I admire your strength. But don't get masochistic here. Be SURE you want the "gory" details before you dig and dig
and have not done much forgiveness work (it's time consuming). I almost wonder if you are sabotaging things by asking for so much detail. You are probably right. H and I did have a chat about this last night, and aeolianchaos did mention the danger of emotional fusion so perhaps it's time for me to stop trying to piece the whole sorted mess together.
Also, re your daughter, sorry but it's NOT UP TO HER if you work on your m.
That's a marital choice, not a child's.
I guess in my attempt to summarize (I tend to be too wordy), I didn't make our conversation clear. I did not ask D for her opinion as to whether H should remain in our home. H wanted me to see if D was ready for him to approach her which is how the conversation came up. (We're giving her more time to process and she's already doing better. She's back in school, and she's not spending all her time in her room). Granted, she's moved to the computer room, but at least now she will come into the kitchen when H is in there BUT she still won't look at him. However, in our opinion, she's needs time and we're giving it to her.
Anyway, let me try explaining this again since I seem to have caused a bit of a misunderstanding - I asked D16 if she was ready to talk to H. She said no -- she's still too angry. I said I understood her feelings because I was still angry too. And that's when she said, "Honestly, mom if it was me, I would not stay married to him". I told her that I didn't think it was wise to make big decisions based on anger. She said she understood but that she didn't know how I could even speak to him because he made her very uncomfortable right now, and that's when she brought up that she would not be upset if he moved out and would in fact, prefer it. Due to the tension.
BUT she did say that she would not want to be the one to make that decision because of her little brother. So I took it as her commiserating or offering her support because she was glad I was the one making the decision and not her, due to the fact that if H left, S7 would be devastated. The girl adores her brother. And I never once got the impression that D was telling me to chose between her and S. She's a very smart, sensitive kid (honor role, Gifted Program) and she isn't ranting or raging when we speak. She's actually very calm so I don't feel I'm overly indulging her anger but I AM letting her feel whatever it is she is feeling right now without judgment. It will be a week tonight since the A bomb, and that's simply not enough time for a 16 year old girl to adjust to having her family torn apart by another woman. I can't even imagine, and I'm living it.
Hopefully, I've explained it slightly better this time around.
You have to give her a reason to hope for better from h and from your m and from you
and to show that regardless of
whether you two stay together down the road,
you can't let some psycho Fatal Attraction nut break your family up now.
Just my .02. I think by giving your d too much power, you also burden her with too much responsibility. H and I talked about it and he said he would be willing to move out if that's what she needed but I said I don't think that's the solution. S will be heart-broken, D will feel guilty (and that would harm her too) and batch!t crazy would be able to gloat that she was able to share her pain.
So no, H is not going anywhere right now and D knows it. And she hasn't expressed any disagreement over this decision.
She's trying to protect you and her by saying goodbye to h. That won't end the pain and it brings up more of it
and from where you are at this moment, kicking him to the curb would lead you to 2nd guess yourself and have tremendous self doubt down the road.
You will always wonder what might have been...if you but forgave...
Plus you have a son too.
All of the above is why I'm not rushing into any decision even though I'm angry, hurt and feeling very betrayed. I have learned something by being on DB. I don't know if I can move past this and stay in the M, but I am going to try.
As for the meds, I'm PRO taking them when the alternative is losing it, or hitting or not being able to sleep or asking for gory details.
Yes, I'm strongly leaning towards AD's, or at least something for my anxiety. I took sleeping pills for the first time in my life the other night and immediately noticed the difference in my PMA the following day.
All that said, the feelings of disgust I am having towards the thought of H touching me are deeply disturbing me though. I assuming they will pass in time...
It will pass in time, I promise, E. It was hard for me at first, too, not to let my mind go to some dark places when my husband and I were being intimate together. As suggested by MWD in her books...when your mind goes there, just imagine a huge red STOP sign. I assure you, this helps.
