MTS, I think messaging her on her birthday conflicts with everything you're doing right now. You're backing off and giving her space. I don't think you are in a place in your relationship where it's going to mean anything to her, and could have a negative affect.
You know I already think the letter is over kill. Like all your other texts and messages, it's to get a reaction from her of some sort or to influence results...even as you pretend the opposite.
It's also not even written by you, so it sounded canned. It is absolutely pursuit, sent under a thin veneer of noble sounding rhetoric.
When you tell someone who has already left you that are "releasing" them, it sounds as if You are "giving" her something you don't have to give; ie, permission to leave you. Sorry MTS, I guess I just don't get it.
Does your db coach know of all the prior contacts/pursuits of yours and the end results?
But anyhow, If YOU NEED to send it, so be it. Just Be honest about your goal/hopes for it.
As for but sending her a birthday wish/text/note, wow, that is just more of the same from you.
DB 101 do something new. (6 weeks without contact is nothing to them.)
She is too busy exploring her new found freedom and meeting OMs to worry about you, partly
b/c she knows you are still waiting for her, your "One and only" love -- which is still the same old MTS...
Why would she hurry back to you, when she risks nothing by still exploring OMs?
but if you send her nothing, when you have such "a good excuse for contact",
THEN
you will show her a CHANGE in you, and a quiet disciplined strength she has yet to see from you in this whole ordeal. This is an opportunity to show her you are NOT doing the exact same stuff over and over...
Let her go on her "mission" of greener grass seeking...but please do not send her a birthday wish of any sort.
YOU need to be so GAL and moving on that it simply didn't occur to you, or seem appropriate....
b/c you are not her friend. You are her soon to be ex h. She's divorcing you.
Those are tough facts to face but they are facts, not hopes or fears or gray areas.
Send nothing to her.
For now, the more you pursue (and of course its pursuit, ) the more you push her away.
I'd think this would be clear to you by now. NO offense meant MTS, b/c I'll stand by you no matter what you choose.
But to ME, this is a no brainer.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I just finished my call with my DB coach (Lenni). Hopefully I can clear some things up here.
I KNOW that letter was overkill. I just couldn’t remember what Lenni had told me about the letter that Michelle recommends so I used a letter I found elsewhere. She cleared it all up for me and we had a good talk.
Lenni is and has been very aware of my prior contacts/pursuits of mine and the end results. That’s why this is a Last Resort letter and in many ways, I believe I’m there. I read the other letter to her and I shared with her the parts I had problems with. I honestly didn’t like the “one and only” part either when I read it…I was just looking for feedback.
My goal/hope for the letter is obvious. I’d hope that it stirs something in her at some point so that she maybe realizes I truly am NOT the same person. That I understand where I made mistakes but that I also will respect her decision to move on. Maybe that realization comes three weeks from now. Maybe that realization comes a year or three years from now and I never even know she came to that realization. I understand it doesn’t necessarily lead to R. But at least I can say I left no stone unturned.
Lenni says the letter is all about timing so I’m going to be prayerful as to when I should send it. The goal is to be concise. For me to take ownership of things I know that have been hurtful. To convey that I “get it” with respect to my W’s wishes. The letter is a work in progress…the main part I want to take into account is my acknowledgement of the things I know that have hurt her as well as the thing I perceive that may have hurt her. Lenni/Michelle suggests these come in list form and are what she be the “longest” of a letter that should be no more than one page. I’m going to save it…sleep on it…read it at different times…pray on it…and when I feel it is right, I’ll send it. I welcome any and all thoughts on it. Here is the letter we formulated together:
W,
I understand you are finished with our marriage and that you've been very unhappy and will be moving on.
I want to acknowledge and take responsibility for mistakes I made that were hurtful to you.
For having too many inappropriate female interactions that made you uncomfortable and broke your trust.
For not being the spiritual head of our household and not pursuing a stronger relationship with Christ.
For cheating on you in 2006.
For trying to be someone I'm not by looking for approval of others.
For having shared personal things with others when this first began in April.
For taking you for granted.
For not taking care of your emotional needs and still expecting you to want to have sex with me.
For not making enough time for us and letting football (real life, fantasy football and/or video games) have too big of a place in our relationship.
For all of the above, I ask for your forgiveness.
You might suspect this is manipulative on my part. This is not the case. It is simply to let you know I get it. (This is an optional fragment Lenni said does or does not have to be included.)
Despite all you've endured I appreciate your commitment to our relationship over the last 7 years. Although I do not agree that divorce is the best solution I love you and respect you enough to let you go since that's what you've chosen.
