Rick1963, I can honestly tell you that I'm not trying to use them to see their mother. What she is doing...well, I can't answer that. But I think you are on to something here. Just a half hour ago she text messaged me and asked me to pick up our D before she went to work. The thing is that her work is literally six blocks from my house. Her house is over 7 miles away. I told her that I was busy and that I figured she would drop the D off since her work is really close to my house. She responds with, "yes, I can do that...it'll be around 2:15".
With all that being said, I think some light bulbs are going off in my head. I've had some time to think about this whole situation. I've had to be honest with myself and had to answer some tough questions. MHL stated that it was possible that I was fearing a detachment from my wife because I'm afraid I'll lose her for good. I think that is a good assessment, BUT, I don't think it's because I'm worried my absence will make her think I don't love her anymore. I am being motivated by fear. I'm afraid of falling out of love with her. Let's be honest, she's done some pretty crappy things. I'm afraid that if I admit what she is done I will be angry and have to admit that I want this marriage to end too.
Don't get me wrong. I do love her and I do want to reconcile, but I don't want to be married the way we were married. I was unhappy, she was unhappy and the last couple of years sucked. IF we do get back together things have to be different. She is not the same woman I married, on the flip side, I'm not the same man. Truth is, I don't like this woman that she has turned into. It's really hard to admit that, and it makes me sick to even type that out...but it's true.
My family and I have this uncanny ability to cut people off and not care anymore. I think it's a crappy coping method and I generally do not practice it until some severs the relationship with me. This is what I have been feeling drawn to do...cut her off. I've been fighting it because, as I mentioned before, I don't want to fall out of love with her. The thing is...either way, this marriage is over. Even if things work out between us, THIS marriage has to be dead. It won't work otherwise. I have been on an emotional roller coaster. When she pulls this being nice crap it sends me into a tailspin. MHL is right, it is harder to deal with. When I fall, I notice I'm short with my kids. I'm frustrated and I'm not being the father that I want to be. The kids see me emotional and they know that I want her back. They know that I think this is unfair, but I love their mom very much. This type of behavior is no longer acceptable to me. I vow to not let my kids see me like that again. If I'm still holding on, they will continue to hold on. If I'm emotional, they will be riding the same emotional roller coaster that I am on. I cannot and will not allow this to happen. I have to lead my kids out of this emotional mess. Yeah, it is going to hurt, but if they see me being strong and in control, they will follow that. They too are going through the games that their mom is playing with their dad. NO MORE!!!
The bottom line is this....I am officially done. For my sanity sake, I have to be. It's not going to be easy, but it's over...I want it over and I'm moving on. Keep this in mind, I'm not giving up hope on reconciling. The thing is, if it is going to work then she has got to get her head out of her nether region. As I stated above, I believe God wants this to work...and if he does than he's going to have to do the work because I quit. She is going to have to do her part as well and I'm not going to wait around for her. I have no intention of dating anyone else or anything like that...I'm not that type of "done". I think you all know what I mean.
As for the kiddos. I'm not going to be answering any calls from my wife. If it's important enough she can text me. If my daughter call and wants to come home then I think I should go get her. She probably is looking at me for strength and sadly I am the only stable thing in her life right now. Later down the road, if she starts using method to control us then I will stop it. Until then, they need whatever comfort they can get. They are the ones hurting the most in this situation. They need to be my number one priority. As for talking to my W about them hurting...well, I'm done with that too. Even though she is acting, for a lack of a better term, stupid, it doesn't mean she is. I think everyone is right when they say that she knows what she is doing is wrong. It's up to her to decide to accept it or not. She doesn't need me to remind her. She certainly is not stupid.
One of my favorite songs says, "you got to make her know how it feels to miss you. let her know you're swapping sides. you're not the one with all the problems, no, you're the one with all the pride. so pick your head up boy and walk away, walk the coolest walk that you know. 'cause in a month or two she'll be calling...hang up the phone."
