Thanks -- and 'intellectually' i know you are right 25. (do u ever use a first name or something I can call u? I feel like u are a friend, and...well, if you have something I can call u, let me know. No problem if not)
W says OW is SOOOOOOO emotionally healthy, far ahead of her, etc.... W believes she herself is SOOOOOOO far ahead of me that she's had to 'lead me' emotionally. (true in that case- my family is very intellectual/educated - little emotional connections)
I like the 'alien spew'. That made me smile. When I read it again and thought about it, you're right. She's speaking in absolute negatives and trying to justify this BS she's pulling and putting OW on a pedestal. BTW OW is in a job that requires some higher education, but not publishing/writing/research type work I also do.
OW is def. not an intellectual. One thing W says is that she and OW don't have to discuss 'lofty' things all the time. (she says I spend too much time thinking, discussing world events, politics, philosophy, literature, sociological trends, etc....etc......) Personally I think it makes me dam*ed well- rounded and interesting!! I am interested in the world and love to hear others' ideas. In my career I LIVE to learn -- I teach, I write, I learn, I live. I guess I've always thought that was an attractive thing. Go figure huh?
Gotta go to work right now, but want to address some more things later regarding my IC appointment yesterday. Interesting.
Me (f): 45 W(f) 35 T: 13 y C: S4 adopted at birth 6-18-11 bomb: I want to break up 8-28-11 OW confirmed
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Sorry I hadn't posted. 25, I'm so flattered that you thought of me.
Last night I was just too worn out to form a coherent sentence. I was watching W text OW and I just checked out and went to sleep. Today I was working and trying to GAL, at least getting out of the house! I have a writing deadline, and I've been trying to concentrate on that and not on my sitch. Not totally successful, but not a terrible teary day either.
Ok, first the IC session was interesting. Since C sees me, W and OW, I was very alert to body language, etc... What actually happened was C is a supporter of DBing--- of course she doesn't want me (anyone) to put all their eggs in one basket, etc.... but of course, as we all know DBing is for US more than anything.
So C said a few things - not sure ethically how much she SHOULD say/have said, but anyway, when I told her I know that W and OW are having a R, she looked genuinely shocked- she actually said "I would be really surprised if they were in a relationship" Hmmmm. Well, I guess W and OW haven't been in to see C lately, because they certainly are not 'friends'.
C also told me that W had checked out emotionally a long time ago from our R (which i knew, and actually was the one who brought that up) and that W is 'done' with our R. When we discussed DBing, C added that W is 'done' with the R for now. That NOW is not the time to try to get back together, etc.... ALL stuff I/we here already know. Work on myself...
She also said that she believes W will always have feelings for me and that statistically many couples who have children and have spent more than a decade together usually end up at least giving it one more try. (if I get one more try, I will know what I can do on my part to make the R better 2nd time).
C believes I tried too hard to please W and lost myself to some extent. C said, "You were always trying to change into whatever W wanted you to be. Who are YOU?" Good question.
C also said that W has been very unhappy inside - and that W has a lot of growing she needs to do on her own. She says W has so much unhappiness inside that has nothing to do with me. She says W may sitting where she is feeling unhappy and thinking... well--- if I run away and do something COMPLETELY diffrent, maybe I will be happy. C basically said that W has some things to work on and growth.... (which may be why C would be surprised that W and OW are hitting the proverbial sheets now)
So tonight S is with grandmother. I am out GAL = which for me is right now sitting a a coffee shop writing. But W doesn't know where I am, and it's peaceful here.
What do u think 25? As always, I wait for your wisdom
(oh and S, me and my mom are going out of town tomorrow to visit family. Very different for me-- So I will be back here on Sunday)
Me (f): 45 W(f) 35 T: 13 y C: S4 adopted at birth 6-18-11 bomb: I want to break up 8-28-11 OW confirmed
Oh, and I am near the East Coast -- THe workshop you mentioned in PA I believe it was, actually isn't THAT far from me. I would love to explore that possibility.
Me (f): 45 W(f) 35 T: 13 y C: S4 adopted at birth 6-18-11 bomb: I want to break up 8-28-11 OW confirmed
I am new to your thread and just wanted to tell you how much I empathize will all of the emotions you are feeling. I will let the more wise/experienced DBers give you advice, but I wanted to drop in just to offer my support.
