Do what I can but still have questions 3

[soccerwife]

You guys are so insightful. I hope I get there some day.

Thanks for all the great discussion.

[soccerwife]

H is being unusually nice to me this evening. He offered to help me carry some things and did it even though I said I could get it myself. That is odd, he didn't do that kind of thing for me when we were getting along.

[25yearsmlc]

sw,

did I miss something? Are you saying that he is having an A for sure?

What do you base that on? I am not saying he is or isn't but what changed that makes you feel certain?

As for the kiss he's "taking from you"...man you have to change that Point of View soon. Our POV is our tool for getting through this.

You almost seem to want to view it as negatively as possible or take it as personally as possible. And I know you don't want to see it that way but dang...
You know better and you deserve better and you can do better.

You have to. So he won't kiss you good bye in the morning...his loss. But my take on it is that he's too depressed to muster up enough strength to make nice and act strong when he doesn't feel it...okay...

how is that about you? Hope you can see that It's not.

Yes by all means, take the ativan before the "session" if you aren't able to control your emotions yet. No shame in that.

First, no one in this type of sitch would find it smooth sailing...(I'd be loading up)

Second, you cannot afford to "lose it" in front of your h b/c he'll want to bolt. You must remain in control of your emotions around him. Lose the anger and lose the weeping stuff. No place for that now. (NOT in front of h!)

FG had a great point about how your h sees the home he's returning to at night. IDK what it's like for him, but Let me share something with you.

When my h began working after residency, he often worked later than he had to. That hurt my feelings and I took it personally. I really did.

I used to feel he was choosing to get the admiration of his colleagues over the companionship and admiration of his family.

Sometimes he worked extra for the money (which we didn't need, but he felt otherwise) and sometimes he did colleagues favors by taking their cases and sometimes he wanted the interesting case or maybe he just didn't want to come home...

I'm sure there were times he had good reasons and sometimes he had lousy reasons.

The problem is that I would get upset at him & I would have my arms crossed (figuratively and literally) when he came home. I was silently fuming when he'd come home and want an apology the second he walked thru the door.

I didn't feel I should be loving to him b/c that would reward him for being selfish. I thought I'd be sending him the wrong message...and you know, I was an idiot-- b/c my brilliant plan was failing...and YET---I kept doing it.

One thing that seemed important to me at the time

was that I was sure I was "right" and

therefore, h did not deserve a change in MY behavior...

(Remember how the DB book talks about the "cheeseless tunnels"? That's me! )

I kept at this "right" behavior. I changed none of it --and h changed none of his...so we changed nothing...brilliant!)

What if I had, instead, welcomed him to a warm loving home w/open arms and a loving heart? Might he have WANTED to come home more? What if I placed being happy over being "right"? And that assumes I was right...

(Well, It certainly could not have made things worse...)

Soccerwife, I am not saying what YOU are doing is either of the above

nor am I judging you.

Just letting you know that I've done some bone headed stubborn things
b/c I thought I was right, even when it was clear that my approach was not working. That was stupid.

As for the possible A he might tell you about...you do Not have to react then and there.

Why can't you say you need time to process all this? It comes as a shock needless to say...and it hurts so of course you have a lot to think about.

Leave it at that and get the heck out of the office if you fear you'll "lose it" in front of him.

it's important you maintain and keep it together. You want to make things work and
You cannot make it work if you are operating in fear AND OR
if you fuel his fears/negatives of you.


How's the IC going for you? Are y ou working on the anxiety issues?

You might have a "rescue me" pattern here. If someone doesn't stop you you will just go on and on and not regain control of yourself??

Is it almost a form of bullying or some other form of manipulation?
I'm just wondering.

I think your growth and self improvement will aid you in identifying what is going on and how to regain control of your life, and part of that is regaining control of YOU. Which is something only you can do.

