Treading water - time and patience

[NYCPeter]

Ok - feel very down today - I know this site is about DBing, but
at the prompting of my parents I had an initial consultation with a L this morning just to see what would happen in my sitch.

My W is a stay at home mum and has been since our D9 was born - because of this and because of our D9's disabilities I would likely need to pay lifetime spousal support.

Bottom line - in the event we were to get a D I would likely get 50% of marital assets (about 50k in equity in the home and 75k in the 401k I have from work). All assets in my W's name were brought into the marraige.

I would need to pay 25% child support and unless my W were to remarry pay 45% spousal support to "maintain the current standard of living" as well as ensuring healthcare coverage and life insurance.

I am not a selfish person - I am all for providing for my family - it's part of the reason we are in this sitch, it was my primary focus. How am I supposed to live on 30% of my salary in the NYC area? I would never be able to provide a home that my girls can come and visit and stay over - so by default I become a real part-time dad. I would never be able to buy them things and take them on trips. I'd likely need to share an apartment with someone to get by.

This has depressed me no end - my R may be ending against my wishes and I would be doubly punished in the future financially. What chance of a future R at those odds.

Sorry - just venting, I know I should be focusing on getting my M on track - but this just seems so unfair especially as it's something I do not want.

[NYCPeter]

More venting....

Only communication with W has been two text messages - both sent after 11:00pm, bith very breif describing the day and weather and ending with "Good Night", leaving it quite clear she didn't want or expect a reply.
Along the lines of
"We had a good day"
"D6 is still struggling with reading, she's just not trying."
"It's supposed to rain tomorrow,"
"Good night".

When I called yesterday my D6 answered and I had a chat with her and said mummy was in other room and couldn't talk.

So much for agreeing to be in contact the week they were up at the lake - it's like getting telegrams.

[NYCPeter]

Journaling -

They came back from lake on Friday night.
Zero emotion from my W since they've been back - spent Sat getting ready for the storm and spent the rest of the day with girls (W was working last night).

I really miss the intamacy - sleeping in a seperate room is doing me no good, it's been over 3 months now - does she not miss any imtamacy - unless of course she's getting it elsewhere, though there is no sign of that. At some stage I'll start looking for it elsewhere - I don't know when it'll happen, but I can't "do without" for the rest of my life - I'm not that old!

[NYCPeter]

Spent all day with the girls, then cooked dinner and cleaned up afterwards.

I have booked next week off work to do things with the W and girls - we were supposed to stay at FIL's beach house for a few days. I texted her last week saying I'd like to go on Mon - Thurs and got no response.

During dinner tonight - she tells me D9 has a doctor's appt on Tues and she was going out with a friend on Tues night.

I kinda lost it - I asked why she didn't have the decency to tell me what her plans were. I ask when we're going to the beach - her response, well we can go Weds morning and come back Thurs evening. Sure - I'd like a 3 hour drive each way for 2 days at the beach. Totally selfish and deliberately not communicating to me.

[NYCPeter]

Huge backslide for me last night.

The W and I were watching TV on the couch and her phone is on the kitchen counter, I go into kitchen to get some wine and I see she received a text from Carlos - no idea who Carlos is and why he would be texting her at 10:30.

I calmly asked her who is Calos. She said it was friend at work who was having problems because his wife and son had been deported back to Mexico - I told her to stop treating me like a 5 year old, that it's inapropriate for guys to be texting someone's wife at 10:30 at night. She said she sometimes talks to him as a friend about us - great, some guy with his wife out of the picture is talking to my wife about our relationship. Am I jealous - of course I am, she can't talk to me but she can talk to some guy at work.

We then talked about us - I asked her whether she was glad I was living under the same roof so that we can work on things, she said yes. She talked alot I validated - she said she has noticed changes in me, but never expected them. She has shut down our relationship and that she doesn't know how to or whether she wants to restart it again. She said if she was going to change it would take time and again reiterated that she doesn't know if she wants to change.