25years is so right, you are blaming yourself WAY too much. Yes, its important to be accountable for the changes you need to make in yourself (and you are)...but ultimately, this isn't about you. Let me tell you how I know.
A very long time ago in the early years of my (recently-dissolved) relationship when I was about 20 years old, I became depressed - clinically depressed. The reasons were many: a family history of depression, unresolved issues from my extremely chaotic childhood (my Mother abandoned our family and both parents were physically abusive), as well as general fears and anxieties about the future that young people face. During this period of depression, I reconnected with a male friend. Was I attracted to him...not really, but still, I found myself mired in the belief that life would be better with him than with the man (my Ex-P) that I had been with for about four years at that time. Did I have an affair - NO! The guilt would have killed me and intellectually, I valued the man I was with too much, but still, I found myself trying to be around this other guy all of the time. He "understood" me, or so I thought. He was "emotionally deep" - or so I thought. We talked about our childhoods and understood each other, we cried together over our pain...
Truth is, this other man did "understand" me - why? Because he was just as messed up as I was at that time! Truth is, he was "emotionally deep"...why?...because he was in crisis too and so all of his feelings seemed more intense! But I didn't realize those things at the time - I just thought that the man I was living with was cold and shallow in comparison. Moreover, I just wanted to escape from the drudgery and pain of my own bad feelings and unhappiness - it wouldn't have mattered if I had the world's most perfect mate. I just wanted a diversion.
Long story short, I got very 'sucked in', but ultimately, I didn't pursue a relationship with him because of my own personal ethical code. But it was still so tempting...and he wasn't even attractive to me. The appeal of this other man wasn't his good qualities, but his negativity and emotional instability, which mirrored mine.
Yeah, we understood each other - for all of the wrong reasons. We were 'deep' - deeply self-absorbed.
So when your W says that you are emotionally 'behind her' or 'underdeveloped', I question whether or not she isn't just depressed/unhappy/unstable herself and seeking someone who is also in turmoil to commiserate with. YOU do not seem to be an emotionally stunted person. But when I was depressed, I was attracted to the OM because I thought, "He's been there, he UNDERSTANDS this, maybe he can fix me!"
Truth is, two broken people can never fix each other.
The sad irony to all of this is that even at 20 years old, my personal integrity would not allow me to cheat on or abandon the man I was living with. Now, this same man is more than twice the age I was then and is having his own crisis of sorts, and he walked out the door saying 'there must be more to life than feeling like this'...and I've found it with another woman. For me, the sadness of my youth is back - but much, much, much more profoundly, for now I am truly alone.
I know this was a long story about my own brush with an EA many years ago, but when I heard what your W was saying, and how you were internalizing it all as though it were a fundamental truth about yourself, well I just had to speak up. Your character is not flawed...I can't say that for your W at this moment.
So to summarize, your W is saying you are emotionally underdeveloped because you are (well, you WERE) happy, content, fulfilled, and stable. She wants emotional intensity, which really means emotional instability. She wants someone who is self-absorbed, just like she is at the moment.
Does any of this make sense? Trust me, I've been there, I've thought the words your W is saying to you...and then I grew up! I'm thankful I had the character to not act on my emotions. Some people don't. It took me years though, to understand the dynamic behind my feelings back then.
Good luck and keep respecting yourself. You aren't 100% responsible for your W's feelings and behaviors, so don't take 100% of the blame.
Me: 35 Him: 43 Together: 19 1/2 years 1st Bomb (IDLYAM): March 2011 2nd Bomb (OW): April 2011 He abandons home/bills/everything: May 2011 He's bought a new house for OW: September 2011
first, thank GOD you have that c! (Thank you, Universe.)
doesn't mean you might not have to switch later on---like for more mystery b/c she may well share info with w, but what the heck, savor the moment.
Clearly w is not as sharing about her LOVE and her HAPPINESS with all....and as for OW, pfffff...as my teenagers say, "whatevs"...
The workshop is in Philly and it's called Essential Experience ("EE"). Check out their website.
I have done a lot of other workshops and here's the difference.