I did pretty good today. I had my little one until noon when i dropped her off at daycare. i picked up my oldest at 3 from school. we came home and finished off her homework, then she played with her friends until 6 when her mom came and picked her up.
I had everything ready for the second my wife pulled up. I got them put into the car. wife asked me if i had my youngest's pacii and blankie. i only had the paci and told my little princess that the she took the blankie to daycare earlier. my oldest was crying. i told them both that i love them, shut the door. I got in my car and drove away.
life is so much easier when i don't see the wife. when i do i feel like sh1t. I'm a little down in the dumps. I just took a long walk and now I'm going to read more in the DR book.
Tomorrow will be the first time since my wife dropped the bomb 8/3 that I will have a whole day to myself. No wife, no kids. I'm not sure what to expect. I know I need it though. I think i may shut my phone off, lock the door and sleep.
Thank you. Your post cleared up a lot of confusion. I think I had a couple of lightbulbs go off. I didn't realize that this isn't a game that she's playing...knowing that she's confused helps me see things much differently. I wasn't sure how to "go dark", I think I've been a bit cold. I never meant to be, just trying protect myself. I loved the comment you made about unconditional love toward my wife. I'm in this for the long haul.
I had the best day today. I did whatever I wanted and it felt great. I woke up and worked on the DR book...took a long nap (this emotional stuff drains you)...worked on the book some more...then treated myself to a movie. My wife said she didn't have any school clothes for my D so she wanted to come by and pick some up. I put the clothes in a bag, put them on my porch swing, sent a text telling my wife where the clothes were, and then went for a walk. My D lost a tooth today and was excited to show me, so they drove down to the track that I walk at to show me. It was so good to see them. My oldest even looked at me and told me that I was losing a lot of weight, which felt good to hear. My wife and I talked a little bit about the coats she bought the kids. Then they took off and I walked home. There's something to this taking care of yourself thing. This is the first time that I've seen my wife without feeling like crap afterward.
Seeing my kids was amazing tonight. I know there is nothing different seeing them tonight than last night...but, I think taking a day for myself has given me a little extra pep, if that makes sense.
Oh yeah, I was walking tonight and realized that I'm not even thinking about doing it...I just do it. I really enjoy it. I've been doing it for about a month and I feel great afterward. I've lost 30 lbs already. I hated walking before...well at least I thought I did. My point is that this is one of the changes that I've made that is starting to become a habit. That's a huge step for me. One small change can inspire us to make more changes...where have we heard that before?
What a great day! Now off to read some more of DR. Goodnight everyone.
As mentioned in my previous posts I'm trying to go dark. My last post spoke of how good it felt to do so. Soon after I made the post, I got a text message from my wife asking me to bring her $5 for my daughter who lost her tooth that night. Apparently, she forgot to get money when she was at the store and couldn't leave because the kids would be by themselves. Considering it was for my daughter I figured that it would be an okay thing to do. While driving I got another text asking if I would mind staying with the kids so she could go grab some milk at the store...which in the past has been code for her needing cigarettes...she said if I can't then that's okay. There is no way that I can stay in her apartment for that long....it's too soon. So, I didn't reply to the text and bought some milk and cigarettes. I snuck up to her apartment door and put the $5, milk and smokes in front of her door. Then I went to my car and text messaged her telling her where the items were located. I received a "THX" text back.
I was reading DR and got to the 'cheerleading' point of the book. Sadly, I've pointed out the negative rather than the positive in our marriage. Well, she is taking care of some insurance stuff for us. I got a notification saying that the insurance expires at the end of this month. I emailed her about it and she responded and explained the situation. I figured this would be a good time to cheer her on. So, I responded back with 'thank you for being on top of this...the girls couldn't live without you...good work." She responded with, "No problem...our daughter has an appointment Tuesday at 10". Which I thought was kind of humorous considering I made the appointment and emailed her about it last week.