As painful as this situation is it has been a blessing in the sense that it has led me to who I want to be, either alone or in a future relationship.
Please do not respond to this letter.
H
I'm not sure how I feel about ending it with "please do not respond to this letter. Also I'm going to re-read my threads, particularly where I became more candid about my past faults (and where I was bludgeoned by 25's 2x4s )...those I realized and those I tried to make excuses for and make sure that they are included in my list. I know I've left some things out I want to address. I want it to be perfectly clear that I am owning those things and that I was wrong for them and that in no way am I making excuses for them. That is the goal of the list portion. I also intend to try to go back and take out extra words...when I can say something in one sentence I'll try to do so rather than stretching it out to two. I think the more concise I make it, the better chance I have of her reading it. When I get to wordy, I know she tunes out/ignores. Even if she does initially do just that, I think she may one day at least consider going back to read it even if that is years down the road. The more concise I am, the better chance I have of holding her attention long enough to read it.
As for her birthday…Lenni said to me she sees no harm in it either way. She mentioned people do like to be remembered on their birthdays and were I to send her anything just make it short. Either an e-card or a very simple text message that says nothing more than Happy Birthday. The flip side of this was she said I could obviously not say anything. I told her part of me wants to just say Happy Birthday. Another part of me wants to not say anything because she’s chosen what she wants right now and by me not contacting her these past 5 weeks, I believe I’ve honored that. Similarly, I told Lenni that I’m sure others will wish my W happy birthday and that her actions and her pursuit of D indicates that she doesn’t want to hear from me on matters unrelated to D. I’m going to pray on it more but I do see what you and jb mean.
mid 20s Tgther 7 yrs W EA 04/12/11 PA 04/23/11 W filed 05/11/11 I moved out 08/05/11 Mediation mid Oct 11 D final Dec 11 Now what? ...2012
I also spoke with Lenni and am familiar with the letter. Like she said, if you do chose to send it, timing is everything. So think about it. For me, I never felt that I had the right opportunity to send it.
The other very important part of this letter is acknowledging your part in the breakdown of your M. Spend time on this part and make sure it is genuine and from the heart.
Quote:
You might suspect this is manipulative on my part. This is not the case. It is simply to let you know I get it. (This is an optional fragment Lenni said does or does not have to be included.)
I would personally not include this.
Also, like she said, for her birthday, IF you chose to do something, the simple two word text "Happy Birthday" is more than enough IMO.
And I understand that of course you hope that this letter sparks something in her. But keep expectations low. Remember, this is as much for you as it is for her. Release yourself from the mistakes you made, forgive yourself and be prepared to move forward.
Peace.
BITS
Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.
MTS, I am thinking the letter will say what you want to say down to the part of "For all of the above, I ask for your forgiveness." I think she knows everything after that and/or it doesn't need to be said. I think those things are just putting it back in her face, so to speak, and will likely backfire.
Just MVHO.
You may want to go over your bullet list, too, and re-order it terms of what is a priority for her. If there's some things on there that are low priority, get rid of them.
Keep your expectations in check. If you don't think it's going to say anything you need to say, don't send the letter. Again, JMVHO.
sending the letter before the div makes it seem more manipulative b/c IF it's really just about you "owning" things, and seeking her forgiveness,
send it afterwards, so there's no "gain" to be had like you thinking she'll change her mind before the divorce.
(MTS, I don't discount the idea of her having 2nd thoughts about you later- but those 2nd thoughs are not coming anytime soon.
She has at least 2 OMs in mind now, and a lot of other dating/ exploring to do as you were the main guy she know through college. She feels she didn't know enough men and that she used her best years with you, which to her at present, feels mostly bad.
Her main regrets now, (which will change we hope) are time wasted on just you. So let her go like you say you are....You admit expectations/hopes for the letter but you will be stringing yourself along as you "wait" for an answer you'll never get...sure, she might say "thanks" and she might not say anything at all ever. And that will delay your detachment again...
Whatever value the letter might have, would be increased by sending it after the divorce. Kind of like apology letters from defendants sent after their trials, so there isn't a way to view it as them manipulating the system to gain clemency.
I don't see what you have to lose by waiting to send the letter, til LATER.
As for the letters' wording and contents, I'll have to ponder that some more, so I know I've done justice to your concerns.
The B-day thing...OMG I don't get you at all on this...
Sending her anything on her birthday is SO LIKE WHAT you have been doing all along, I see no upside at all.
Just looks weak & like more inconsistency on your end --as in NO CHANGE.
Can't you show some discipline and CHANGE this ONE time -when it counts?
Geez, this is the one thing you can do BEFORE the divorce that demonstrates change....
