our choice. We are paying a steep price for it. We know that we have been living our relation in a fantasy world, and we now want to do it in reality."

He has told me he wants MY children to get attached to her. He also says that the fact that he has not introduced her to the family doesn't make the R "less legitimate..."

He is always concerned about her reputation and is worried sick that I will expose the details of the affair and that everyone will know she cheated on her H. He doesn't care what I say about him cheating on me, because he feels he has done nothing wrong, since PA didn't start until we separated (even though the EA started when he was still living with me

He tells people (and me) that he wants me to be happy, find a nice man that will love me as much as I deserve, that he wants me to date, that I am a great person with a big heart, blah, blah, blah. It hurts so much when he says things like that"

He has it all planned out - to slowly introduce OW at work, with friends and family, so they think their R started just recently and that way he will erase all the months they spent together in secret and behind both their spouses and everyone else...

I know my H - he is not the kind to go off and have affairs to satisfy his manly needs... He has always said he needs lots of love and affection and attention and he gets that from her. (I wasnt' giving him that in our M, and I know that.) He feels loved, appreciated and validated. I have changed and are now giving him all that, as much as he allows me to... But given the sitch, ther is just so much I can do... he won't let me get affectionate physically with him (apart from hello and goodbye hugs when he is in a good mood). OW is always there to fillfull his needs... And by not pressuring him re. our R, there is just so much affection I can show to him. All the attention and affection I give him, he just takes as a friend...

That is what has me most discouraged - is the fact that no matter what I do, I cannot compete with OW.

Most of the time (except for when we argue), he treats me very friendly - like the boyfriend who is breaking up with his girlfriend because he simply has moved on and wishes her the best... Never mind that we spent 19 years together, 13 of those married. Never mind that we grew up as adults together, that I gave him the best of me, my best years, everything - both good and bad. Never mind that no matter how bad, I never stopped trying, like he did. Never mind that we have 3 kids together.

He just decided to walk away merely two weeks after finding out I was pregnant and a month after we bought our "family home, the place where our children would grow up and where we would grow old together."

He has given up what many (including I) would consider "a good deal" for someone else's leftovers. As of right now, OW is not planning to move to S CA, since daughters are in school...So I guess he will have to move up north...

He always dreamed of a family, successful career and a good marriage. He has given up the possibility of all of that (which is what I think we can achieve together), for someone else's leftovers - a long-distance R, where OW spends with him the time that she is not working or with her own family. That must be true love, otherwise, how would you explain it...

It seems on paper like such a complex sitch for them, yet they are both pursuing it. I have learned now to move aside. No OW talks from me, no drama. I just pretend like she doesn't exist. He doesn't bring it up, unless it affects logistics of being with the kids - like going out of town.

How can I believe everyone who says "wait til they confront reality, wait till the high is over" when all I see is MY H treating this W better than he ever treated me in probably the last 5 - 7 years...

And no - I am no saint. I had A LOT of responsibility in making our M a sad one... But I didn't give up, I didn't let another man touch me, I didn't run to someone else's arms. I didn't walk away. I am here, with our 3 children, trying to save our M unilaterally and make sure their world makes some kind of sense.

Am I being a doormat? Do I need to set firmer boundaries? Where do I go from here? I will be talking to my DB coach in a week from today (first avail time), but I feel like months of treating him as a friend have not yielded any results except for that - being friends...Will they ever yield results while OW is there?
And how is that R ever going to fail? They have been together for 8 months now, both in secrecy and now more in the open, and their R is only getting stronger and stronger every day...

I keep reading of other cases where affairs sizzle and end, but how can this one end, if H and OW DON"T consider it an affair, but a serious R with "the love of their lives"?????

Any feedback or input will be appreciated, although I am not sure if anyone is getting my posts now...

[Queen_of_Swords]

Dear Keep_going,

I see something that put me on alert in your situation, because I recognize the behavior I still fight against in interactions with STBX.

This:

He came home after the game and I made him his favorite soup and really focused on him. Historically he is very accident-prone and sickly, and he LOVES to be taken care of... He was very thankful when he left.

and this:

I made him dinner and gave him some pain meds. to take home (he had none). Before he left he once again gave me a big hug and thanked me for everything I had done in the past couple of days.