Late that night she sent me a text asking me to come over because our D's guinea pig died and she's not sure what to do. I obliged and removed the dead animal from her apartment. She thanked me and apologized for asking me to come so late. This morning I checked the mail and saw she received a letter from a pulmonary doctor. I looked it up and it said that they deal with the lungs and such. So, I called her and asked her if she was okay...I explained that I saw who sent the letter and I wanted to see if she was okay...I told her she didn't have to tell me if she didn't want to. Turns out it's for something else. Before she hung up she told me that she was dropping by the house to get the mail (which she doesn't even do when she drops the kids off...I leave it in the mailbox for her and still have to hand it to her when the mailbox gets too full). Three minutes later she was at my house. She let the girls out of the car to see me. She hung out for a few minutes and talked with me while I was prepping the house's picket fence to paint. She asked me what I was doing and I told her I was prepping the fence to paint. She asked me if I was selling the house and I said that I probably was because I didn't need anything that big. She told me that black would be a good color, which I said I wasn't sure what I was going to paint it...I'm not good with that stuff.
Ten minutes later she calls me to tell me about a trampoline that someone was selling at a yard sale and asked if I would be interested in it. I generally never answer her calls, so she has just started text messaging me. This time she called. I told her I didn't have the cash on me right now. She said okay and we hung up.
What is my point? How do I go dark with all of this stuff coming up. I know that I shouldn't read anything into anything she does, and I'm trying not too. It's probably coincidence but last time I started going dark things like this kept coming up. I got suckered into it and we started talking a bit and she starts being nice. Like I mentioned earlier, she even thanked me this time...she didn't even thank me two weeks ago when I single-handedly loaded all her furniture into the moving van.
Again, I'm doing my best not to read into things...the only thing I can think is that she is not interested in the M because she was okay with me selling the house...which, by the way, I think I handled well. I believe I showed her that I was doing things that I never did before (by painting the fence) and then by saying I was thinking of selling it showed her that I was moving forward.
This is killing me. I'm miserable every time I get around her. I miss her so much and seeing her just intensifies that feeling so much more. The nightmares that I have, every night since she has left, are bad enough. So here are my questions:
-How do I stay dark when things like this keep happening? I felt that my daughter needed to wake up with $$ under her pillow and I knew she needed milk. So, I feel justified in doing that. I also feel that I did right by going to her place to dispose of the dead guinea pig. As far as the cigarettes go...well, I didn't want to stay in her apartment...maybe I could have gone w/out buying those for her.
-Again, I don't want to read anything into her actions. But, is this something that I should look at to see if I'm on the right track as far as my db'ing?
-MHL explained to me that MLCers do not play games, they usually with what they are feeling within the last five minutes...and, they are full of confusion and have terrible memory. That being said, is this her way of "chasing me" or playing both sides of the fence? Crap! I'm analyzing again...don't answer the question, okay you can...See, now I'm all confused
I've need my distance for now...emotions are running rampant...of course, she doesn't know that (giving myself a pat on the back).
I have not been here in a few days b/c I had a family member who was in the hospital, so I had to be there. I am behind on your thread, but from what I gather, you are doing the right things.
Quote:
How do I stay dark when things like this keep happening?
IMO, it is almost impossible to go dark if you intend to be a part of your children's lives.
Some tell the WAW to not contact them unless it is regarding the kids and is important.
Do you believe she's in MLC?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
First, I hope everything is going well for your family.
You know Sandi, I'm not sure if she's in MLC. Here's what I do know. I've been able to dive into DR and dissect it. I've realized a lot of things that I have done wrong. I see so many cycles that we have been in over the years. I'm the guy in the book that complains about everything. I try to fix everything. Instead of cheering her on for the good she's done, I've complained about more of things that I thought she could improve on. I'm going to be honest here...I am to blame for a lot of our problems. Hindsight is 20/20 and I see how I've been critical and negative for a long time. When she would pull away, I would accuse of her of having an affair, because she was gone all the time (to get away from the negative environment). She has had problems with anxiety and post-partem depression to the point she is on medication and sees a psychiatrist. She's 32 and has gained quite a bit of weight after the two kids (which I like a lot). I've always told her how beautiful she is and has never said anything negative about her appearance. Sadly, I didn't do much to let her know how beautiful she is on the inside. I don't want to take all responsibility for the downfall of our marriage, but I clearly see her side of things and she's right. That being said, I'm not sure if it's MLC or she's just had enough. I don't know if she's depressed from the stress or if the depression triggered a MLC. Let's just say she has a lot of the signs of MLC, but I can see where I have pushed her away to the point she would hang out with friends to get away from me. Does that make sense?
