Youngster's WAW Still Chooses OM!

[westcoastfella]

I really appreciate everything you said, and I understand almost all of it. One question though (just for my knowledge): How is my listening to her about OM "enabling" her decisions? I want to understand this so I know how to explain it to her if/when I talk to her next.

I get that I shouldn't let her problems become mine. But I'm scared because I also feel like I should be there for her, too. I'm obviously doing something that OM can't/won't do -- I don't want her to think that I won't be there for her, either. In addition, her comments about being depressed and thinking of suicide scare me, too. I don't want her to feel alone to the point where something bad might happen.

[Truegritter]

How is my listening to her about OM "enabling" her decisions?

You are not letting her feel the consequences of her decision.

She is making sure she has you still "on the line"

And you are allowing it.

More importantly. MOST importantly. How does it make you feel about YOU?

IMO you NEVER will need to hear about how it is breaking or got broken with OM.

Even if/when you begin to reconcile. It doesn't matter.

It is noise.

Let her figure it out West. On her own.

[westcoastfella]

Thanks for the explanation, Gritter. Makes a whole lot more sense. I hate having to do this. It feels entirely paradoxical to what I want to do (i.e. be there for her when she "needs" me). But I understand that it is these paradoxical manuevers that probably do the most good. She still does not truly understand what it will be like if I'm not in her life anymore. (If we ever do talk, I want to express that I DO want her to call me if she's actually feeling suicidal. I want to let her go to figure her stuff out and so I can start living my life, too, but I never want to shut her out if she's feeling like she wants to hurt herself.)

Given that she has chosen the S over reconciliation, I want to give her a good taste of that. She has this fantasy in her mind of us dating other people and being separated, but still chatting and talking like platonic buddies. Sorry, but I feel like she's out of her gourd if she expects that from me (which it kind of feels like she is, but I digress). It hurts too much, and I'm tired of her using my heart as a yo-yo. Plus, she's really distracting me from GAL-ing. When we talked on Friday, she pointed out that I was cooped up in my apartment rather than out doing stuff and being with people. For some reason, it REALLY hurt (and probably jump-started the depression). Almost like she was judging me for being anti-social, even though I don't think that was her intent. Guess it just hurt to know how lonely I am right now.

The depression is slowly lifting. I was actually able to watch a movie last night, which I didn't even feel like I could do on Monday. Maybe tonight I might do some writing as well. That's been a big struggle for me. As soon as I sit down in the chair, I get a wave of emotion like my body's saying, "Can't do this. Just can't."

I might also hang out with an old school friend over the weekend. I borrowed her copy of "Watchmen" and need to give it back to her. Might as well hang around with her while I'm at it. She's been a good friend since this has happened. On an interesting note, this is the same friend who my W freaked out in jealousy at when she posted on my FB wall, then a month later started urging me to go out with / asking me if we've "done" anything together. My W continues to ask if I'm dating anyone with almost every phone conversation we have. I fully doubt that this has anything to do with me or my feelings -- it feels very much like if I was seeing someone else, it would alleviate whatever guilt she must be feeling. She knows deep down that what she's doing is wrong. She just doesn't want to do anything to make things right -- yet, anyway.

[♪CS♪]

My W continues to ask if I'm dating anyone with almost every phone conversation we have.

I remember an old rap song...

"I'm not a player, I just f&#% a lot"

Good answer?

Kidding...

The depression is slowly lifting.

Good to hear.

I hate having to do this. It feels entirely paradoxical to what I want to do (i.e. be there for her when she "needs" me).

Maybe re-read [edited by dbmod: reference not recommended nor allowed]?

She is having an A and you still want to be there for her? Make the A easier on her?

Gritters line is perfect... "You are not letting her feel the consequences of her decision."

I am hardly one to talk, I did it for months...

But at some point the true reality will hit and doing this will not seem counter intuitive. It will seem natural. It will be driven by strength and not fear.

And if it IS driven by strength it will not mean being any less caring than you want to be. It will mean you are respecting BOTH her AND yourself.

You will respect her CURRENT choice.

And you will be respecting YOUR mental health and boundaries.

