Got an apology from XH. Need advice now.

[dl443322]

I agree with Bea ( I usually do). I was giving you an opinion about wht I would have don, but, in the end, it matters not what anyone thinks. It is your life and you do know your situation best.

I also agree with her assessment of some of the types of MLCers. I could name a few more.

If you feel good with what you wrote, that is all that matters.

And please stay on the boards. You offer wonderful advice and observations.

[AntoniaB]

Beatrice, I think I remember you saying once that you wondered if he and I were actually growing apart before he "snapped" and if this whole thing were a LIFE crisis/marital crisis that just happened to have markers of MLC in his behavior from the snapping point.

I think that is something that I questioned myself for a long time and I was really afraid to say it out loud, because to me it was harder to say that we might not be right for each other any more than to hold on to this being all his MLC.

But if I am truly honest with myself, I have to say that it was not all rosy even the past 4 or 5 years pre-bomb. Just because we had a great romantic side and attraction, just because we had a lot of similar likes and dislikes and got along really well, didn't make us compatible. I lost so much of myself in that marriage towards the end and psychologically I was an anxious wreck about my life, felt I was split between 2 identities that couldn't be integrated, and I had health problems. I don't want to get specific, but for the 4 years prior to bomb drop, I had a bunch of symptoms from congenital reproductive problems, and I was in and out of doctors' offices a lot. I remember seeing my naturopath about the things and she said all my health issues were "2nd chakra" and that meant they were tied up in my relationships. She kept saying why won't these resolve, when you have such a great marriage.

I have not had any symptoms from those health problems from the first time he left me onward. My body is still the same. No surgeries. But no symptoms.

My anxieties are also markedly gone. The only anxiety I have now seems to be about whether I'm doing the right thing for me in my relationship with him.

Believe me today has been a real struggle, because I do feel like I put the final nail in the coffin on possibly reconciling with him with my response. There is a big part of me that wants to take it back by emailing him "look, you still did something horrible to me, but I'm choosing to not dwell on it anymore." It's like there are two sides to me and one is going PUSH Antonia, PUSH yourself past that need to respond and WALK AWAY from the attachment to him. If he reads it as he's off the hook and feels good about himself, then he's not worth you ever going back to anyway because he lacks empathy. Do what is best for you; best for you is not being with him unless or until he REALLY looks at himself and changes into the type of man you'd want to be with, and that may really not be possible because you were too different in the first place.

I feel very unsettled by what I did but I also feel like I had to do it. And the strangest thing has happened today. I feel like I'm not in my house anymore. As in, it has been tough for me to live here in our house at times. I have felt for over a year now that something was missing from it. Well something is really shifting here today. This energy is just, wow. I can feel it. I was standing in my yard and I looked back at my house and felt like I was in a very strange place. I felt like I was on vacation, in VA, where we always used to rent cabins together, but that I was at a house rental somewhere by myself. I felt like I didn't live here. Like no one I knew lived here. I walked back in, same thing. It's a very strange feeling that makes me simultaneously sad but also a little hopeful that maybe he's finally leaving it.

Oh wow. I just burst into tears. He's leaving. He's leaving this place and I'm detaching and it hurts, my god it hurts. But I have to do this. I have to let him go.

I have held on to him for so long and it wasn't doing me any good any more and I have to do this for me.

Thanks for reading all this with me today. I know I've posted a lot but this has been the most transformative day of my life, I think, that I actually had a part in, because I didn't have the power to make any choices on that other transformative day, but I had the power today, and I'm scared, but I took it.

I will continue to post. You are all my friends and I want to continue to help.

I love you all.

[tadpole1025]

(HUGS)

[beatrice]

Wow. I understand the emotions and the tears, as you finally let go of the idea of your marriage [I think] It all happened very quickly, although the build up and preparation were there.

From what you have said I do think your xh had a type of mid life crisis to which he chose not to respond. Even if a relationship isn't working, going off and having an affair, as we all agree, isn't the mature way out. And he is replicating his marriage behaviours again, as you have noticed.

The health issues are interesting. Our bodies are often wiser than our conscious minds.