I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong here, but I've been trying to compliment her in a way that has nothing to do with me. For example, we have to renew our insurance. I was informed that it ended at the end of this month. I emailed her and asked her if this was really the case in which she told me that she just filed the paperwork. I text messaged her and told her "Okay, Thank you for staying on top of this. D1 and D2 would be lost without you...good work." She respond by saying, "No problem. D1 has an apt on Tuesday at 11 am". Which I responded with, "Thank you for the head's up :-)"
I've never been a social person, but I figured it was labor day so I would try something completely opposite of what I would normally do...I'm trying to GAL...So, I decided to throw a little party for my D's friends and their parents. Just me and a couple of parents chatting while the kids played. I cooked dinner for everyone, it was surprisingly fun. Well my daughter invited my wife to come over. Gasp, she actually did. My jaw dropped. Since she has left I have painted the living room, bought the girls new bunk beds, mounted our TV on the wall, added a new chair, bought new pots, pans, etc. I didn't have much of a choice as she took most of everything Point being, is that I have worked hard to move on with my life and that included painting, etc. When she walked in I could tell that she was uncomfortable and not sure how to act. This was the first time we've been together in front of other people, so it was weird. I played it cool and kept chatting with my guests (which she is friends with as well). I even joined along in conversations that she was a part of acting "as if" nothing happened. I got her a coke and invited her to eat some dinner. She complimented me on the meal and told everyone that I make killer ribs. Which I thought was nice. I took her awhile, but she finally got up to look at the girls' new bunk beds. She hung out in the kitchen a lot and then went to smoke outside with the other people there. We watched our kids dance and I personally had a good time. She asked me to take a couple links out of her new watch, which I complimented her on how nice the watch looked. As soon as people started to leave she bolted. She said, "I'm gonna go, I'll see you on Wednesday? Wait, no probably not" (I drop the kid off at school and the daycare so I don't see her). Wednesday also happens to be our 12th wedding anniversary. A couple hours after the party, I decided to try another neutral compliment. I texted, "Just wanted to thank you for coming by tonight. It meant a lot to the kids. I'm sure it was uncomfortable. Thanks for being brave for the girls' sake. You're a good mom and they are lucky to have you." I wasn't expecting a reply, but I got one that said "Thank you" which is an upgrade from the usual "Thx" I get.
I'm not trying to win her over and I certainly did not throw a party for her sake. I was going to have one whether she showed up or not. I don't necessarily think that I've gone too far with the compliments because she is responding back... I know that typing "thank you" compared to "thx" is not a big deal, but I look at it as if she took more effort in typing her response and it had a different feel than the "thx" texts. I'm not reading anything good or bad into these things. It is what it is and I'm not sure she knows what "it" is. I know I certainly don't.
Basically, I don't get the sense that she isn't being turned off by the compliments. However, I don't have not clue. That's why I directed this thread to you. You know more about her view than I do. I almost feel like I'm getting some indications that show I'm on the right track. I kind of feel like I've paid her some compliments, but I need to go dark as best as I can for now. Especially with our anniversary coming up on Wednesday and my birthday being Friday.
One last thing. I really feel like I've had an awakening as far as seeing her side of the spectrum. I see what I've done to harm the marriage. I want to tell her I'm sorry. Not to get her to come home (although that would be nice) but because I seriously feel horrible for how I've made her feel. I want to own up to my mistakes...whether we reconcile or not. When/is there a good time to apologize and is there a good method to do so (letter, email, phone call)?
Let's just say she has a lot of the signs of MLC, but I can see where I have pushed her away to the point she would hang out with friends to get away from me. Does that make sense?
