Saving the M and caring for a baby

[Eryam]

Thanks, 25. Sometimes I feel like I've forgiven him about some things, and then out of nowhere it comes and bites me in the face. I really don't know a whole lot about anger and grieving, so I don't know if that's just part of the process. The thing I do know about is behavior. We measure changes in behavior with 3 things: duration, intensity, and frequency. So, I feel like the grief is decreasing because the frequency at which it is popping up is less and the amount of time it takes me to bounce back is much less. However when it rears it's ugly head, it is just as intense (and, ergo, exhausting when it happens). So from a behavior standpoint, I would count it as a win, but like I said, still exhausting.

And yes, you're right about never seeing the past the same. In undergrad, I had a prof who was actually really into research on eye witness accounts. It's amazing how terrible people are at that sort of thing! I think the key thing for me is not only to remember that his perception/recollection is different than mine, but not to try to defend MY perception/recollection when he attacks.

H has said he wants to do a "from this day forward" type of thing as far as future finances and personal disclosure goes, but it's the letting go that will be hard for both of us on different topics.

And thank you, CS, for your post. I always love to read what you have to say. I don't know how closely you follow my sitch, but I work with VERY handicapped children. Like, our goals in my classroom are to learn their colors and not bite their friends and teachers. Last week I was bit, pinched, scratched and had to run one down from escaping from campus. Every time I think I found all the bruises on my body, I find another one.

But it never pisses me off. They cannot communicate. They do not understand the world around them.

When a behavior modification technique backfires, I don't get mad at them or at myself. I just think, "well, that wasn't the trick" and go back to the drawing board. I don't try to force the ineffective technique.

But you putting it in that perspective really helps me get my head around this crap in a much more manageable way. Thank you.

Clearly the anger is an ineffective technique. Like I said, all it did was piss him off and earn me a migraine.

I did call his this evening to apologize for the way in which I expressed my frustrations. He said that given the circumstances it's completely understandable. I told him I think talks involving tense subjects should be contained to the internet. He agreed. We can talk about our days, our jobs, our D on the phone or in person, but the other sh!t, we just can't handle right now.

I want a win too.

[ESN]

exBF and I do all that "difficult" stuff on email only. We learned the hard way too.

Certainly not late at night!

Sounds like your grieving is pretty close to what the grieving cycle looks like - we cycle through it over and over until we're nearly healed (can take years - and I don't know if we ever really "heal" - it's how much we can put what's left to rest).

But it goes through - deep despair, anger, bargaining, denial - you know ...

And every time it cycles, it's less intense then when the thing that caused our grieving first happened.

So that's progress.

[♪CS♪]

When a behavior modification technique backfires, I don't get mad at them or at myself. I just think, "well, that wasn't the trick" and go back to the drawing board. I don't try to force the ineffective technique.

^^^^ This is golden!

[KenF]

dueinMay

i'm seeing things a bit differently from most here. maybe its the devils advocate in me. everything below this point is my opinion, and is not meant to hurt you, although it may, but to make you think. feel free to ignore it. but i think you're on a dangerous path right now.

i'm glad you saw how your comment of him dying, is the same as his saying he doesnt like your arms. both were said to inflict pain and were said from the place of being hurt. you're no better than he is in this matter. you do have our sympathy because you post here. but to a neutral person, you were much further over the line than he was.

i think you're both the same. you both cant let go. you both are trying to hurt each other. you both are making moves in the right direction, but neither can go the whole distance. you're both still looking for where the other is wrong.

you are both at the point where you want to be right, more than save the M.

of course he sees your pregnancy different. there is no way he could see it the way you do. its impossible even for the best of us, and for you to expect him to understand is wrong. a man cannot begin to understand what it means to grow another life inside of you and what that feels like. its alien to us. so to continue with this, there is no other end result but to guarantee his failure. this is your trump card.

this would be similar to him saying you're wrong because you don't understand the man's perspective of the pressure of being the family breadwinner. because when a family fails financially, its always the man's failure to support his family, and to men this has its pressures and expectations and responsibilities, and i have rarely met a woman who understands this.

you cannot fully understand his perspective. he cannot fully understand yours. its just physically and emotionally impossible, based on anatomy, upbringing, societal teaching, etc.

but to say your perspective is more important than his perspective is where this starts to fall apart. his feelings, regardless of how you choose to view them, are important to him. and your feelings are important to you.

by doing this, you're saying you are more important than he is.

where does this leave you both? trying to one up each other on past wrongs.

and what is this doing for you? causing you to always think about how much he hurt you, searching your history of all his wrongs, keeping inventory. and you him.

and whats the end result? you keep finding more and more reasons to dislike him. your anger increases. and then you divorce.

as long as you continue to find things to blame on him there is no other possible result.


so a new start doesnt mean pretend it never happened. it means you need to find a way to discuss what happened without blame and with less emotion. what happened was a response to something which was a response to something else, and on and on, its the chicken or the egg thing.

[25yearsmlc]

kenf,

You make valid points but imo, carry them too far.

Maybe it's a devil's advocate thing, but where did she say her perspective is more important than his?

And Her comment about his dying wasn't completely evil and random, HE obsesses about his own death and wallows in his depression, ALL in the face of a beautiful new life.

And I don't think she expected him to "understand" her pregnancy-- so much as not emotionally leaving her during it and then literally leaving her...which ruins a whole lot of it.