I told her I would always be here for her and the girls - that if she feels I am acting inappropriately or need to do something that she needs to speak up. She said this has nothing to do with me, it's whether she can change. She just wants to be happy and she is not sure she can be with me. That there is too much history and that she can't forget how bad our marraige was,

I said we had to have boundaries and I only have two (and these are my true boundaries) -
1. If a third party was to come into our relationship that it would be the end, no matter what else happens.
2. That if she were to want the relationship to end - she must be honest and say so rather than to keep us in limbo. I want to move forward with my life, I don't want to stay like this.

We were scheduled to go to MC on Thurs - I told her we need to re-schedule as we won't be here - I asked if next Thurs was fine, she said I suppose it's the best that we go again (hardly a glowing endoresment) and that we should have gone a couple of years ago and that it may now be too late. I said it's never too late snd she said she's not sure of that.

We ended it with a hug - nothing more, not sure if this has made me hopeful or fearful.

[NYCPeter]

Any thoughts on the text from Carlos last night? Or how the convo went?
I want to ask her what it said - if she swears she's not having an affair (as she does), then why is there any harm in asking??
I know the answer - because I am being controlling, but it is totally inappropriate behavior even if he is chasing.

[Valeska19]

I calmly asked her who is Calos. She said it was friend at work who was having problems because his wife and son had been deported back to Mexico - I told her to stop treating me like a 5 year old, that it's inapropriate for guys to be texting someone's wife at 10:30 at night. She said she sometimes talks to him as a friend about us - great, some guy with his wife out of the picture is talking to my wife about our relationship. Am I jealous - of course I am, she can't talk to me but she can talk to some guy at work.

Own this. See if there was truth behind it? What can you do to change this dynamic?

We then talked about us - I asked her whether she was glad I was living under the same roof so that we can work on things, she said yes. She talked alot I validated - she said she has noticed changes in me, but never expected them. She has shut down our relationship and that she doesn't know how to or whether she wants to restart it again. She said if she was going to change it would take time and again reiterated that she doesn't know if she wants to change.

Her seeing changes is a GOOD thing.. no matter her decision. Keep them up.

As for her reiterating that she doesn't know if she wants to change. That's fear on her part... and please understand even if you keep up the good work, it is HER place to take away HER fear. Make it as safe as possible for her to do so but realize the ball is completely in her court when it comes to dealing with HER issues.

I said we had to have boundaries and I only have two (and these are my true boundaries) -
1. If a third party was to come into our relationship that it would be the end, no matter what else happens.

Really? To me that's the same is saying "If you do x, this is it" You've taken away the possibility of your heart changing, her heart changing, and if your spiritual God changing the situation.. It seems very limiting and honestly.. something you can't hold to be true.

2. That if she were to want the relationship to end - she must be honest and say so rather than to keep us in limbo. I want to move forward with my life, I don't want to stay like this.

That's pressure NYC. Of course we want answers. None of us want to live in limbo and Lord knows there will be days that we just want it to end. You can't make your w be honest with you. You have to let that go.

Hmm.

My first take is that these boundaries were not to protect you but to make sure she knew what she could and couldn't do. It's so easy for us to mix up the two because in a way we are stating "by setting up this boundary, I am stopping you from doing x". But the boundary is for US not THEM, even though they will be affected. I hope that makes sense.

I struggle with setting boundaries with my w all the time. I struggle with those feelings too. So trust me when I say.. I GET IT!

I'm not saying to put up with infidelity or to be in limbo forever at all. I'm just saying to make sure that your boundaries are 100% for your emotional well being and not to "show your w a lesson"

In regards to the Carlos text message. You said you are jealous. You fear she is reaching out to someone else. Again how can you change it??

Maybe this would be a good time to do an 180. If it's true, and Carlos has lost his family.. he must be hurting so bad. Instead of feeling jealous about what YOU aren't getting, maybe show empathy for what HE is feeling.

If it's more than that.. you can't stop it. But it sure does make it harder on w if you are showing compassion and love instead of justifying her fears.

Hang in there Peter. This is hard stuff, but you'll be stronger in the end.