I said "You don't have to thank me I am happy to help take care of you and you know I worry about your health.

Yes it's about empathy and care and loving...
but is HE interpreting it as such or as mothering or control?

If so this could be trouble. Things really deteriorate quickly when you are perceived as mother or an authority figure in your M.


Just a caution, you may have to back off a bit.

[keep_going]

Q of S,

Thanks for your feedback. I actually thought about it along the same lines as you did. I actually usually question most of my interactions with H (good and bad)... Why?
It's hard for me to draw the line between showing affection and being attentive (which would be a 180, since he complained about me lacking in that area during our M), and being clingy, smothering or pressuring.

Where to draw the line? Is it in the comments? Should it only be actions and no words?

OTOH, what about the notion of being a doormat? Or cake-eating? All these are notions that I struggle with. WHERE DO U DRAW THE LINE & SET LIMITS, but at the same time do 180s and practice DB techniques???

There are days where I feel like I should do nothing for H so he could miss me. Others where I feel like he treats me like a doormat when I am affectionate and attentive. And others where I feel he has the best of both worlds, with me taking care of him here and OW taking care of him in everything when he is with her...

I usually struggle and my behavior varies (as you can see from my posts), based on this ambivalence, but I ultimately try to revert to what my DB coach says - be his friend, be there for him, show support, and make myself, the kids and home environment such that he feels safe, comfortable and loved here so he wants to spend more time with us and eventually will want to come back...

It's sooooo hard to define what is best, specially when H's behavior itself is also so confusing - sometimes he is the nicest guy (friend), sometimes, I see glimpses of the interactions we used to have (best friends and soul mates) and sometimes he either treats me with indifference (like I don't exist), or as a stranger (just being polite).

What to do?????

One thing I know for sure - I don't see a lot of progress - just more of this back and forth good / bad days in our interactions.

Following DB principles, I should try something diff., but what???

Thanks again for the feedback.

[Queen_of_Swords]

I understand what you're going through. I still struggle with the same things myself.

The few things I've learned:
Make an offer. Give him the opportunity to reject it and choose his own way. Instead of giving him pain meds offer them or let him get his own.

Utter no directives, or decrees. I.E. I do it this way.
Instead you can offer your opinion if it's asked of you. Or you can ask, "Would you like my perspective on that?"

Don't take over, let him figure it out. If he asks for advice then you may give it as YOUR opinion only and say it might be a good idea to seek out another's opinion as well.

Being a doormat = if YOUR behavior in someway makes you feel diminished then you're a doormat. I.E. Doing something you dislike because of someone else's expectations - going along to get along with you in the end feeling badly or used.

For now ditch the comments about you caring about him, he can't care back right now ( and he probably feels badly about that, but not badly enough to change things)

I respectfully suggest a look around to see the difference between caregiving and caretaking behaviors. You may also want to take a look at what co-dependant behavior looks like for a clearer understanding of the dynamic. Both can be found by using a search engine.

As for the opinions others everyone has a couple of opinions and they're like armpits, sometimes they stink

The people that care for and support you will back you no matter what. They may question you on occasion but they will be behind you.

[keep_going]

Q of S -

Thanks again for the feedback. You make very good points. I will be looking into co-dependency - it's something I need more clarity on.

I think I was unclear about my approach with H regarding taking care of him. I always just offer him things - would he like some dinner, pain meds, etc. Even when he called me saying he was in the hospital, I thought very carefully of my approach.
a) Why was he calling ME and telling me about being in the hospital?
b) how should I react

I determined it was a call for attention (he does this often) and since a complaint of his is how I neglected him, I offered to come over and keep him company, if he was bored. So I made sure he made the determination and asked me for it. He said "that would be nice." This is our usual dynamic - I offer and if he accepts I do it. If he doesn't, I don't pressure or plead. I just drop it. Unfortunately, I attend to his needs, and later he will treat me badly or rudely (at least in my mind, because he never feels he treats me rudely), and therefore, I end up getting mad at myself for putting myself in that position.