Yes, it makes sense. The WAW syndrome is very much like MLC.
Quote:
One last thing. I really feel like I've had an awakening as far as seeing her side of the spectrum. I see what I've done to harm the marriage. I want to tell her I'm sorry. Not to get her to come home (although that would be nice) but because I seriously feel horrible for how I've made her feel. I want to own up to my mistakes...whether we reconcile or not. When/is there a good time to apologize and is there a good method to do so (letter, email, phone call)?
Have you not already talked with her and told her you were sorry?
If you have not apologized for these things you've mentioned, then my suggestion would be to put it in writing and send by email. That way, you can focus more on the words you want to say, and she will be able to read the email as many times as she wants.
Do not point out how you've changed. But you can tell her that this has opened your eyes to seeing your downfall in the M. Don't point out any of her faults, either.
After you send the email, then don't initiate any more contact. Do not expect her to reply with any more than, maybe, thanks. If she does reply with a thank you or appreciation......leave it alone! Do not send another word related to that apology. You are like some other men here on the board. You can't seem to stick to a few limited words when it comes to your WAW.
After you have apologized once, then don't do it again.
Oh, BTW, you did over-kill on the compliments. There were too many for one occasion and too wordy. Work on it.
What your WAW once craved from you.....can turn her cold now. You don't understand that, I'm sure. The LBH has to use a different way until she is free of the OP and ready to consider committing to the M.
As long as this OW is in the picture, nothing is going to "work" like you think. This OW is toxin waste! She is filling your W's emotional needs. As I've said before, she is building up to a PA, if it's not already. Your W must be very confused about her feelings and her connection with this OW. Two grown women don't lie together or put their head in the lap of the other in the fashion you described. IMO, this is more complicated than if it was another man, instead of the same sex. I'm sure your W thought they were "just friends"....in the beginning.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
You are like some other men here on the board. You can't seem to stick to a few limited words when it comes to your WAW.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
...and too wordy. Work on it.
Ah...your honesty. It's quite refreshing. So you think my novels posts are too wordy? Me? Wordy?
That is a trait that I need to work on.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Have you not already talked with her and told her you were sorry?
She was so eager to leave that she did not want to hear anything I had to say.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Oh, BTW, you did over-kill on the compliments. There were too many for one occasion
For the record, I did not use both of these compliments for one occasion. I spread them out throughout the week on two separate occasions. Still probably overkill though.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Two grown women don't lie together or put their head in the lap of the other in the fashion you described
Since I'm already splitting hairs here, I should clarify that she did not lay her head on the OW's lap...it was her shoulder. Still messed up though.
Thank you for your words of wisdom. I appreciate them.
Point being, is that I have worked hard to move on with my life and that included painting, etc. When she walked in I could tell that she was uncomfortable and not sure how to act. This was the first time we've been together in front of other people, so it was weird. I played it cool and kept chatting with my guests (which she is friends with as well). I even joined along in conversations that she was a part of acting "as if" nothing happened. I got her a coke and invited her to eat some dinner. She complimented me on the meal and told everyone that I make killer ribs. Which I thought was nice. I took her awhile, but she finally got up to look at the girls' new bunk beds. She hung out in the kitchen a lot and then went to smoke outside with the other people there. We watched our kids dance and I personally had a good time. She asked me to take a couple links out of her new watch, which I complimented her on how nice the watch looked. As soon as people started to leave she bolted. She said, "I'm gonna go, I'll see you on Wednesday? Wait, no probably not" (I drop the kid off at school and the daycare so I don't see her). Wednesday also happens to be our 12th wedding anniversary. A couple hours after the party, I decided to try another neutral compliment. I texted, "Just wanted to thank you for coming by tonight. It meant a lot to the kids. I'm sure it was uncomfortable. Thanks for being brave for the girls' sake. You're a good mom and they are lucky to have you." I wasn't expecting a reply, but I got one that said "Thank you" which is an upgrade from the usual "Thx" I get. 