Hugs to you...you are doing great. Just keep taking things one day at a time.
lc, I'm not even referring to being intimate. I can't even touch him. My hands, feet and lips start to tingle and I get chest pains. My body is having a very obvious psychosomatic reaction to H.
Do you mind if I ask how long it took for you to EVEN be able to hug your H after you found out?
Val, please don't apologize for sharing your story or your opinions with me. I am very open. We are all here to learn, to share and to support. Not everyone does that in the same way. (I often use humour to in difficult situations and not everyone takes that the right way sometimes.) So please don't apologize for taking the time to respond to me in your way. I truly appreciate it.
Also, in no way did I get offended or take anything you said as parenting advice. I was physically and emotionally abused as a child and it took me a long time to forgive my parents. (I actually had to distance myself from them (at the advice of a counselor) for about 3 years in order to heal -- they were very controlling). So I understand that it's a process. BUT I believe it is I process we must all go through when we have been wronged in our childhood. When I finally forgave my parents, it was like having a weight lifted from my heart and soul.
I have a friend who is 40 years old and who is still hanging on to the anger she has towards her mother for the way she was treated as a child. She rarely sees or speaks to her mother but when she does, she takes everything the woman says as a personal attack (even when it's obvious it's not). She has spent 40 long years hanging onto her childhood pain and it's destroying her, not her mother.
You are doing so well in your sitch and I know you will find forgiveness for your father someday in your own time as well. It will happen when you are ready. (I was in my early 30's when I got there.) ((()))
Originally Posted By: Valeska19
How about just allowing her to express ALL of her feelings and validating & Listening? She has a valid point and I could very easily see her getting defensive or maybe even angrier because you are saying something other than what she is feeling.
Treat it like a R in the way that you are not pushing your thoughts on her, No pursuing of D for you or your H. Be there when she needs you but give her space to figure sh!t out in her head.
I do agree with you in that D16 has a right to her feelings. This is happening to her too. Her image of her father has been betrayed in a horrible way and she needs time to grieve. THAT is the point I got from your story, and I agree wholeheartedly. I'm adult and I can perhaps reach a place of forgiveness sooner (I think!) than D16.
AND I can guide her, I can lead by example and I can try to teach her BUT I can't and won't tell her what she can or should feel.
All that said, the feelings of disgust I am having towards the thought of H touching me are deeply disturbing me though. I assuming they will pass in time...
It will pass in time, I promise, E. It was hard for me at first, too, not to let my mind go to some dark places when my husband and I were being intimate together. As suggested by MWD in her books...when your mind goes there, just imagine a huge red STOP sign. I assure you, this helps.
Hugs to you...you are doing great. Just keep taking things one day at a time.
lc, I'm not even referring to being intimate. I can't even touch him. My hands, feet and lips start to tingle and I get chest pains. My body is having a very obvious psychosomatic reaction to H.
Do you mind if I ask how long it took for you to EVEN be able to hug your H after you found out?
Sweet friend, you can always ask me anything! I think everything that you are experiencing is completely normal. I don't remember how long it took for me to touch my H (or allow him to touch me) after I found out about his A (I have purposefully blocked out a lot of memories of that horrible time in my life), but our circumstances were quite different. H and OW were discovered by OW's (now) ex-H, and they were far from ready to give each other up (they were certain they were "in love"). It was off and on for much longer than I care to know about (although I am quite certain she is out of his life for good now). Your H seems to be willing to do whatever it takes to save your marriage, and so I assume he is prepared to be patient with you. Take your time. He knows you are worth the wait.
just wallowing in her rage and encouraging THAT "oh just justifiable anger"---instead of working through it, ----could ruin her R's with every member of her family...
25, I don't really see her as wallowing because it's only been a week. She's a 16 year old kid who was recovering from depression and an eating disorder that occurred in response to her Grandmother's terminal illness, and death. Her Grandmother was quite young and was very involved in our kid's lives and her death was very, very hard on D16. I think the kid deserves a bit of a break after the past two years she's had...and now this.