1) it's designed for fundamentally "well" people who are cognitively aware of themselves. IDK how else to say that. There will be a lot of educated people there, but enough blue collar to keep it down to earth. I learned about the universal condition of man, in that I bonded the most with the telephone operator whose heart had been broken. In my "real life' I would have made stupid presumptions about her, so my educational snobbism vanished fast.
2) if you trust the process and stop all the resisting, you will be profoundly moved and changed. You will make an action plan to change your life based on your discoveries there.
3) there's no pressure to recruit for money after you go, (thank GOD). Oh Sure, People are enthusiastic (I wanted everyone I knew to go. I told my senior rater in the US Army-a Colonel, to go!)
Support groups continue on & are free (and supportive!) I think there are 1-2 graduate workshops but there's not a continuing emphasis on more classes/seminars and more money...which i've felt at Landmark.
4) EE so affected me that when I flew home, my MD h, literally saw a difference in me at the airport. He later said "you definitely looked different. You were so calm and just looked radiant"...(not bad!)
After a few days at home he said, "I think I'd like to do it too." (UNPRECEDENTED!!)
so HE goes a few months later and I'm waiting for him to call me and tell me how much he loves it and how great it is, etc...but no call comes...
By Sat Nite I'm freaking out b/c he hasn't called me and I'm thinking, wth? Am I his "issue"? Am I holding him back? Is he discovering that secretly our m is the mistake of his life?
he calls me late that night and says "Thank you for the best gift I've ever gotten."
Later on, we went together, as members of the "team" and bonded even more. I highly recommend going first, alone.
Don't go with someone you know well if you have any issues with them b/c you want to be as candid as possible w/o worrying about their feelings. Make sense?
Also it costs about $800 or something like that. To me that is cheap b/c it's more than 50 hours of therapy and it's so much more efficient!
How? B/C in T, I hated making breakthroughs with my t and then having to go back to work or pick up my kids, etc....plus it's hard to make a breakthrough with just talk and only for 50 min at a time.
Taking 3-4 days of your life to go and stop at the Scenic overlook --ASSESS YOUR LIFE & DIRECTION OF IT-- is worth it.
Best money I ever spent. And we were broke at the time we went. I was pregnant with our 2nd child too.
*I was doing criminal defense at the time and my job sucked out my will to live. Very ugly stuff, which EE also helped me with.
Without EE and the tools I got there, I don't know if we'd have
1) been as happily m as we were for a good 15 years, and I mean happy- as in the expressed envy of other couples;
or
2) had our 3rd child; OR
3) made the career move I made...
So when the MLC came up, I had good memories of our m before so I knew we had something special between us...but I knew I needed some tools specifically for a long m and an MLCer...which I got here, mostly. And which aligned a lot.
Really h was being selfish. Can't say it another way.
But Dealing with betrayal was something EE did kind of prepare me for in that we are taught not to go to dry wells for a drink when we are thirsty...you know? Just stop it.
Some people go back to their alcoholic parent time and time again, only to be disappointed. It's a pattern in their life...they can BS around it but it is what it is.
EE is experiential w/a few talks tossed in to explain some new concepts. So you don't get a lot of time to "rehearse" your answers and BS some therapist.
It's raw that way. And I learned a lot about myself I didn't think was true...and yet...
You will discover things about YOU that IMO, can best be discovered in a safe supportive environment like that. (Safe meaning you won't be judged.)
And that is why I highly suggest it for you, and at this time.
"You fit the profile"...
In sum, I thought it was the single most profound experience of my life, short of giving birth.
And no, I don't get a kickback for saying that. But if you go, let me know so I can make a call or two.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I was checking in reading a few posts - but haven't had time to post myself yet. Seeing family was really nice. W and I had dinner last night. I will have to post specs on that later b/c I have some questions.
AND I did NOT talk anything to death ---!!! Rubber band on wrist --- knife/salt in wound...no R talk. I've kept that promise to myself over a week now. YAY!!
Will post later tonight. Look forward to insight. Wish I had more for others.
Me (f): 45 W(f) 35 T: 13 y C: S4 adopted at birth 6-18-11 bomb: I want to break up 8-28-11 OW confirmed