She admitted she did a "tit for tat" thing and she apologized pretty darn fast.

She has endured a lot

and what you are "equating" in actions, are her REACTIONS to his actions...not the same.

She was not the aggressor originally--she was the aggrieved party.

But, maybe what you are saying is that NOW, some of her behaviors are reversing this?

So that she will no longer be the injured party- but the aggressor b/c she escalated? hmmm

Food for thought.

[Eryam]

I'm glad you brought up the points you did, Ken. And 25, I like your counter arguments. They were very similar to the things I was going to say. I wouldn't change a thing.

And to add to it, yes, I am fearful that I am becoming the aggressor. And so to respond to Ken's post, yes, I think I'm on a dangerous path currently.

I cannot continue to drive 2 hours a day, have a very labor intensive job, be a single parent to a baby, take care of myself AND DB. I can't do it. Something has got to give.

So I crunched the numbers and talked with sister.

I can do an apartment with her. And without a friggin cent of H's money.

Child care, child supplies, my bills, AND rent. Because the place I found is 5 miles from my school.

Much better than my father's 55 miles. Or even my 15 miles from my house.

When I went over the logistics with sister, I realized the things that I was originally calculating into my budget would be split (things that I paid for completely by myself when living with H). Things like groceries, utilities, and the like. And I wouldn't be paying for house maintenance (I really do miss that part of apt life). If I drove absolutely no where else besides school and work, I would fill up my gas tank about every 35 days. I know I'll drive other places, and that's unrealistic, but OMG. I'm currently filling up every 3 days. That's right. 50 bucks, every 3 days.

AND I can still dump a ton into my savings.

I think if there's any way to save my M, I have to get my living situation under control. I'm resentful, exhausted, and it's eating up ALL my time and cash.

Plus, I love my sister dearly. I have missed her so much in the year she's been gone to Germany.

I think I will get a 6 mo lease, pay it all up front with my savings (maybe I'll get an addtl discount, and instead of paying to the apt, pay back my savings), and if H and I reconcile, then awesome, I don't have to pay anything to break my lease, and I'm only out a thousand bucks or so. And I told sister I would pay my half of the utilities or whatever for the remainder of the lease if I were to leave prematurely.

I called H and left him a vm. He texted back saying "what's up"

M: I found an apartment. And I wouldn't need your money.

All he said was: Oh wow.

We'll see what happens next....

[ESN]

Good move, may. Good job!

[KenF]

its all just food for thought. there are those who actually think on the advice and those who only see what supports their view point. i believe the key here is to always be able to think from many perspectives, to always check our own actions, and to question ourselves first even when that hurts the most. those who refuse to see their own mistakes will always fail.

yes, dueinMay is evolving into the WAS. and this is fine, she's been through a lot at a critical time in her life, and carries a lot of anger/disappointment in the man she married. we all have limits, and some things cannot be undone.

in my case, my x surrounded herself only with those who agreed her perspective, never questioned her stories, and who agreed with every example she gave of why i was evil and she was a victim. anyone who disagreed or asked questions, she stopped talking to.

so this is where i'm coming from.

i support dueinMay, i honestly hope everything works out for her. she's the only reason i'm still posting here.

but while i support the person, i think there are areas she also needs to change, or at least question her perspective. i see a shift in her attitude which is heading in a direction that may not help her.

as an example: my d will have an emotional breakdown over one of her toys not working. to her this is like a death in the family. to me its about changing a battery.

but i have to realize that from her perspective this was a life changing problem. and that to her this was as traumatic as any emotional breakdown that i have had.

i have to allow that these are equal - from our own perspectives. else, what i'm implying is that she is less worthy than i am. and this is a form of narcissism.

so what i'm trying to get to here is that dueinMay should be careful not to devalue his right to his feelings, while hold her's too high. both he and she are equally worthy of their feelings, from their own standpoints, regardless of whether you and i and she feels they may be ridiculous.


dueinMay, apologies for talking about you in the 3rd person. it just makes it easier for me.

[ESN]

Ken,

I agree with all that you said, and I think there's a point, too, where one needs to have healthy boundaries.

I'm not sure where Michelle addresses this (starting some audiobooks today) - about boundaries during this time of transition.

Certainly May's H isn't going to get away with saying crap to her forever - and vice versa. Where do you draw the line with that?

[KenF]

everything starts with yourself. and is all about yourself.

trying to control the other, or change the other will only lead to failure of the relationship. blaming the other will only lead to failure of personal growth. cataloging and listing the others faults will only lead to the break down of your willpower to save the relationship.

if dueinMay is going to say things to him, then she has to expect him to say things to her. apologies after the fact, are nice, but do very little to alleviate the damage, they're more for our own guilt.

i am also very slow to apologies. not because i believe i'm right. but because i use the guilt as a reminder of what i did to another person.

i could say hurtful things to another and immediately apologizes and in my mind its all forgiven.

but instead, i choose to view that apology as a cheap way to help only myself. the hurt i caused is not lessened, that can never be undone, it cant be unsaid.

by not apologizing, i must carry the guilt and which reminds me not to do that again. to be more careful next time.

people are too quick to forgive themselves, and too slow to forgive others.

so boundaries must begin with ourselves, you cant set boundaries on another that you cant keep yourself.