Ex: I invited him to come to the park and dinner with us yesterday. He said "that would be nice." Yet, while at the park, he started texting with OW. I have asked him in the past to please not do it - it hurts my feelings and I find it disrespectful. He doesn't agree and so he does it. (BTW, he also did it at the hospital) And it triggers me. Some times I can ignore this behavior (like in the hospital) and sometimes I cannot - like in the park where I acted distant for the rest of the evening. And so I missed an opportunity to really have fun and connect with him and show him that we can improve our R.

For me the challenge is that no matter how much I prepare mentally for such triggers, IT JUST HURTS SO MUCH - plain and simple. DBing is great in theory, but soooo hard in real life. How do you act as if, when he is tearing your heart all the time and is completely unaware of it?

I am also upset about enabling him - for example - nobody at his office even knows we are separated and it's been almost NINE months! (he says his boss will use it against him and accuse him of being "distracted" - H is having a lot of problems at work). So I have to smile when co-workers make comments about us during softball games. Ex - when he got hurt the other night, a co-worker was telling me that I would need to really get him an ice treatment and pain meds when get got home...)

Even with my MIL - whom I love dearly it's complicated. She also doesn't know anything about OW, yet H has asked her to babysit for him when it's his turn to watch the kids next weekend, so he can go up north to see OW for her birthday. I have no idea what excuse he gave her, but MIL thinks I leave her poor son alone with the 3 kids so I can go have fun (never mind this is the ONLY time I have for myself all week...) I have not said anything to her or anyone in his family - so I am enabling him to continue lying to them while he makes me look like a bad wife. He is slowly changing the story... and I will end up looking like the bad guy
I am totally of the idea of not calling him out, but how did I end up actually helping cover up for him??? I have somehow become part of the lie and that kills me! I feel like if I expose his lies, I will set myself free (but also absolutely kill any change to save my M). OTOH, I just don't see any hope at this point...
Any opinions on this? I don't want his family (specially MIL) to think I am the bad guy here...

It's not my place to bring it all out in the open. And unfortunately, H is not really hanging out with anyone who would be able to try to give him a different POV. H doesn't want anyone to tell him he may be acting wrong, so he has really pulled away from anyone and everyone that used to be part of our lives and only hangs out with his "new friends", those who "really know who he is now."

I am starting to think maybe he is going thru a midlife crisis, but what good does it do me?

I don't know that I can continue with this, and acting AS IF. I love this man (or the one that I used to know) and seeing him act like an Xss and hurting me and our children is unbearable most of the time...

I feel like anger is coming back to me - I had found forgiveness and peace before I found out about OW... and now anger is coming back BIG TIME.

I wish I could take some time off - maybe not see him for a few days, but that is impossible with our kids. I need some distance and detachment - I cannot seem to get there on my own yet...

I continue to GAL - continue exercising (will participate in a 10k next week and a sprint triathlon in 2 weeks).
Had dinner with friend tonight.
Spent time with parents yesterday.
Taking kids to swim lessons twice a week and spending time with them in the afternoons.

one day at a time...

[adinva]

Hi - I just read all of your story and wow. You have been very strong through an incredibly tough time. It is inspiring to me. I have a couple of comments I hope might be helpful...

while at the park, he started texting with OW. I have asked him in the past to please not do it - it hurts my feelings and I find it disrespectful. He doesn't agree and so he does it. (BTW, he also did it at the hospital) And it triggers me. Some times I can ignore this behavior (like in the hospital) and sometimes I cannot - like in the park where I acted distant for the rest of the evening. And so I missed an opportunity to really have fun and connect with him and show him that we can improve our R.

I've learned a lot in the past few months about what went wrong in my M, and setting boundaries and respecting them was part of our problem. Shortcut to the technique I was taught... ask for an agreement (will you not text when you're with me), get his answer (no - and he has a right to say no), and decide what your action will be then (I have a hard time being with you when I notice that you're texting a lot, so when I notice it I will leave). Then, you don't get mad with him in the situation, you just recognize the emotion you're feeling and implement the solution you decided on. It's no longer passive aggressive because you've discussed that you're going to leave. Passive aggressive is if you just leave and expect him to mind-read that it's about the texting. I wonder if others can give feedback on this. It has been helpful framework for me.