[westcoastfella]

Wow! Thanks for that reply, CS. Something about your comment, "She is having an A and you still want to be there for her? Make the A easier on her?"....really drove it home for me at last. Sometimes it truly is harder to see the forest for the trees...

My biggest focus during this time has been striking a balance between being "there" for her and doing what's right for myself alone. Both you and Gritter have very graciously and wisely let me know that there is a way of finding a healthy, loving place in the middle. Which is what I want to start doing. It's okay to set some firm boundaries, but there's no reason to be a jerk about it, either.

[Truegritter]

but there's no reason to be a jerk about it, either.

Absolutely. A man who knows who he is does not endeavor to make another feel lesser than he, deliberately.

Such a man would be a jerk.

There is a happy place in the eye of the storm West.

You have to take yourself to a place where emotion does not rule. Where you can quickly set aside distraction from your W.

From there you will see things more clearly.

Please excuse misspellings and circle logic or otherwise bad philosphy and thought process. This was sent from Truegritter's mind after midnight

[♪CS♪]

I was about to reply and what do you know...

^^^^ Perfect

Even after midnight.

Ok Gritter. You can sleep now.

[westcoastfella]

Today, I went to court and finally got us separated. I had to wait for three hours to wait for everyone else to get their stuff taken care of, but my case took literally less than three minutes for the judge to sign off. Two things I noticed while in the courtroom:

1. I'm thankful that despite whatever my W and I are going through, neither of us have allowed ourselves to devolve into that vicious state where everything we share is a hurtful defense or attack on the other. We are almost always polite to each other at the very least. I saw a couple who exemplified the "messy D" sitch, and I want never to go there, no matter how bad I'm hurting from her actions.

2. Some people are really immature when it comes to a D. I understand if your S wants a D and you don't, but you don't score points by opposing the D in the courtroom (when it should have all been ironed out beforehand) or clowning around with the judge. It only seems to reinforce a S' desire to leave.

When the judge pronounced us separated, I felt almost nothing, though I felt sadness and anger in the hours waiting on the benches for my turn. I was at least relieved that this is no longer something that I'll have to deal with anymore -- trying to line it up with my work schedule has been a huge pain, especially since they only hold dissolution cases on Friday. I also felt strangely glad that now whatever I do to GAL or lovingly detach has that extra oomph. Next time she comes calling to cry to me about what a moron OM is or trying to see how my life is going, I can say, "W, we're separated now. You can't come to me about this stuff anymore. You're on your road now, and I'm on mine."

I texted my W with this info. Was very sparse and emotionless with this declaration. She texted back, "Thank you. Sorry that you've had to handle all of this but I think it's for the best." Not sure what she meant: the S itself or her plans to walk away from me entirely in the future. I felt tempted to text her back with questions or at least a response, but felt this to be of no benefit to either one of us. Was proud of that, even though it was something small. I'm doing a really good job at backing off, IMO. The clear and assertive boundary-drawing conversation is my next goal in communication, as I know that it will come around the corner sooner or later. My last convo of this sort sounded too weak and wimpy in my opinion. Sounded more distressed and depressed than assertive.

At some point, I will move things over to the "Separated -- What Now?" side of the forum, but I still consider myself a newbie. Once things settle, I might jump over there for a while.

[Truegritter]

"W, we're separated now. You can't come to me about this stuff anymore. You're on your road now, and I'm on mine."

Good line BUT do you mean it?

And more importantly does she think you do?

Does it sound or feel like this is spiteful?

Don't know but up to you?

West the sooner you find yourself based in your own choices and those based on your own values the better...

less achieving that the more wishy washy this will be for you.

[westcoastfella]

Could you elaborate on your response? I think I'm getting the logic of it, but I'm still not entirely sure what the bottom line is.

As to the line you quoted, I guess it does sound somewhat spiteful. Yesterday, I was in a pretty spiteful mood as to be expected. I want very much not to sound mean or petty if I have to tell her something like this, but I do want to make it clear that I am giving her the consequences of the life that she has chosen for us. I don't want her problems to be mine anymore. She forfeited my assistance in life when she took off with OM, and now I'm only just realizing what my response SHOULD have been when it first happened.