OW called our house

[Psych77]

No matter what happens to your M, it sounds like some healing is going on.

That post made me want to cry.

[Endeavour]

When I read your name under that headline, I was surprised, shocked, horrified - words don't even begin.

You and me both. Even my bf said she would have never thought H would be the type to have an affair. He's around all the time and in constant contact with me. BUT there's not much comfort in the fact he only saw ow a couple times a month.

I guess after thinking about it, I can imagine how he could have done this - having been so immature, unable to curb his own anger and look beyond the present moment, I can picture him making a childish decision about very adult actions. And because I always thought he was so much like me, I am all the more furious at him. Well, you understand.

Yes, I do understand but I know you would ever make that choice because you're more self-aware then my H. Although, he seems to be working on it. I've actually never heard him speak with such awareness before this incident. Well, at least not in years anyway...

I am so sorry that he did this to you, and to your children. I wish I could take you out for a cup of coffe just to get away from all this for a while, and listen supportively for a while, let you just process it. I think you deserve a good friend who can devote their full attention to your feelings right now, and just be there for you. I hope you have one. One who won't advise you one way or the other, but just understand.

Thanks, Psych. (()) I appreciate the thought. Bit of a plane ride for both of us though.

As for your H...well, I know what it's like to open your eyes and realize that you've been an immature PUTZ and hurt all the people that you love.

Pysch, this is exactly what my H called himself during one of our talks yesterday -- an immature PUTZ! Wow, you really do understand him.

Only my support and prayers. We are all here for you. ((((()))))

That means a lot. ((()))

[Endeavour]

Even though, H did a terrible thing, I do think he is indeed extremely remorseful and racked with horrible guilt, and that he will do everything in his power to gain his children's trust and respect again.

I am struck by what seems to be continued compassion and concern for your H and desire for him to rebuild his life and relationships with his children (whether with or without you) over time. Even in the midst of all that he has done.

You now have not only my sincerest sympathy, but my deep admiration as well.

Well, I'm not that compassionate. I admit I've called him and the ow a few choice words. None of which I can repeat here. I am cycling through rage right now and it's not pretty.

[Endeavour]

E - you seem better today. I am very impressed with how you are handling all this. I can see how strong and level headed you're being through this.

I absolutely hate what all this junk does to kids. Stay strong for them.

I would agree with the others, your H does seem remorseful about this.

I continue to keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

((()))

Yes, he does seem remorseful but he lied to me for over a year and I'm having a really difficult time with that fact. I don't know if I ever can or ever will trust him again.

This is hard stuff, jb.

Thanks for your support as always. ((()))

[Endeavour]

Jesus, this is Fatal Attraction!

Can someone call her h? Would that make things worse? What the heck??

She's officially creeping me out now.

Maybe the one good thing is that she's uniting you guys? Scary and pathetic. She needs help. But that is not your job to get her. Maybe call the cops...tell them she sounds like a danger to herself or you...or her h...?? (which she does!)

Yes, she is definitely showing signs of possible bunny boiling behaviour. (Gee, what a big surprise that H picked such a nutjob ow considering his state of mind.) I take some comfort in the fact that I would never resort to such nonsense.

Anyway, H thinks she's eventually going to stop contacting him in the next couple of days, but I doubt it. I think she may go away for awhile but she'll start up again in a few weeks or a few months. She was counting on my H to leave his family for her, and apparently has her own H moving out by Christmas. (Her big plans are unraveling and she's losing it!)

As for her H, my foolish H still thinks he knows about their R. As for contacting ow's H, I'm not sure if it's the right thing to do because if he doesn't know, then I'm not going to be responsible for bringing another family to it's knees. The fact that she planned to "out" H because she wanted to "share the pain" she was feeling just shows how truly selfish this woman is and I will not participate in fueling her dramatics. That might send her over the edge. (And yes, I am a wee bit scared of what she might do next.) For instance, contacting H's family and outing their A.

Anyway, if she continues with her crazy texts and calls, I've asked my H to tell her he will file a restraining order (not sure if he can in this case though as she's only calling at this point.)