MIL thinks I leave her poor son alone with the 3 kids so I can go have fun

I spent a lot of time feeling outraged in my sitch, and you have even more right than me to. But bottom line is you can't control others' opinions. Your MIL may come to know the extent of what he's done and still not side with you. People may think you drove him away, or whatever. No one can get inside your marriage and know what really happened and who's at fault. It stinks, but IMO you need to let go of worrying about what others think. I don't think you're responsible for helping him maintain his cover, and definitely not responsible for bringing him out into the open. If the falseness of cheering him on at his games bothers you, tell him that and stop going. Just my 2 cents, but it's been a struggle for me to let go of what the neighbors will think, and I'm not completely there yet. I just think I'm kidding myself if I think the world's opinion is going to bring him back to me. It's got to happen inside his own head.

Also, can you afford a babysitter or a mom's morning out kind of thing? You need to get some relief so you're not dependent on him for your only breaks.

Stay strong - you have made so much progress on yourself!

[Queen_of_Swords]

Dear keep_going,

I think I was unclear about my approach with H regarding taking care of him. I always just offer him things - would he like some dinner, pain meds, etc. Even when he called me saying he was in the hospital, I thought very carefully of my approach.
a) Why was he calling ME and telling me about being in the hospital?
b) how should I react

It's so great you're not just reacting but actually thinking about how YOU want to respond to be authentic to yourself. Kudos.

Unfortunately, I attend to his needs, and later he will treat me badly or rudely (at least in my mind, because he never feels he treats me rudely), and therefore, I end up getting mad at myself for putting myself in that position.

Ok, as I see it and in your example that you posted. You have requested pleasantly that your H NOT text OW while he's with you. Great.
Problem is there is no action that you take if he DOES.
You've set a boundary without a consequence.

As another poster mentioned, state your boundary AND what your action will be if he crosses it. Then DO it. Follow through.

"H, I feel diminished, dismissed and disrespected when you text OW when I'm with you. If you do it again I will simply get up, say goodbye and leave."

DBing is great in theory, but soooo hard in real life. How do you act as if, when he is tearing your heart all the time and is completely unaware of it?

Yep it is hard. Something that makes it a little easier is to see your H's behavior as childish behavior. If you can reframe it and see a two or three year old doing the same thing that gives you an edge in how to deal with it. You sure wouldn't let a kid get away with some of the garbage he's pulled now would you?

I am also upset about enabling him - for example - nobody at his office even knows we are separated and it's been almost NINE months! (he says his boss will use it against him and accuse him of being "distracted" - H is having a lot of problems at work).

Forgive me if this comes off a little strong, but this isn't YOUR problem, it's HIS.
IMO, you've taken on a burden that is not yours to carry.

He created the situation as it now stands. He's sleeping with an OW.
Let him handle it. You have nothing to hide or be ashamed of, he does and you don't need to protect him. He's not a child but a grown man.

Even with my MIL - whom I love dearly it's complicated. She also doesn't know anything about OW, yet H has asked her to babysit for him when it's his turn to watch the kids next weekend, so he can go up north to see OW for her birthday. I have no idea what excuse he gave her, but MIL thinks I leave her poor son alone with the 3 kids so I can go have fun (never mind this is the ONLY time I have for myself all week...) I have not said anything to her or anyone in his family - so I am enabling him to continue lying to them while he makes me look like a bad wife. He is slowly changing the story... and I will end up looking like the bad guy

Yeah my MIL doesn't know the score either, and I've not had any contact with her in over two years. I haven't an earthly what STBX has said to her, but I did see an email title that said "Wife left you" from MIL.

In fact I'm sure his entire side of the family believes that in this drama I wear a black hat and have a black heart to go with it.

Do I give a rip what she (or they) thinks? Not really. Why?
If she really gave a damn she'd have phoned and found out both sides of the story.
The likelihood is she's not interested in finding out my side as it would be painful to her to recognize that her son left his wife just as she was left by her son's biological Dad.

(Yes, STBX's father ran away from home when my STBX was around the age of my youngest child. History repeats itself and we revisit the pain we experienced as children on our own far too often)

Fact is STBX is her son and she as his mother will take his side right, or wrong.
Oh well. Not my issue. Yeah it hurts to know that after 26 years she can't be bothered to drop a dime, but it's her loss in more ways than she can possibly imagine.