FWIW I do not think you response did put the final nail in the coffin. It is always hard to tell what someone in MLC, who is typically hiding from themselves and their issues by distracting behaviours, will interpret anything. I agree with 25 who pointed out that he is falling back on his pattern of turning to you. Work isn't OK, and his new r isn't solving his problems . . . . .

As you know nothing we can say or do will help them on their journey. One day he might grow up. I don't think differences are a problem in a relationship - a cousin of mine once said that if two people think alike on everything, one of them isn't necessary!

Shared values are hugely important.

Please do not apologise for posting a lot. Being alongside someone who is really working through all of this is a privilege, not an imposition.

Remember to cherish the inner child here. She is likely to be feeling a bit scared.

[beatrice]

PS I am not sure that believing your h had a full blown MLC is the better option! I think we were immensely well suited and very compatible, but all the issues clouded his judgment. Hard to let go of a happy marriage too.

Interestingly my xh has been very ill subsequent to his leaving me. It started about two years post bomb, but he ignored it/was misdiagnosed for a further nine months [I have had conflicting stories here]. For him the OW was toxic, as I think he now recognises

I have also been ill, but nothing like as seriously, and it was diagnosed early on a routine check up. So bodies do talk to us.

Either way the end of a loving relationship is extremely hard. Recognising the end has its challenges too.

[AntoniaB]

Thanks Beatrice. Inner child is a complete wreck right now, yes. I slept maybe 2 hours last night. I realized that over the past several days I've had almost no sleep and lost 4 pounds as I've forgotten to eat.

I feel in many ways like I am going through the same level of trauma now as the "bomb drop" impact, although it has been entirely of my own making. The contact with him, the kindness to him...I didn't know that would lead to his "apology", of course, but it did, and that set off my response which was intended to help me to move on from the attachment to him. I have discovered for some time now that when I write things that are "difficult" to write/get out, that later they become manifested. So I try not to walk away from it if I get a gut feeling to say something a certain way because later I always see the wisdom in it.

It's kind of the whole acting "as if" idea but in words, I guess.

I feel like I have either ended my codependent attachment to him or at least made a big start in that, and there was no one who was going to do that for me and I don't think time was just going to take care of it--maybe for some it does, but for me, who was HUGELY codependent on him, no way. I had to tear myself away.

Everything around me feels different, the house and yard, especially. It wasn't just last night, it's now too. I feel like Alice. I stepped on the other side of the looking glass. It's like a mirror world. It's not hostile or anything, it just is. But he isn't here. It's just me.

So yeah, the inner child is pretty scared of that, but I have to follow through.

I have had a terrible time trying to write my book. Note to all: writing a 75-100k word analytical book of literary criticism is darn near impossible when you are in emotional turmoil as a result of your marriage ending ;-) I don't suggest it.

I think part of what led me to this point was the realization that my link to him was impeding me from doing what I need to do in my "new" life, and I felt threatened, and so I severed myself from the attachment.

You know we think that their rejection of us is the hardest thing we ever have to face, but knowing when to walk away and acting on that feeling might actually require more courage.

[beatrice]

Your posting prompted me to think about my own situation – three plus months of friendly emailing, and whether or not this was enabling my xh, whether it was good for me, what I wanted etc. And I was just on the point of posting to ask for advice when I got an email from xh saying he had tried to call and could we talk about middle son and his plans . . . ..

So I called him back and we talked for an hour, quite pleasantly. He is neither Mr MLC aks Alien, but neither is he the person who left.

We stopped after an hour, and agreed to consider what we had talked about and then he asked if he could call again. And I said OK, and am fine about it.

He is not through his crisis, but he isn't the mad spewing individual. He is trying to be normal, and pretending that none of this happened, at least that is how it feels. Except that it did happen.

I didn't feel upset. It was fine to talk, but I feel detached.

[dl443322]

Antonia, you are so in touch with your feelings, which is a wonderful thing.

I think the bomb and the letting go are both huge. Although I felt a lack of control on the first and a feeling of control on the second.
Either way, it is life changing as you are experiencing now.