[aeolianchaos]

Endeavour -

I know it may be premature, but since you like Passionate Marriage, I'd recommend dropping $10 and downloading the 2 hour talk Schnarch gave on Extramarital Affairs. It is intended for MFT and Sex Therapists, but as I found it extremely accessible.

Listening to it really helped me to deal with a lot of things in how I individually processed my WAW's affair.

Particularly questions like "How could they do this to me?" and issues such as trust.

In a lot of ways, your H's affair sounds like my WAW only he seems to have a lot more insight about his behaviors.

His recognition of a desire to hurt you is kind of impressive, in the context of his being an immature putz. Most people would not admit to this kind of marital sadism or have the insight to recognize it. As hurtful as his behavior has been, the fact that he seems to be recognizing his motivations gives me some hope that he may indeed be in the process of growing up in a way that you would need him to in order for you to remain M.

You're in a hell of a place, but you also have the opportunity to shape a path forward with a lot of perspective and insight that most people probably don't possess.

[~¤DG¤~]

E-

He has to be able to block her phone number.
He should also call the police and let them know she is harassing him and get them involved. My H's ex went psycho on me not too long after we were married and I had to get them involved, but it stopped.

You know, I always said that an A is a deal breaker also. I've since learned that you can't say exactly what you would do for sure in a situation like this until it happens.

I am sure your feelings are all over the place. Anger, sadness, etc and I completely understand that. Just take a while to really process everything so you will be able to make a decision not based on emotions

I am in awe of your strength.

[25yearsmlc]

Endeavor,

As stated before, maritally speaking you need decide nothing TODAY but

batchit crazy may need to be addressed SOON...

RE: Retrovaille, (hope I'm not repeating myself here b/c 2 other people asked me about it...sorry if this was posted earlier...here goes)

Retrovaille for Us-was done a year into Piecing...we were fighting and backsliding and complacency was no longer an option for me.

I drew a line in the sand and h immediately agreed. (He was probably sick of it too). So off we went...it was

1) a very pleasant surprise b/c we've been in marriage encounters (when times were good or we just needed a tune up)

and some personal growth workshops- 1 of which was SO worth the money & which h joined me on. SO I Didn't expect a revelation or profound experience like that workshop h joined me on, but thought it made sense to give it a try.

Retrovaille was different in that there was no public sharing, or very little that I recall. Instead you have some "team" couples who share their stories of crisis and how they somehow got through it, turned it around and made their R THE priority in their lives.

These stories & couples all had serious dealbreaking situations and nightmares, imo. One couple had lost a child to a drug overdose, another to murder AND their spouse had an affair right after...lovely. Some had out of wedlock children, a sick parent moving in, kid problems and bankruptcy, etc.

yet these couples turned their marriages around. Hard not to feel inspired.


Several times I thought, "geez, If these people can hack it and mostly be happy, so can we."

(As an aside, some people worry Retrovaille is "too religious." I can only speak to the one we attended. There was a retired priest nearby who offered to discuss any religious aspects if anyone was interested, in private,

AND OR

w/"anyone who has been harmed by the Catholic Church or any organized religion", which I thought was dang brave of him.

No dogma was preached although I imagine an atheist would be uncomfortable b/c spirituality and a r with God are discussed. My h is not Catholic yet he felt at ease.

Also Retrovaille does offer "Protestant Only" and Interfaith versions but our "regular version" of it, wasn't preachy.)

2) Endeavor--here's the killer thing about that weekend vis a vis the kids.

I had felt the weekend was very productive but the last day of it, I really got a gift.

My h was telling me with the use of an analogy and metaphor (Retrovaille's exercise for that hour) how he felt about something...

Suddenly he began crying (he is NOT a crier) and described what he saw as the effects of HIS choices on the family. (Mind you, this was a year into piecing...)

Said he "sees a well dressed man next to a wrecked car.

The money is all gone, and the passengers are all on life support.

No one knows if they're going to make it."

I really heard him take ownership of putting all his R's in our family on life support, b/c of his choices, not to mention the fortune it cost us.