I wish I could take some time off - maybe not see him for a few days, but that is impossible with our kids. I need some distance and detachment - I cannot seem to get there on my own yet

You can arrange not to see him if you so wish it might take some effort and thinking out of the box.

The question then becomes how badly do you want it?

Can you drop the kids off somewhere neutral where he can then pick them up, while you watch from a safe distance?
Can you arrange a proxy to do that for you? A friend, a sister a brother to stand in your place while the swap is made?
Perhaps use MIL's house as the neutral ground for the swap? (semi evil grin here)

My heart hurts for you. I know how hard this is. Just suggestions for you to ponder, you'll find your way.

[keep_going]

Q of S - Thanks again for all the feedback. I I completely agree with your assessment - everything you pointed out is true - the lack of consequences when setting boundaries, my trying to protect him and carry his burdens... All came back to bite me big time this past weekend, which turned out to be one of the most painful I have had since this nightmare started 10 months ago...

As I mentioned previously, H was supposed to get the kids on Friday night and Saturday. We DO NOT have a set visitation schedule (my fault) and we just try to work it out each weekend. Or should I say - he tells me what his plans are, and I adapt to them. At first I was ok with it because I have been trying not only to show goodwill and be flexible, but also try to get H to spend as much time with us as possible. He has really not made a concerted effort to plan things to do with the kids on the weekends and he usually prefers to either watch them at my place (our house) or agrees to do things together as a family so that he doesn't have to take care of the kids on his own.

After our original agreement for this weekend, H then decided to go see OW (it turns out it is her birthday today, so he became really keen and set about going up there no matter what). So he told me (didn't ask me), that his mom would watch the kids on Saturday morning, while I ran my 10k race and that I would then need to take over after the race.

I told him that was not ok - Saturday was my day off and that means all day, not just a couple of hrs. in the morning.
He insisted, saying that taking care of three kids under the age of 4 is too much for his mom and that I needed to do it - he was already doing me a favor by asking her. He also said she would need to watch them in my house, because his place needs to be ready to show to prospective buyers.

I told him he could not just offer my house up like that without my approval and that ultimately it was his responsibility to find care for the kids on Sat. since he was the one who was going out of town during his turn to be with them. Not my problem.

He got really mad - he said I was being inflexible due to my jealousy of OW and that I would need to deal with the kids this weekend - period.

He was counting on the fact that I love his mom and would never put his mom in the middle of our problems and that out of respect for her, I would let her come over to my place and would take over watching them after the race.
But I held my ground. I told him he was not going to bully his way out of his responsibilities and put them on me. I told him that I was tired of not having a set visitation schedule (When we have had scheduling problems in the past due to his trips or OW visits, I have tried to get him to agree on a set schedule, but it's obviously not in his best interest to do one, since he would not be able to come and go as he pleases as I have been letting him do so far).

He sent me some really angry text messages saying I had been the bully all week and a lot of other very hurtful things.

Friday evening when he came over to pick up the kids, I once again asked what he had arranged for Saturday and he said the plans had not changed. We had a HUGE fight - we both brought up all the hurt and anger we have accumulated. He said I had it easy - living in the house with the kids, with a nanny, while he was miserable, alone, living in a crappy place. (Never mind that the "crappy place" is a completely remodeled town home that he has decorated as the ultimate bachelor pad, just 4 blocks from the beach...). I told him he chose to live there and that he ultimately chose the life he has now, when he left us.

I told him that if he wanted to bully his way to get me to do what he wanted, I would have a conversation with his mom and tell her exactly why he HAD to go up north this weekend. (in other words, I threatened him to expose him with his mom). He started playing victim and then somehow he brought up how he had been thinking about coming back a lot lately, but that arguments like this one made him change his mind (!!!!). My head was spinning...

Here is why:

A couple of weeks before my S was born, he said the same thing to me after an argument - that he had been thinking about coming back. At the time, I responded calmly that he didn't have to make any hurried decisions, not to feel pressured, and we should just let things run their course, blah, blah, blah. I got really hopeful, specially thinking that our S birth, might tip the balance even further and make him decide to come back. Then 4 days after our S was born, he went to Vegas with OW and when he got back is when he told me he was in love with her and that they would pursue their R openly. At that time, I brought up the convo of him having doubts, and he said he never had given me any indication that he wanted anything with me and that he had never done anything to get my hopes up. I actually believed him and even though I ran it in my head many times, I ended up telling myself that I actually just imagined that conversation!!! That I have been under so much stress and pain that I was actually starting to make things up in my mind and that I was probably just started to lose it!!!