Good luck

[soccerwife]

25, he has said that there is no A of any kind and I believe him, but so many people have been fooled and I certainly have doubts. For instance, he is planning another weekend at "parties" for this weekend; leaving me with the kids the entire holiday weekend. He did the same only two weeks ago. And, I would really love to know who he is texting for hrs at a time.

I would like to prepare myself for the worst if possible, but, of course, expect nothing.

About the goodbye kiss ritual, we literally have not missed a goodbye in 14 yrs, and I think that is why I take it personally. I have been thinking about the moment he places that last straw on the camel's back for months. No amount of preparing made me deal with it any differently, that is why I am so fearful of the A talk, God forbid it happen.

It turns out that I did allow him to be walk out without saying goodbye "properly" and the pain subsided in about 20 minutes and I was more fine with it than I thought I would be. I know it is his loss and that hopefully as soon as tomorrow morning, he is going to regret it. He did send a half-a'd apology in a txt this afternoon.

In regards to the IC, I think the meds are helping me smooth out the depression/anxiety. I don't like any of the side effects, but I will deal with them for now. I probably need to increase the dose of the anti-depression meds.

I don't know exactly what a "rescue me" pattern is, but just from the name, I am guessing you are right. I feel like I need someone to tell me that I am needed or important, show me some type of affection, be willing to go out of their way to help me in order to get past each new insult. I can regain control of myself without others but it seems to take a lot longer.

I have known for sometime that it probably wasn't healthy to be so dependent on others. I am not sure what that all stems from either. I don't think it is bullying or manipulation, I think it is low self esteem/depression, but I don't know for sure.

It could be that as a child I had NOBODY to share my emotions with. I was raised by my father who I love but didn't spend time with me and a step mother who was unloving and jealous of me. So when I met H and realized the benefits of leaning on someone, I took it to the other extreme.

I am certainly doing my best to make home a place H wants to be. I continue to AAI and do nice things for him; making his favorite meals, bragging him up in front of kids, listening ad nauseam if he decides to share his day, and touching him, like rubbing his feet, when he is in a good mood.

[soccerwife]

H was nice to me all evening and pursued a pleasant conversation with me about his day. I was so skeptical of his motives the whole time though, like I was just waiting for him to try to hurt me again. I even started to go through the emotion control process in my mind to prepare (feel the symptoms, determine the exact emotion, assess available reactions and their consequences, and take action to get outcome I want).

He did have a motive, and that was to ask me if I would mind if he spent 2 nights and 3 days at a "party" this weekend. Of course I mind that I will be a single parent again this weekend but I don't really have a choice, do I? So I replied with all I could muster, "no, I don't mind."

So now, I have to prepare myself for his return from another weekend acting like a frat boy. Each time he does this he comes home in the worst mood possible and that is always when he insists on S/D. Admittedly, I always encourage him to tell me what is on his mind that he is acting so rudely. Well, I certainly won't get sucked into that again, I have learned that lesson at least twice now, three times is a charm.

[25yearsmlc]

H was nice to me all evening and pursued a pleasant conversation with me about his day. I was so skeptical of his motives the whole time though, like I was just waiting for him to try to hurt me again. I even started to go through the emotion control process in my mind to prepare (feel the symptoms, determine the exact emotion, assess available reactions and their consequences, and take action to get outcome I want).

He did have a motive, and that was to ask me if I would mind if he spent 2 nights and 3 days at a "party" this weekend. Of course I mind that I will be a single parent again this weekend but I don't really have a choice, do I? So I replied with all I could muster, "no, I don't mind."

I know why you didn't tell him the truth. Who wants a fight now? OTOH who wants to be trapped in a m in which none of what they actually do want is allowed? I wonder if you can come up with a way of being clear without being angry.

Maybe even a bit funny but honest. Almost sarcastic but not quite snotty... Like saying what you said HERE...