I always say that we all walk this journey in our own way. My rule of thumb was always to act with dignity, to adhere to my moral compass and to do what was best for me at the time.

I knew if I followed those, I was making the right decision at the time.

I, too, made a conscience decision to let my xh go. It took a long time and great heartache, but, I knew that I loved him enough to let him go and I loved me enough to accept it.

I know you know that you will be ok. This is all part of the process. There will be days of sadness, but, you will begin to feel strong again.

Be kind to yourself, sweetie. You're an amazing person with such wonderful insight and heart.

[AntoniaB]

Thanks B. and B. Really helpful comments from both of you that I need to hear.

I had a naturopath appt. today; I haven't seen her in a year and so we spent nearly 2 hours going over everything. Here are some things she observed in case they help others. This will be long, but I figure giving you a lot of specifics might help if you're working through any issues I am:

1. The lack of being able to detach from the ex even after the divorce is all a part of still being co-dependent (and the ex's reaching back in bits and pieces reflects that this is still an issue for them). I think we often rationalize that it's a good thing because we see it as evidence of this lovely unbreakable connection between us, almost like we are revering this bond and putting it on a pedestal. BUT. When the thing that makes either of us reach out is because of NEED--as in, we MISS the person/their insights/their way of helping us when things are tough, we are actually still not able to stand on our own. We're still co-dependent, from afar. We reach out with expectations of any sort, even if the expectation is simply acknowledgement, then it's still codependence. She said not to romanticize this but to sort of see it as a problem that must be overcome to be our own people able to "exist" without the other.

2. When we say that we can't be in another relationship ever again/don't see ourselves in any other relationship romantically, we are also romanticizing/idealizing what we had in the marriage to such a degree that we are willingly closing ourselves off from links to other people (this would also be true if we held back in NON-romantic relationships for fear our trust would be broken). She said this practice, which so often happens to betrayed spouses, makes them suffer needlessly for the actions of their betrayer. She said that it also is at odds with all the things we do to GAL. Like, if we take all these steps to become new people with new lives, but then we hold back in our personal relationships, romantic or not, based on "trust" issues or fears that whatever we have with some person will "never measure up" to what we had in our marriages, then we are defying the principles of GALing and we are contradicting our own progress AND idealizing our pasts so much that we put them on a shelf and say, "that's it. I had that in my life. I'll never have it again and no WAY will I have better." She said the reverse is true, that likely we WILL have better relationships if we get rid of that idealization.

3. She said it is extremely important to not identify ourselves by this wound forever. As in, it is natural to gravitate to people when we're in the process of healing who have either gone through this or something similar, or people who we sense can help us through the process (I told her I just became friends with an older woman who initially reached out to me when her daughter, my girlfriend, told her I was going through a divorce. We have the divorce "in common" and seem to have an instant "bond" through that, although we also have other shared interests). She said it is important to start to seek out new connections with people NOT because they identify with our trauma but because they are just people with shared interests. As in, don't "become" your wound. Don't let it define you. Don't assume that you "are" your wound first and foremost. Yes, it was a part of your life that deeply changed you, but you're also YOU and there is a whole other you separate from it, and THAT is the person you eventually want out there making new friends and sharing with others.

4. Nourish, nourish, nourish. She said that every act that we make that is for ourselves and ourselves alone is part of this. So....you take the time to make yourself a lovely meal and enjoy it, that's nourishment, literally/figuratively. You take a walk through the woods alone, nourishment. You have a party and invite your friends and laugh, nourishment. Any act you make that is meant for you and NOT for your marriage/in memory of your marriage/with your ex or stbx in mind is part of self-care. EVERY act of self-care, she said, is a step away from co-dependence on another. The more you see that taking care of your own needs and yourself is entirely possible, the more you see that you do not need the ex in your life to be ok.

I think this is just another way of talking about GALing, but it helped me to see it from a different point of view. Like, I do a million things that fit this concept already and did them without thinking or with attaching negative thinking to them. I thought of them as "survival" techniques. As in, I mow my lawn, I take care of my yard, well, that's "survival" because I was "left" to "fend for myself." So I do the things AND THINK OF HIM WHEN I DO THEM. Or, I avoid making dinner as it reminds me that I am alone, so I don't eat well at all. If I do make dinner, I am conscious of the fact that I've just made dinner "for one", and I feel let down, because this is not what I want.