So here he is, just this Friday, telling me the same thing. I made sure he repeated it, so that I could understand clearly and not imagine anything. He cried, he told me he missed our friendship, etc., but that he said he was just still concerned about my anger. I cried as well. I told him that the last time he said that, I got my hopes up. I told him what I had been doing to work on my anger. I told him I felt I had made a lot of progress, but that if he is still concerned, then obviously I have a lot of work to do. He said he had noticed my progress... I did point out to him that the only thing we have been arguing about since he left, was related to OW - schedule, triggers, texting, etc. I told him that anyone in my place would probably feel angry about that, (he agreed).

And then I actually said that I would keep trying to work on it. Yes...I cannot believe I actually told him, but I did - I said I would try not to get angry about him having another W... The more I think about it, the more disgusted I feel with myself. What have I become???? I used to be a very strong, self-confident woman and I have let myself become this spineless person.

He said I needed to see a psychiatrist for my anger. I told him if that is what he needed me to do, I would do it. For the first time since he asked for the D back on Jan. 31st, I flat out asked him to give our R a chance, to work on our marriage, to come back. I cried and asked him if he would be willing to go to counseling with me - regardless of whatever happened with us, we'd want to have good communication to be good co-parents.

He finally said "can I think about it?" We hugged and he thanked me for such a great conversation. Needless to say, I went to bed feeling happy. I finally felt like there was hope! I rationalized the whole exchange as if H had actually opened the door and promised something...

Next morning, I came back from my race and H dropped off MIL and kids. (I had offered to pick them up after race, but he insisted). He was very eager to get going... I helped get car seats out of his truck. There, in plain view was the printout confirmation for his hotel in Marin county for the weekend - a beautiful, romantic place...

And just 5 minutes after he left, MIL asks me if H showed me the beautiful wood sign he had been working on for the last few weeks. That his cousin had even done some metal work for it. H had told me his cousin was doing a sign for work. But MIL told me how proud H was of his work, and that it was for a photographer friend and that he would get paid for it. I immediately knew that it was a birthday present for OW. My heart sank and she clearly saw the disappointment in my face. She said she was sorry for mentioning it and that she didn't understand why H would not show it to me - it was so beautiful.

Then it all clicked... A few days earlier he had come pick up some tools from the house that he needed "for work", he didn't want me to pick the kids up at his place that morning, etc, etc.

I then realized how he had just given me lip service the night before and used me just to get me to watch the kids this weekend and so that I would not expose his affair to his mom.

It took everything I had in me to not break down in front of MIL and tell her how this present was not just for a Friend...
But I kept my composure. I cried all weekend just thinking how used I felt and imagining their romantic weekend. Also thinking of all the time and effort he had spent on her present (he never did anything like that for me). How he had demanded that I see a Psychiatrist, yet he was not really offering to do anything to work on our R.

His actions this weekend have showed me what he really wants and the reality is that in the last 10 months, he has done nothing to indicate any interest in either coming back or working on our R.

And last night was the final nail in the coffin... He had said he was driving back on Monday AM, so when girls asked all weekend when daddy would come, I told them Monday night. He then texted me at 7:30pm last night - saying that he had started driving, but was so tired that had to pull to side of the road to take a nap (shows how much he slept all weekend). He left the lights on and battery was dead. Said his day didn't go well and that he would not make it to see kids.

I replied saying that he had told me he was leaving in the AM (pointing out to his lying) and that I had told girls he would see them tonight and how disappointed and hurt they would be. IHe responded I was right, and he was sorry. He felt terrible. I texted back "You should feel terrible. I hope it was worth it." He apologized again and said it was not worth it. I turned off my phone.

I cried all night. I think I am at the end of this road. I cannot take any more hurt and I am not strong enough to keep doing this. I need to get away from this man who has clearly shown what he now wants in his life - and that does NOT include me, and includes my children in a second priority level.

