Semi-WAS on the Seesaw 4Forever

[Endeavour]

I am getting the feeling from you that maybe you have reached the point where understanding more about him is no longer comforting to you (?) Because eventually you realize that knowing doesn't change anything. Because, ultimately, the only thing that really matters is that HE understands his issues, and even that doesn't matter unless he DOES something about it.

Yes, and I am also beginning to realize that this crisis had to happen in order for us to grow. However, I am still trying to understand what role I played because I'm not entirely sure what my 180's need to be...

I'm slowly making sense of them though, as I ponder both my contributions and H's, to the demise of our H. In looking at H's issues, I believe I am developing more clarity on mine. (Actually, I believe I reached a new level of clarity last night, which I will post more about later).

I will say that it sounds like H has abandonment issues. Mom, with whom he was overly-enmeshed "abandoned" him. It doesn't matter that she died, or that it wasn't of her choosing...emotions don't know enough to tell the difference. He relied on her for a lot of his emotional well-being. And he relies on YOU for a lot of his emotional well-being. She left him, and he had no control, no power over that happening. I think he is afraid you will leave him. And, whether he realizes it or not, I think when he is most afraid of that (when he gets your "list" and argues, when there is conflict between you, etc.), he "bombs." At least if he pushes you away, he was not without power over the situation. People will sometimes embrace what they dread better if they make it happen themselves, because having control makes it less threatening. People are stupid, that way. It is a childish, ridiculous game to play. But if I've learned anything, it is that emotions never grow up. A person has to learn to think when emotions are in play, and if you haven't learned that by the time you are an adult, it is not easy to pick up.

I think you may be onto something here, Psych. I always believed I was the one with abandonment issues but H and has said more than once during all this, that he thinks I will eventually leave him someday anyway. And that as I continue to become more self-assured and confident, that I will eventually realize that I can do better than him. He has also said that he feels sometimes that he will never make me happy. (I can see more clearly now how I triggered his guilt and shame).

When I first heard him express those feelings, I guess I thought he was simply trying to put the blame on me in order to relieve some of his own guilt over leaving (or at least attempting to leave). However, maybe just maybe, there is some truth in those statements. I'm not sure yet.

You know, that brings up something that has been occurring to me over and over again as I read your posts. When you describe both your H and your D, I get the strong feeling that I am reading about people who are very intellectually developed, but have never really integrated their emotions. That is to say, people who are so adept at reason and logic, that when strong emotions occur, they don't know where they fit into the "equation," and may not know how to handle them or what to do with them.

This is an interesting observation. I have noticed that both my H and my D do become very overwhelmed by strong emotions. And both of them resort to isolation and addictions to soothe themselves - D16 with food - H with alcohol. It's interesting but again, I don't exactly know what to do with this information except try to be understanding.

H seems to want either a quick fix for issues or an obvious solution in order for him to feel at peace. It's as if he can't handle a situation when things are complicated and needs to escape. He's gone to two IC sessions, and all this has done is to convince him to bomb me again. Ironically, many times throughout or R, he has accused me of being negative and has said that he's more positive BUT I think the real truth lies somewhere in the middle. I'm not as negative as he believes and he's not as positive as he believes. I'm more likely to search for a solution to a problem, whereas H is more likely to wash his hands of it, or leave it up to me to solve. Looking back over our R, I can see how this dynamic was at play when it came to other situations involving our in-laws, or our kids, etc.

Having Asperger's (and a S who also has) I am a virtual expert on that dynamic . I am usually either unaware of my emotions, or so overpowered by them that I can't function. Integrating them is a HUGE part of my current therapy.


In fact, early on in therapy, I had to bring W in for a session, because in many instances she literally can express what my feelings are better than I can. And her presence helped clarify some things, because I am not good at reading her feelings.

I do think H relies on me to make sense of his emotions, to some degree. For instance, it's strange he will bomb me, and then probe me further for information on my feelings, and ask for reassurance that he is loved. Then he needs to go off and think, and read, and ponder.

I'm not sure however, if I simply confuse him more because he believes I'm more adept at understanding our issues or emotions. Therefore, he's convinced that maybe his feelings are wrong and mine are right. Or if he's really DONE and he's looking to me to confirm this for him because he's relied on me in this manner in the past. I'm not sure.

Not that your family has Asperger's as well (or they might, who knows), but I wonder if that pattern is being played out there. And, if it is, how would that affect your position?

Well, actually funny you should mention that as I have been reading about Asperger's because the thought did occur to me as I was reading about your experiences. It's definitely something I have considered.

All in all, I'm still not sure how any of these revelations should affect my position. Should I continue to help H make sense of his conflicting emotions because I have taken that role in the past, or am I stopping him from working out his own issues and enabling him to remain in a state of confusion?

Perhaps, he is trying to separate himself from me because deep down he knows he needs to do this in order to grow as a person? Can he do this within a marriage? Yes. But he is in cognitive dissonance and his frame of reference is escape and withdrawal.

But look at the whole thing from the other side. You said something you figured would be offensive and obnoxious to him. What strikes me as interesting was the fact that he didn't explode. He didn't turn it into an opportunity to drop the bomb. I wouldn't take it as proof positive that he has changed - like any other change a person makes, it will be filled with backslides and moments of hope - but could it be a sign that he is actually putting some of his good intentions into action? A moment when you could actually see his effort? Maybe not something you want to think about now. I know it is exhausting to keep hope when it is so often contradicted by inconsistent actions from your H.

Knowing my H, I interpret his response as a warning to back off - that he doesn't want to discuss this issue further. Yes, he validated my point of view but he often does that when he wants to withdraw but I never get the sense that he really "gets" or cares about my opinion when he uses language like that. It's almost like he's placating me. Something he does often when he's not raging. He uses two tactics in fights but neither come from a place of true understanding or conflict resolution. Does that make sense?

Also, his R related texts have stopped since I made that comment so I think he's angry and stewing about it. He's withdrawing again because I said something that he didn't want to hear, or truly acknowledge.

I have hope for your M. But I also hear what you are saying. You have gone through so much, and, honestly, even with your H's sincere commitment to change, it would take time and it sounds like his instability is far from over. I don't want to you lose the good that you can be to each other, but you need to keep your own mental health intact.

I'm not sure I have a lot of hope at this point, Psych. My H is a very conflicted man. I'm not sure if his confusion is due to pain because he wants to stay and he doesn't know how he can because he can't make sense of our issues or his feelings. Or if he's conflicted because he feels guilty for wanting to abandon me which trickles down to the children. I'm not sure.

I think he might believe that the only way to his happiness is to escape the pain of our M but then his guilt over sacrificing his children's happiness and mine gets in his way. He's expressed both. One minute, he's saying that he would like our M to work, for us to be happy together but he doesn't believe that's possible. Then he asks for my list of issues and claims they are not insurmountable. But then says in the next breath that we are not compatible, we've grown apart, too much hurt has occurred and he doesn't see us growing old together. Or he doesn't want to grow old with me.

I'm not sure who is the real H.

He did text me a few days ago (I think I posted it) and expressed that he doesn't want to say anything stupid. So clearly something he's saying to me, he considers stupid. I'm not sure which statements he's referring to, or which side of the equation those statements fall on.

H walked in again. No time to proof-read...