Well, she's saying look at it the opposite way. You mow your lawn because it is an act of removing the co-dependence from your life. It is an act of self-care. You make your dinner because you are CARING for yourself. In a way, you're saying "there is no one as important as me right now who needs to eat this meal. That's WHY I'm eating it alone."

5. The root of human suffering comes from one thing: being angry or sad or disappointed that things did not play out the way you wanted or planned. If you had PLANNED to be divorced or separated, you'd be thrilled with your life, right? But you didn't. In fact, this is probably one of the biggest things you feared would ever happen. You will cease to suffer if you can just stop being angry for things not going your way. Suffering is like a temper tantrum that never ends. And to go with what Beatrice mentioned about the inner child, it's like we're giving all the power to the inner child instead of the self-realized adult. We have to quiet the inner child.

I hope this has helped. I think my naturopath is very wise and she told me that she feels priveleged to watch all these transformations in my life, and says that as hard as this process is for all of us, that our ability to really look deeply and learn from it is a gift we should treasure. It makes us more passionate people who live more fully as a result.

[beatrice]

Antonia - I think much of what your naturopath said was interesting and true, but I do wonder about one or two of the things she said [and this could reflect my unwillingness to accept 'reality'].

I absolutely agree about not being identified by the wound. We do gravitate to those with similar situations - although as the divorce rate is around 50% finding non divorced friends is also a challenge! Also some married couples are nervous about being around a divorced person as if it were somehow catching - or is this just me?

Nourishing yourself is extremely important. Curiously enough for me not cooking, but eating delicious food is a form of self love. i cooked meals for a very long time for my family but being men they liked man food, and now I eat girl food when I am on my own. It is a luxury not to cook!

I have more reservations about the other areas, at least for me. I had very little contact with my xh when he was in lalaland, but now he is more normal, I enjoy our email exchanges because he is amusing and well informed and knows me well. He doesn't email to moan or get sympathy, and the discussion we had about our son was about dealing with him not any or our issues. Or maybe I am being defensive. Need to think about that one!

I think a part of any relationship is exactly that - helping each other through tough times as well as sharing the good times. It is when the dependency, rather than the mutual help and support, defines the relationship that it is a problem. Also there are tasks we do not like, and while sometimes neither partner likes them, we shared out the less pleasant tasks. Doing them all isn't fun. Who really likes doing their taxes?

Another part of a good relationship is missing the other person - like I said, I am missing my youngest son at the moment. I would be weird if I didn't, but I do get the point, not to the extent it incapacitates me . . .

The idealizing the relationship is the one I admit I struggle with. I felt at the time I was married as well as subsequently that we were unusually well suited and happy together. I liked the man my xh was very much - didn't idealise him then [although I did for a period post separation], and seldom meet anyone who I find as attractive and who makes me laugh as much, or who is as intelligent.

So it isn't that i don't see myself in a situation romantically, I haven't met anyone I want to be with, and being somewhat older than many here, recognise statistically it might not happen. But I would welcome it, I think, if it did.

The fifth point I think she is right about: we are sad, angry or disappointed when things do not go as we had planned. However, when our reasonable expectation are devastated, it takes a lot of adjustment. Like widowhood, or the death of a child, to take it away from abandonment or divorce. There is genuine loss, and it is part of being human that we suffer this. To simply say - well that didn't go as planned, let's move on is ludicrous - and I don't think for a moment she was saying it like that, but forming attachments, making plans together, emotional imtimacy, strong bonds, are all good things, and the loss of them is devastating. There could be a tendency to trivialise what is deeply felt and deeply held by us as humans. To say suffering is like a temper tantrum that never ends isn't the whole story. It helps to see it that way, but for me it does not say it all.

Having said that, I am going to cut and paste the post as I found it very stimulating and much of it absolutely spot one. Hope you didn't mind the criticisms. Like I said, they are probably as much about my issues as anything. I am still work in progress.
Thanks for sharing