You can always make up for birthdays later if you reconcile.
By NOT sending her the b-day wish, you send another message; a strong one.
It shows you are moving on. MTS, that's a good thing!
I cannot for the life of me understand why you'd blow this perfectly timed opportunity to show change.
The woman is divorcing you and according to you, she's also bad mouthed you. I cannot grasp how this would make you look like a new confident man who brings a lot to the table...
She'll know you didn't "forget" her birthday.
By not pursuing her to show her how nice and loyal you will always be even days before she finalizes a divorce you don't want, or has another A and or refuses counselling and or, bad mouths you to others...
instead, you show a quiet restraint (no wordy "releases" of her)
and YOU GAL That day especially...
who knows? Maybe she will think "wow, he IS giving me space...and or "Wow, he IS GAL"...
In sum, IMO There's NO upside to sending her a message and no downside to Not sending it.
There is even a potential UPSIDE to staying silent that day....
So- maybe you don't agree and that's cool. But just so I know,
can you at least see what I'm saying here? Do you really get what JB & I mean?
And here's a phrase I read& wanted to pass on to you... "Mistakes are not tragedies; but dear God let me learn from them."
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
That's a nice letter. I agree 100% with the comment above to end it at the "For all of the above, I ask for your forgiveness" part.
IMO talking about how you're not trying to manipulate and telling her how (not) to respond, is sort of manipulative, attempting to control how she perceives the letter, which is really up to her. But it's really nice that you're stating mistakes and apologizing. Again IMO, I think you should just apologize instead of asking for her forgiveness. Stick to what you control, which is you. (And btw, I think it goes without saying that you're motivated by a hope that your letter improves her opinion of you. It's pretty low key and focuses on you, and I personally don't see the harm in that. Sending it after the D seems pointless, to me.)
In my situation, I'm the W and my H wants to leave. Since we're in such flux, he did absolutely nothing for my birthday; I don't even think he knew it was my birthday. I didn't expect a party or a big gift because we are basically separated, but my feelings were hurt to be ignored. From where I sit, it would be nice if you would acknowledge her birthday and not totally ignore it. A token gift like a gift certificate would be pretty low key, or a card without a personal note, just a simple Happy Birthday...would seem thoughtful and not pursuing.
Take it as just one opinion. I'm new here and no expert.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
OK I just reread 25's post and have a lot of respect for 25 even though I am new here. I'm sure there's great DB value in ignoring the birthday, given your history. It would likely make a point.
My H thinks we're friends and will be after D, and friends make each other feel cared about on their birthdays.
This stuff is SO confusing.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
But take some time and read his thread. It will take several hours b/c MTS has written so much
but after reading ALL of MTS's threads the whole way through awhile back, (which you may want to do sometime)
I stand by my comments about the birthday and simply don't think your sitch is the same. Before I say more, I'll read all of your threads though.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Nothing will wake ur W up not while there are OM's involved.
The only person that controls that is her. You are on her mind but you are not a priority
I was there, still am, only if I say this or show her that, if I can only get her to understand this
It won't work imo at this stage, it's about her, not about you. Deep down she knows you are the better man, the healthier choice. Life will teach her that eventually.
You can only say so much and you have said it all to her.
All hope is not lost MTS, even after D.
But we don't need our W's and that's the hard part, we may want them, but we don't need them.
When the OM's leave, and they will and the smoke clears, she will look back and realize what was lost.
The sad part, which really I struggle with, there is a very good chance both of us will have moved on.
All that growing while our W's were just spinning..... once they stop. She will see the new you and wonder WTH she was doing.
But there is a good chance you, and I, will have met someone else, someone else who would probably fight just as hard for you as you did for your W.
Try and picture that. What will I do when W or XW eventually reaches out and she will, they all do at some point.
Me:29 WW:26 No kids 2 dogs T: 11 M: 2 D-day 1: 08/2010 D-day 2: 05/2011 1 POSOM Separated: 06/2011 WW ILY commits to M 9/18 Files D 9/19 ILY Still 9/21 WW are fun
)...those I realized and those I tried to make excuses for and make sure that they are included in my list. I know I've left some things out I want to address. I want it to be perfectly clear that I am owning those things and that I was wrong for them and that in no way am I making excuses for them. That is the goal of the list portion. I also intend to try to go back and take out extra words...when I can say something in one sentence I'll try to do so rather than stretching it out to two. I think the more concise I make it, the better chance I have of her reading it. When I get to wordy, I know she tunes out/ignores. Even if she does initially do just that, I think she may one day at least consider going back to read it even if that is years down the road. The more concise I am, the better chance I have of holding her attention long enough to read it.