Your description of feeling alone even when you are with your H, and cleaning endlessly, brings back such memories for me. I know how difficult it is not to feel stuck at this point, but do try to keep working on yourself. As long as I knew that I was growing, I did not feel so trapped by all these constraints.
I still think that one area to work on is where he makes so many choices for you. I know you feel that he's more comfortable doing this, but sometimes we can feel resentment that we have become stuck in a position that we don't quite understand why we feel so compelled to take. Also, it would help you to feel less as though you are drifting nowhere.
You're right: as long as he's still focusing on the OW, pitying himself for his "lost love," he can only compare you negatively to her. However, as long as you are still sometimes trying to have relationship talks, over-reacting and blowing up at times, you are giving him a reason to do so. I know it's hard, but try to think of him as the neighbour you have breezy chats with. I found it really helped me once I stopped expecting anything from him and stopped telling him anything about myself--plus he realized he'd lost something.
About moving--if you decide to do so, make sure you don't present it as being done because your D agrees. That would be a difficult burden for her to bear, particularly if things do not work out according to her secret hopes. Also, would you have a social network to fall back on if you move there?--your D should never have to feel any responsibility for "looking after" you. Also, don't present any move as "running away," as that could set a dangerous precedent. I know about running away, since I went to a particular graduate school to run away from family issues myself, and it can lead to a mindset of running away from difficult conversations, relationships, and other challenges.
From how you've described your D, she always sounded like a daddy's girl. Would it be possible to have her discuss any possible move with her counsellor?
I'm guessing any potential move would come soon, but surely not before school begins again? It might be very difficult for your D to move to a new school after the beginning of the school year. Also, although you're asking what other people think about a possible move, we're not you ... listen to your gut. Really take the time to make sure you have thought through and accepted all possible ramifications before you make any kind of decision.
just to clarify what I can and with the added info about your d,
I am NOT supportive of all marriages or marriage at "any cost" as I think Beatrice mentioned.
And there's a big downside to having tension in the house all the time. It teaches your d something...wacky and dysfunctional about m. Or men.
Her insight about more calm when it's just you two, is telling.
(And you can learn to cook better! Food isn't just fuel my friend, but a source of cultural learning and joy without gluttony...to do without, is like saying sex is only for making kids...kwim??)
Inertia is powerful Angel. But don't let that run your life. Isn't that part of how you two got here in the first place?
And btw, you don't have to both FEEL committed to the marriage to attend REtrovaille. They'll interview you on the phone and he'll have to end the R with OW if he is to go...but showing up doesn't require a committment.
Of the 25 couples in our class, I'd say at least 5 had partners who wanted out with certainty. They ALL returned for the follow up and now, 3 years later
19 or 20 of us are still married. Not bad, considering what brought many of them there in the first place.
Hope this helps,
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thank you my dear friends for giving my situation a lot of thought. I really appreciate it.
Beatrice, your sitch really makes me think of how much investment in terms of time one has to make with a person in MLC. I have started explaining MLC to my daughter, as I think we are both in this together. She likes psychology anyway and spends quite some time reading about the subject on the internet. It helps make her realize that the craziness is more pathologic, and we can both laugh and bitch about it but still manage to have compassion for H and his foibles.
25, your post has made me really sit down and explore my D's feelings about this.
It was a surprise for me when she mentioned moving as before she had separation anxiety and also she is such a daddy's girl (you're right, Cyrena). What I am finding out is that she is getting affected by the drama of her friends in school. I let her know that moving to another school will just thrust her into different drama as this is associated with age and hormones.
There is no rush for me to make a decision at this point, although I have started the process of applying for the job that has been discussed with me by the company representative before. Its a big company so it will be months before interviews are done, etc. I told my D that she just keep an open mind about her friends, and since school is starting tomorrow, we'll see about how she feels. If its bad, there are other schools in the area. Although i woulld really like her to graduate in this school, its a private school and she's the top student in her class, moving to a different school might change her status. She is willing to do this, as she knows that logically, it is hard. I also have the feeling that she just wants me to keep our options open, and to show that I take her seriously enough to be willing to explore a major life change.