"do I 'mind'? H, why would I 'mind'? You're leaving me alone with the kids for a holiday weekend, again, but we both know I am not allowed to say I mind and I am not allowed to say 'no' b/c then, really, what would YOU DO? I think you'd walk around with your sad puppy dog face all weekend or sulk 24/7

and then I'll be mistreated that way while we pretend you are being denied something you deserve AND then you'll come home in one of your crap moods so I lose either way b/c that's how you are setting it up...So sure, have a great time. REALLY, I DON'T MIND AT ALL...HAVE FUN DARLING!!..."


IDK
Just a thought. At least it'd be honest- and he'd know that you know that he knows...he's full of it.

So now, I have to prepare myself for his return from another weekend acting like a frat boy. Each time he does this he comes home in the worst mood possible and that is always when he insists on S/D. Admittedly, I always encourage him to tell me what is on his mind that he is acting so rudely. Well, I certainly won't get sucked into that again, I have learned that lesson at least twice now, three times is a charm.

"Sorry you are so angry. You must have had a crappy time again..."

"We had a blast while you were gone, and when you have a chance, we can talk about THAT"...

Soccer, can you get a sitter for one of the nights and go out with some peeps? Just create some mystery and get the kids to talk about THEIR evening with the sitter in front of h...and let him wonder. Period.

Otherwise, what are your GAL things now? And how are you feeling about the m in general, aside from this obnoxious stuff this weekend?

Also, when is this counselling session and did HE suggest it so he could "tell you something"? I suggest you prepare for whatever of course...but it's not necessarily going to be a clear affair he confesses to, but rather more lies and or, more vague "I want to be single but there's NO OW..."stories. In truth, there might not be a specific OW.

But maybe he wants to be single perhaps...and doesn't know how to say it b/c it sounds like saying "W, I want to be a selfish jerk. That's fine with you right??" In some ways that's more frustrating. He won't own the crap he's putting you through.

Be prepared for some vague "I want out, BUT I can't quite say it openly" type of stuff too...just a thought.

You sound mentally ready. I think where the head goes, the heart follows, eventually.

As you prepare yourself mentally, your heart will get stronger too.

I think you are stronger than you know. I'm Glad you are processing everything pretty darn bravely. I admire that. As far as the frat boy stuff, remember that I blew my h's homecomings...b/c I didn't think he deserved them.

Let's say I was "right" or at least that I was correct in saying h was selfish for working late those nights.

Okay...so now what? How do we respond to that? What would a 180 be here? Just wondering...

Can you welcome your h home from his weekend away, (acting as if he really did just go to some parties,) with the kids happily greeting him and his fav dinner?

It's an idea. IDK that I could do it

but I might enjoy seeing his face wanting to be a jerk but not being able to pull it off.

[b]
Soccer, what do You want now[?/b]? Do you know?

If you didn't have any kids, what would you be fighting for?

You think you Would still be here on this site? I am asking sincerely.

I want to know what, other than the kids presumed benefits, YOU are getting from this m?

And what you are hoping for?...

[soccerwife]

25, there is so much of your last post that I just don't know how to respond to, I guess I haven't thought about it.

Yes, I didn't tell him the truth about not wanting him to leave for the entire weekend because I guess I know he doesn't want to be here around me anyway and asking him to stay would just make him angry. The way you would respond to him is EXACTLY what I wanted to say, but sarcastic AND snoty, but I knew it would ruin the nice conversation we had.

I think it will be better to just allow him to go without letting him know how I feel and then I will greet him happily when he gets home so that the homecoming is better than the party. I will just ignore the crappy mood altogether and that will make the recovery from the weekend much smoother.

About MC, the counselor requested that H come the next time, so I came home and said that MC wants him there but I personally would rather he didn't go, especially if he didn't want to. After our argument, he sent me a txt that "I can go again I think if you want me to." Unfortunately, I forgot my DBing and txt him back that it would make me happy if he went. When I realized what I said was counterproductive, I txt him again the phone number of the MC and told him to make an appointment if he likes, put the ball in his court. I WILL NOT ask him if he scheduled an appt, I will just wait for him to approach me.