I have to protect my kids. I need to stop hurting like this so I can continue my recovery from anger and personal growth. And I cannot make any progess as long as I stay in this rollercoaster.

He has told everyone, including his mother that he is still concerned about my anger, making that the reason (or excuse) why we are not together, while he is the one causing my anger by cheating on me and being a selfish XXX. I think I am getting ready to file for D myself.

I called my church yesterday. I want to talk to a priest today. I just want to get it all off my chest and maybe get and some kind of moral affirmation? that after trying for 10 months, it is now ok to stop this hurt and move on. I know the church doesn't approve of divorce, but I just cannot keep going on like this...I HAVE NO STRENGTH LEFT and I cannot keep going on like this and be there for my kids. What kind of example and message would I be giving them? That it's ok to let a man use you and walk all over you?

One of the postings said that if my behavior makes me feel diminished, then I am a doormat. Well, I AM OFFICIALLY A DOORMAT NOW and I know I have been used. I need to change gears and act with dignity and have some self-respect now. I deserve that and my kids deserve that.

I am at peace. I have tried so hard to be a loving wife, one that a my H would be a fool to let go... Yes I have had setbacks and many arguments with H filled with hurt and anger... but it's now hurt and anger caused by HIM.

The bottom line for me now is that H has shown with his actions that he is not willing to change, work on our R or stop hurting me or our kids, so now I have to stop it. I know that only by filing for D I will get him to respect me and the kids and not take us for granted and give us his crumbs when it suits his life. It's so sad that it had to end like this. And the worst is that H truly believes he has done nothing wrong and he is just the victim of an angry wife that abused him for 13 years...

[keep_going]

OK... Trying to get off my soap box and be more objective with both my Hs and my actions since we separated.

What have Hs actions been in the last 10 months?
- told me he wasn't in love with me and left after an argument
- has told everyone I kicked him out of the house and that he is done being in an abusive relationshp with an angry wife for 13 years
- started an EA with OW 2 almost 2 months before he left
- started dating (as far as I can tell) less than a month after he left
- comes and goes to our house and visiting kids as his schedule and needs permit (work, friends, dates, OW, softball, etc.)
- claims to be miserable, living alone, missing kids and family terribly, just working non-stop in trying to stop our finacial mess
- spends money on furnishing and decorating our previous home to make it a bachelor pad where he brings OW...
- has taken out 2 credit cards behind my back - finally admitted he doesn't want me to see how he spends HIS money
- admitted being in love with OW just 5 days after our son was born
- refuses to set a clear visitation schedule with me
- refuses to work on a budget with me (previous home is going to short-sale or foreclosure and if we continue this spending trend, we'll lose our house, where I live with kids)
- claims I don't want to go back to work now to have a good life (our Ds are really struggling and S is still not sleeping thru the night...)
- Has admitted he is just waiting for me to get back to work and short sale previous home to file for D
- admits noticing changes in me, but still concerned about my anger
- asked that I see a psychiatrist, but offered no change or course of action for him to work on our R
- sees nothing wrong in dating - we are separated, not married anymore
- has said he has thought a lot about coming back. Then retracts and says he has never done anything to get my hopes up or to indicate that he wants anything to do with me