(( ))

[Accuray]

NYCPeter,

I have not read all of your threads, but many of them. I was in a similar situation, for not nearly as long a period of suffering, and caught some lucky breaks. In my situation, there was an EF involved I was unaware of, and my W was acting like yours.

Since you are "laying down the law" WRT no 3rd parties, there is no way your W is going to tell you if there is someone else, and will certainly go the extra mile to hide it. If there is an OM, you are going to be frustrated in your efforts until that ends. You might consider backing off your mandate here and see what you learn.

My W told me that she was unhappy in our relationship, and that she was seeing an IC to work through it. I considered that a wake up call, offered to do MC (W refused), and then tried doing everything I could to 180, GAL, etc., but all my efforts were getting me nowhere, she was cutoff and detached, and my efforts only seemed to frustrate her and further push her away. I felt like I was with a stranger, and one who didn't like me too much.

I spent many sleepless nights wondering "how can I try so hard and she try so little?" She would make occasional token efforts, and at times seemed to relax a bit and smile, and that encouraged me to keep going, but I could never make any real progress.

Then the truth was revealed, she had been engaged in a fairly long EF with an OM who was also unhappy with his W. They started off as friends discussing their marital woes, and it evolved into an inappropriate EF. One lucky break I caught is that he cut it off and ended all contact to save his M, but when I discovered the situation and confronted W, I was asked for D.

I tried to start fresh, and only after OM was gone, after some period of grieving, did my W come back to the table and even start to consider working with me. It suddenly became clear that all my prior efforts were useless, as it was only deepening her pain, conflicted emotions, and resentment.

If at one point your M was very good and your W was engaged, and now you can get no engagement from her at all, I would be very suspicious that the R energy is being invested elsewhere, even if it's only "friendly" at this point. You will never force the truth out, but it may make you feel better about your frustrated efforts if you realize this is going on, and you can approach the situation differently.

When this happened, I felt horrible, I never knew I could hurt so badly. I am reading the same feelings in your posts, and I feel for you, it's the worst thing you can go through.

Hang in there -- my R is on the path to recovery, still hard every day. Great highs punctuated by terrible lows, but as others have said, you want to look back and remember that you left nothing on the table, that you used everything you had to try to save the M, and even a little bit you didn't know you had.

Best wishes, do it for you.

[NYCPeter]

Val - thanks for the response.

What can you do to change this dynamic?

To stop being jealous? I guess what everyone calls drop the rope - stop reacting to her and focus on myself. I'm having a real hard time with this - how do you stop reacting to other people's actions and behavior.

Re: the two boundaries - yes they are to protect me. After all her flat denials and blaming me for the breakdown of our relationship - I have fully accepted my part in the failure of our M. If she has consistently lied to me then there is no hope - I asked for honesty and openess and if it's not there, there is no hope.

Lets be honest here - Carlos is not texting her late at night to say have a nice day - he is persuing her and she has not stopped him. For her to say she is working on our R and to be texting with guys late at night is direspectful and yet another little lie - "Oh I only have the phone in the bedroom for the alarm", I call it BS. I feel like I am being treated like a doormat.

[NYCPeter]

I haven't journaled for a while.

Spent a great week with the girls, zoo, water park, riding bikes etc. Even managed to squeeze in a bit of golf. Back to reality and work on Tuesday.

Today the girls were at the lakehouse and my wife was working, I asked my wife if she wanted to have dinner tonight and we went to a local restaurant and had a great time - good laughs and enjoyed each other's company.

Now the backsliding - as we walk to the car, my wife says she is driving to the lakehouse tonight to be with the girls. I responded saying I thought we were spending the night together (she had previously mentioned picking up the girls in the morning). She said - she wasn't ready to spend the night alone in the house with me. I asked her if she felt threatened or intimidated - she said no, she's just not ready for that.
I told her I needed to see some effort from her - that spending a few hours with me would show me that she was making the effort and indicated that I was wanted at home.
She said she was sorry and drove off in the car - I know I was begging and being needy, but I really feel I am being used right now. That when it's convenient for me to be around thats fine, otherwise disregard what I may want.

Yeah I know - it's not about me, it's about her.