The way he said it sounded to me like he is willing to try, but you can't get emotion through a txt so I need to prepare for anything. I know that he thinks he wants out, he has pretty much said as much. But in the last few days he has said things like he doesn't know why what I want is more important than what he wants (I think he is basically conceeding that I am going to get what I want AGAIN). He is placing the "blame" that he is "required" to work on the M on me rather than owning the fact that he made the choice. I can play that game too, and thanks to DB, I am one step ahead of him... letting him set up the appt if he wants to go.

What do I want now? I want to have a better M than I had even in the beginning. I want to grow old together and I really want a 60th wedding anniversary. Right now, I get absolutely nothing from this M except pain. But that wasn't so even a year ago.

If we didn't have kids, would I be here now fighting for this M? I don't like to think in what if's because it is just so hard to tell but We likely would never have married. We would have went to separate colleges and probably would have split up while still dating. I HATE the thought of that. We have talked about that before and H feels the same way. Our kids, especially S13, need 2 parents all the time.

So, even if we do make it through this difficult time, what do we do during the next transition when the kids are gone? Another frightening thought. I guess I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

I know that I DO love him very much and he DOES still love me, he is just confused.

I have a lot more thinking to do.

[Forrest Gump]

"I have a lot more thinking to do."

I disagree. The one point you might have to think on is this..

Is an affair a deal breaker for you?

It can only be a yes or no answer.

Shooting from the hip I will tell you that there are very few times that there is NOT someone involved. It is almost non-existent around here. (DB.com) But in the scheme of things it only matters if it is a deal breaker. The WAS is responsible for their actions. You can hold them accountable. No where does DB tell you to allow yourself to get walked on.. yes, I mean that. Deciding if this is a deal breaker or not is the key. You have to understand the motives behind your decision. This is where the idea of thinking about things for 48 hours comes from.

Whatever your reasons are for wanting to stay and work on it..stick by them.

"I know that I DO love him very much and he DOES still love me, he is just confused."

You love the idea of who he was. This will drag you down if you are not careful. Treat this as a new relationship.. look at everyday as a chance to learn something new about your S. Make sure who you remember is still in there somewhere. I know I sound a bit like I am telling you to D.. but I am not. You just need a fresh perspective to look at things with. I always tell people this is your time to shine. That is what will draw people close to you.

[soccerwife]

An A is NOT a deal breaker for me. I completely understand why people have A's. In fact, I have considered it myself on many occasions, and once only a few months ago, before I did all this self exploration, it nearly happened. 10 yrs ago it probably would have been a deal breaker, but not now. I am not saying an A is excusable or that I wouldn't be hurt, but I am saying that I am owning some of the responsibility for him wanting someone new.

Motives for staying, even if there is an A: I simply do not believe in unnessesary D. We were meant to grow old together. Our kids need both parents. I would be partially responsible for the sitch and thus I must forgive myslef and H. it isn't my place to be his judge and his mistakes are not an insult to my character. I have no interest in starting a new relationship with anyone else at this time, I would rather continue to work on this relationship and ultimately get much better rewards.

You know, I recently accepted that he is NOT the same man I married. It took me a long time to accept that because I was still the same woman. Well, I have changed incredibly in the last couple months, and I am no longer the same person. I have grown in character. I now can see why this has to be looked at as a new relationship. We can never have that same niave, childlike infatuation again. Hopefully he can grow some too and we can love each other in a new way.

Just wondering, when only the LBS is the one going through self discovery and the marriage ends up repaired, the WAS may never actually figure out what went on? Does a DB'er ever tell the WAS what they went through to save the M? If they don't ever fully appreciate how the LBS felt or how things changed, aren't they more likely to repeat their own mistakes?

[soccerwife]

In a sense, I have started to forgive him for an A that probably didn't even happen.

Is that crazy? or smart?