With regards to her relationship with her dad, as she grows older she sees how they are growing apart, how he met her basic needs for consistency and discipline and food and security in the past but how at this point, she is quickly outgrowing that and needing a more complex communication than what he can give, especially with his MLC brain. She says they never talk about anything of substance anyways. But she is still more loving with him, gives him more attention that me, in a wordless form of assurance. She senses his needs and tries to fulfill them in her own way, and it warms my heart to see her shed her teenage attitude that she has with me when she is with him. She goes back to being the little girl that Daddy always loved and cherished.
Ooops, I hear the garage door, my H is home so I will sign off and continue later....
Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18 Bomb: 6/26/10 EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ??? 11/5/11 Retrouvaille Finally piecing.... Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
Cyrena, i always aim for the detachment as you describe it - breezy neighbor thing.... but I still backslide! I will start using that as a guideline for whether I will call him out on some behaviours.... if its not something I would get mad at a girlfriend for then I will zip my lips and let him be.
25, I know you better than believe that you would advocate saving a M at all costs! I think I will be able to judge if it is no longer salvageable, but the reason I am torn is because I know it still has a chance! But even if I think we are relatively calm, I guess what D12 indeed says is very telling.
H is not a monster; he is a depressed, guilty, conflicted person, whose choices are all wrong because of his messed up thought processes. He has enough of a good upbringing such that he tries to be a good father and does not want to break the family. But he is also selfish and immature and rebellious in his teenaged regression.
My insecurities are that:
1. There might be some truth in what he is saying - that our love never was that strong. He has a history of suppressing his feelings for me, and that may have come into play now.
2. He may never wake up from his MLC - his avoidant personality, his lack of insight are points against him.
3. I will have detached and suppressed my feelings so much that I will really and truly one day lose my love for him.
H lately seems more depressed than ever. The time for OW to go back to her home country is nearing - supposed to be thisOctober. I don't know if she managed to extend it, or if she passed her licensure exams for the US. I am guessing not.
H seems to be planning so many things to fill up his days this coming next few months that I am suspecting he knows he will be depressed. He has planned for us to go to NY on my Bday, which is a big surprise for me.... and then he plans to go hunting with a friend from our home country early in November. He also wants us to travel again (I hope we still can afford all this) in December.
He has been working so hard, has taken on a consultancy at my office aside from working his regular fulltime job. He comes and works with me and my boss around 2-3x a week, so he does have extra money. He seems to be obsessed with work, even working at home till midnight, as he can bill these hours to the company.
Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18 Bomb: 6/26/10 EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ??? 11/5/11 Retrouvaille Finally piecing.... Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
My H also became a workaholic during the latter part of his MLC. It seemed to be a desperate attempt to keep himself from dealing any more deeply with his depression. It did also give him something to cling to, a reason to keep going.
Your description of your D makes me wonder, does she have friends at her school to whom she's close, and who she'd miss if she moved away with you? Does she have lots of same-age companionship to balance out the stresses at home? I think you've done well to explain to her that middle & high school are full of drama and hormones, wherever you go--you can't escape them, so you have to learn how to deal with them.
If your D is reading about MLC on the internet, be aware that there is stuff on there about how daughters of men in MLC often end up as OWs, or even in MLC themselves, which may worry and confuse her. Will she discuss all her findings with you? Also, is she at all likely to find this site and recognize descriptions of your situation?
Hi Cyrena - the latter part of his MLC? dare I hope.....
No, too early, I think. The other night, I just had a dose of his MLCness.
D12 was down in the dumps, crying, the night before the first day of school.
I sort of got motivated to talk to H about D. I started by saying that D is now grwing older, and that her needs are chaning -what I posted in a previous post.
H reacted by blaming me! He said I had asked him not to talk to her! I could not for the life of me remember that, and he said it was because I said that it was good that D12 was confiding in me and I didn't want her to think I was breaking words said in confidence to me. This was during the time she had cut herself! And I never meant for him not to talk to her, just not to let her know he knew! I tried to explain....
Then he starts to tell me he will not listen to me anymore, and that he will parent his own way, that I should not meddle.
I almost lost it....I told him that this was not a blame game. That parenting together means we have to coordinate, or else we will have one confused child.