Anyway, I know D, and there is no way she would ever ruin her R with me or her brother. I hope I didn't paint a horrible picture of the child because this is a kid that we're constantly told is the sweetest, nicest, kindest child by teachers, family, friends, etc. Her Grandfather was just telling H a couple weeks ago that D is the only one of his teenage Grandaughters that will take the time to spend any of her summer with him. She cares about her family. A lot. Actually, I think that is why she is not talking to H. Because he has disrespected me and our family.
His remorse was immediate and he also began contacting a pro m MC before the OW discovery.
Yes, he has shown pretty incredible remorse BUT he did sleep with ow one more time after he contacted that MC so let's not give him the WAS of the year award quite yet.
Realizing our parents are not infallible is a painful step in the process known as "growing up." But it's a step we all have to take.
I agree but could he have done something less drastic first? Got a little drunk and threw up at the family picnic perhaps?...I know, I know, what's done is done but this is a bit more than a step. I feel like we all just threw ourselves off a cliff.
This OW is nuttier than most and that's unfortunate. OTOH he wasn't in love with her
Well, he said he thought he was in love with her for a couple months which is why he bombed me in April but after finding out that I did want the M (he believed I would not), his feeling for ow started to dwindle immediately. So again I will give H credit for being able to pull himself out of the A "fog" pretty quickly.
Is this man to be punished more B/c the kids know?
Well, I don't know if he should be punished more because the kids are involved but it sure does add to my anger. Of all the details, this is the ONE I would give anything to change.
Then again, if ow's goose wasn't quite cooked before the kids knew, it was certainly cooked, burnt and stomped on after they knew. She sealed her fate BIG TIME with that little stunt.
My questions are just that; questions. Not suggestions. But I pose them b/c i think they need answering before you decide.
Nor do I think your d has had enough time to process all this but I would ask her if she thinks her friend's family is truly so much better off now that they divorced...
and imo, she sounds a bit overly dramatic to not come out of her room for days. What's that about? But that's just me.
You've been thru a LOT...more than the average "OP" announcement. I get that...
and the kids finding out stinks more...way more.
BUT
Per the DBing way...okay, so what NOW?
HE seems to get it, and he sure seems to be doing the work.
How useful is it for us to keep harping on how bad the D or you have it
if this is a pro marriage site?
That's my point.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I think your D's reactions are very very normal. I think isolating herself in the room to think things over, realise what just happened, come to terms with your devastation which she clearly sees etc etc is a healthy reaction. And as you said, the more invested she was in your family the greater the shock is for her as well. My 9 yr old D, wont allow anyone to even say a bad thing as a joke for her father. If she had to face such a realization I am sure she would be devastated.
Discussion and questions (about whether other people's families are better off divorced), IMHO, can be done after the initial shock has subsided and when she is ready to participate. And it sounds like she is getting there.
I can imagine the stress you are dealing with, the affair, the OW, your kid's emotions. Especially the kids can play a big role in what happens in the future so I believe it's a good thing you are dealing with this and are active about it and strong.
It is amazing he signed you in for Retro already. There is thread in piecing from my friend Sara who is actively involved in Retro programs that you may find helpful.
We went after we had a fight while piecing. I was no longer in the "since h apologized it's fine complacent phase..."
When we looked it up, it was in our area the same weekend as our anniversary...geez universe, we hear you!
It was pleasantly surprising but give it the whole time. I mean the first night I thought "Okay, fine..we'll see" but by the last day I saw and felt some deep movement within both of us.
Trust the process.
There are team couples there who will share their stories. Some of them have been through some stuff that is even tougher or wackier than yours and for us it gave me hope b/c I figured if THAT couple could make it, we could
(one couple had the h having a full blown affair while their child was dying and did die...another couple had an out of wedlock baby, bankruptcies, etc
and yet here they were, these couples who had been through FIRE, and THEY turned their m's around and made it THE priority in their lives...amazing really).
I'm happy for you. It'll help no matter what.
Good luck
(( ))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