What have MY actions been in last 10 months?
- When H told me NILWY, I said during argument "if you don't love me, why don't you move out?" (H says I kicked him out of the house)
- I was angry, hurtful and vindictive the first month he had left
- Hit rock bottom and started dealing with my anger
- apologized to H, asked him for a chance, to move back - he denied
- Started marriage counseling
- Started doing 180s in our R
- Immediately stopped working 12-14 hrs /day to be home by 6:30. Have not been late 1 day since December
- Did not pressure H or guilt him because I was pregnant
- Kept an open door policy to make him see what our new family life would be and hope he would miss our home
- given him open door access to our home and kids visitation
- have been a friend for him when sick, depressed, happy, etc.
- Had made progress in our R and interactions until his R with OW intensified three months ago.
- Huge backsliding since then - more frequent arguing and letting anything related to OW trigger me
- I have worked on GAL - exercising, seeing friends, focusing on kids, working on my anger, etc.
- Made a budget for me and kids - tried to save money and reduce expenses wherever I can (currently my only personal expense outside of essentials is my DB coach)
- Not pressured H re. finances - even at the conscious risk of losing everything and ending bankrupt
- Not asking him to come back, until this past weekend
- Have not exposed his affair evne though he has been telling diff. stories to everyone - work, family, friends, etc.
- saw lawyer last week to understand what I would the finacial settlement may look like if H files for D
- I now want to set some clear boundaries with H - set visitation schedule and financial responsibilities. Since I have not been able to convince him to work with me on that, I might need to file for legal Separation to enforce these two...
- I have no money to pay for Ls retainer, unless I take it from our joint checking account - we'll miss mortgage payments and not have enough to cover essential expenses if I do so.
- Will talk to sister to see if I can borrow $ from her until I get back to work
- I am also considering the two options - 1) firing nanny and staying at home with kids until they are more emotionally stable (H has been VERY clear he wants me back working asap) 2) getting back to work and using my paychecks to pay for lawyer...but what about my kids
- i am losing all my strength and will-power, getting more and more angry at my sitch - i am now also backsliding in MY OWN PROGRESS re. my anger.
- I am researching a psychologist (NOT a psychiatrist) that specializes in anger management... I would probably have to give up my DB coach - cannot afford both, actually probably cannot afford either, but I cannot afford not to take care of myself!

what next?
- my db coach suggested on Thursday to go as dark as I can (given the fact that we have 3 kids under the age of 4...)
- i am considering filing myself, i realize i am not making any progress with H and this roller coaster hinders my personal growth

???

[25yearsmlc]

be careful about the going back to work issue bc he wants that of you so he will pay less and he'll imagine you earn more than you will...

So you go to work, and then your kids will see both of you less...

(But yes, someday--post settlement-- YOU do have to be able to support yourself, as do most women, even if we are married...these days it's tough to depend on one income only)

as for the Rest of this stuff...

The way you listed the m history, seems a lot like score keeping to me and that's not going to help you with the anger.

It's going to keep you mired in it. So lose the scorecards...

Don't measure or time the "sins" and wrongs...or even keep track of them...

what matters is going from this day forward, (not looking backwards so much)

* he seems to want out AND

*you are in financial straits. So that means you have to care about money matters with his new secret credit cards... and that means you have to protect yourself.

your h feels fine about your going going back to work b/c in his fantasy, he'll send you a check, see the kids at his leisure, and he and OW will have a happy blended family sometimes...and private couple time sometimes...

Do I think he's going to have problems with her later? Sure...he wasn't flawless and he's done no personal work on himself so those problems will resurface even if in a slightly different form...

but it will take awhile before the problems manifest b/c for now all their problems can be blamed on the logistical obstacles they have just being together.

Protect yourself, back off and be as pleasant but strong as you can be.

Contrast the negative images/justifications he used to leave you, with the new positive images of you.

Lose the anger in front of him, please. It only validates his reasons for leaving you. Do you get that? It is key. IF you must convey something negative to him say it in the world's calmest voice.

In his mind it's easier to simply start over with OW than to fix things with you two and besides, he fears if he reconciles you are either still angry at him "like always" and or

that he'll lose the "fun magic" he feels with her and

you will revert back to your angry ways, which he also knows, he partly deserves...

so he's between a rock and a hard place in some ways. As are you...

I understand your need for movement of some kind. But the anger is consuming you and I've been there.

When you let go of that anger, you free YOURSELF...you become happier.
one thing at a time.

BTW, what kind of father was he before OW? I know you had problems with anger.

But What were they mostly centered around?

Were you negatively programmed and cranky or did he deliberately do things that bothered you?

Either way, the anger is not helping you. And i think his claims that he "was going" to come back ring hollow to me. Why'd he keep them secret til after the fact?

It's a way to punish you with falsehoods and the only leverage he has, which is dangling a carrot in front of you only to say you don't get to have it.

I'd say ignore that. IF he wants to come home, he can tell you.

I'm torn about the in laws not knowing anything...I never advise exposing Affairs b/c it nearly always backfires and makes you look manipulative and punitive (and it usually IS punitive and manipulative)...

but in this case you are covering for him...and he's lying...Not cool.

Ask the DB coach about that piece of this. AND

hang in there...


((( )))