Even divorced couples have tolearn to co-parent. That basic ground rules have to be established.
He was being so illogical about things that I just realized just how deep he is in the tunnel.
Cyrena, thanks for your concern with my D. I will check her computer and make sure I guide her in understanding MLC. We did talk a little more about our moving, and have decided to try it out some more at home... and with the chool. She does have close friends, but because of all the drama, and being together in a tiny class of 30 something for the 9th year now, I think is taking its toll.
Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18 Bomb: 6/26/10 EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ??? 11/5/11 Retrouvaille Finally piecing.... Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
Oh shoot. Just have to share this here. Just heard through the grapevine that OW is trying to stay in the country longer - extending her course. Some of her friends are even trying to convince her to stay for good.
I know that its not just about her, but it prolongs the agony....
I know H had already psyched himself up for a difficult year, now its going to be longer.
Darn!
Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18 Bomb: 6/26/10 EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ??? 11/5/11 Retrouvaille Finally piecing.... Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
Just want to add my 0.02 I all of a sudden feel no need to control anymore,or snoop and confront. I have come to realize that if my H wants to run out on our marriage and our family and everything that we have built in the last 25 years it is HIM, that will come to realize what it is he has given up. Although the last couple of weeks I have noticed positive changes in H, I am not going to let my guard down. My new motto is "It is what is is" and I cant change a thing. It does make a hugh difference when you can finally admit that the only thing you can control is yourself. It has taken me my whole life to get it. I may fall down from time to time but I will always get back up!!!!! and I won't let anyone push me down again. The road for me has been long. But I'm finally getting it. I stand for my marriage and want it more than anything but if he walks,as much as it will hurt me and it will, I'll get back up.
I know this feels like a setback, Angel. I remember times when I wished the OW would move back to her home country/get a job in a more distant city/find someone else to latch onto (though how could I wish that on anyone?)/disappear from H's life in some other fashion.
After a while, I realized that if that happened, if it was her decision to end their R, I'd never know whether H really learned his lesson and chose me instead of her. If the choice was taken out of his hands but he still felt the same, he'd just end up replacing her with someone else. And in the end, with the C telling him he couldn't cake-eat forever, he did tell her he'd chosen his wife and family.
Try to think of this, not as the agony being prolonged, but as H being handed enough cake to see if he'll choke on it, or else realize he's had enough cake and wants a healthier option.... And the more you continue to work on yourself, the better you will look to him as an option.
Confused, you are right, glad that you got it too. As they say, this is a journey not just for our H's but also for us.
Cyrena, it is amazing how alike our sitches are, didn't realize your H's ex OW was also from outside the country.
You are so right that our H's have to handle this themselves. I remember when this all started, my H once told me that he knew the R with OW was doomed, but that he just has to find it out for himself. At the risk of hurting himself and everyone else.
About H and D12: I shared my concerns about D12, as she really had been acting depressed and wants to leave the school. H talked to her the other day, and D12 told me that H said that maybe we all have to seek professional help about this. I told D12 that of course her dad is concerned (thank goodness for that, after all I have been reading in this board about a-hole parents!) and that indeed, we may be needing it. Somehow though, it seemed to lift them both out of their funk. So D12 was cheerful yesterday and this AM, and so with H! I think sometimes it takes something happening to get the MLC'ers to pull their head out of their behind, to look at other people's lives outside of theirs. So now H has started talking to me again, even sometimes asking me what I just said when I was just mumbling to myself, and last night caught him staring at me and D12 when she sat on my lap to give me a hug. Although he did give me a couple of classic MLC behaviours last night; blaming me cause he couldn't find something he was looking for (which of course he had put away himself). I found the stuff, and told him to chill with a smile. He also booked me a flight for a convention (we are both attending) which I did not ask him to do as I was supposed to do it through my work account, and when I protested, he just told me "I did it already, we will fly together (which was NOT my intention, I wanted to go the next day) and that's that". Oh well. whatever. Control freak.
Anyways, I hope he will indeed choke on all this cake eating he is doing! No wonder no matter how hard he works out he can't get rid of those "love handles" :))
Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18 Bomb: 6/26/10 EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ??? 11/5/11 Retrouvaille Finally piecing.... Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