At that moment I knew he fully recognized that he had deeply wounded our children, mostly our 1st D. He got it. I hugged him and I think I said "you're forgiven" and I sure meant it. (He has had to say the same to me in the past.)

D22 still has issues with men and I worry about that a lot. But I have no control over it.

And if DB taught me anything, it's to do what you can, and let go of the rest.

I hope you go to Retrovaille b/c for couples in crisis, it's great.

Of our 25 couples attending 19-20 are still married 3 years later and that's amazing, given the situations they were in at the time.

Don't know where you live but when we looked it up here, it was literally on our anniversary weekend within an hour's drive.

Hello? Can the universe get any clearer?

Family stuff-

Good luck with batchit crazy and your family.

Can you guys rent some comedies? If d refuses to leave her room, can she spend some time with s7? Are they close? She needs to reach out to someone in the family soon...

How is your d's friends' family with the A, NOW coping?

Are they divorcing?

I once heard that a book called "After the Affair" is a good one.

Also, I once seriously considered an A when h was in training/unavailable/sleep deprived/incredibly irritable and critical DRAG to be around for like 3 years....

glad I didn't. It wasn't easy for me not to, but I sought out a chaplain and lucked out with a great one. Also saw a shrink and called a few pro-M friends and family who didn't judge. They knew I was very neglected but they helped me see the logical consequences of where the A would go...I'd either fall in love with OM and then be horribly torn about what to do...and someone would get really hurt

OR I'd have a Physical thing only, to meet my need for attention and sex and
always struck me as pathetic. Not a realistic option for me...

But if I had gone on, and if h found out, I'd hope he'd forgive me b/c we are a good team. And if he tried to shame me --I'd have rationalized it totally...(I sure did back then)

Sounds like your h gets it though...a lot sooner than mine did.

let your heart heal some more for now and see where it leads you in the next few..."units of time"...

Remember that your choice will determine which legacy you leave your children.

In some ways divorce SEEMS easier...the thought of "all the work" to do is overwhelming to some....which is why Retrovaille is a great idea no matter what you do maritally-you'll accept each other more.

But from what I see in life and on these boards, there's work to do either way. And not much of a "reward" for the divorce work...

But witnessing the redemption of a man, and the forgiveness of a betrayed spouse, are valuable legacies to leave one's children.

These are legacies that are passed on go to the next generation much like my grandmother's death in childbirth still affects us down the road...

And much like a lesson I learned growing up next to a Colonel and his lovely family.
The Colonel had had an A years earlier. How do I know? Everyone knew...as w never let him forget it.

He was a war hero and had been a POW for 5 years, and everytime I wanted to ask him about it, she'd cut him off & interrupt the stories. I never once got an answer from him in time...can you believe that? Anyhow He helped my h with his officer application and was a nice guy to his kids and us, and in front of us, he was always a gentelman to his w.

I'm sure he had his dark side, obviously. But to tell you the truth, I often wondered why he stayed with such an unforgiving bitter woman.

She made every social occasion awkward at least once...her daughters ALL have issues with men and marriage today, and I don't blame HIM for that, I blame her...

From where we sat, SHE was the wrong party, you know? I learned then and there that

the worst case scenario in a situation like that, was to stay and NOT forgive, b/c she made everyone--herself, her h, their kids- miserable with it. Never let it go, to say the least. And yes, he had apologized to her and the kids...

Despite your h's A, it sounds as if you are owning your contribution to this, correct? So maybe you can end the old m, and begin the new one...in time


(( ))

[25yearsmlc]

ps

might seem like I'm telling you what to do. I'm really not.

Just saying what it could be like, perhaps, in time and with work...

Good luck and no judgement will come from here if you decide you simply cannot forgive it in a way that makes sense.

I never saw forgiveness growing up, so for me it was a learned skill. Took time even once I chose to do it.

[jbnati]

This is hard stuff, jb.

E, I can only imagine.

The OW just freakin' scares me. I would have authorities on speed dial.

You are very strong. I am glad see the others circling the wagons for you right now. We're here for you.