New here, not new to this: Still not easy...

[Luckyclover]

Sorry everyone about the censored at the end of my first post. I just said that this s-u-c-k-s... but didn't think it would be considered improper.

Do you have kids? Have you read DB or DR?

Yup - we have DS who turned 5 in March and DD who turned 4 in July. They keep me very busy and I'm so glad that they are both starting kindergarten/pre-school respectively. With all the stress of depression, second seperation/marriage refining.. etc etc... I'll be glad to get them in the school system and give myself some more breathing room.

Yup - Currently reading Divorce Remedy. I've gotten up to Chapter 7 and have stopped there because I haven't given the techniques expressed in previous chapters time to marinate yet. I'm thinking, on top of posting here lots, I should reread the first few chapters again. It's amazing how much I'm learning about what not to do and BOOM! I forget it all as soon as H and I start having a conversation... then I realize how much back sliding I did.

WARNING-- THIS IS A LONG POST but it's not all from me...

Thank you so much for everything you've typed, 25years... I appreciate it all... and find I need to read, re-read and the re-read the "what not to do" rules again. I did have to frequently look up the abbreviations as I went along.

You couldn't bear to leave your house just one or two evenings a week --to spend time with your h? What's that about? Yes yes, I read about you being a "mousey homebody type"

but IDK what that means. You lack basic social skills? You have a phobia? Or ar these ways of saying You won't try?

I'm a stay at home mom and part time illustrator (neither of which are very profitable )and I've always been shy and a bit of a wallflower in large groupings. It's never been a bother for us before, even when I did go out with H and our friends... H would always joke about how his wife was the "quiet on in the corner with her sketchbook." I have, however, since the children came along... been getting out less and less. It didn't bother me because hanging out with friends always seemed like such a chore.. it didn't fufill me or fuel my tank... in fact, it takes the gas out of my tank. I can do it (socialize) and enjoy it but not too often and I always feel really tired afterwards. For H, it's just the opposite - being with others fuels his tank and energizes him. He loves to engage and he loves to help other people with their problems... yes, at a detriment to his own.. :S

I had been going out as often as time, money and schedules would allow with him and his new friends... and giving it my best, because I was happy to see him happy and I wanted to show him that I supported him in his new endeavors (he and the new friends have started a charity group that raises money for various children's organizations, I have been helping out and attending the events) and that I was happy to see him out of the house and doing sometime that fufilled him. I am now, *not* eager at all to go out with his new friends on their gigs because one of them is K, who is is very close to and the other is K's best friend.... H has confided to both that he thinks he and I make better friends and not so good a married couple. K even asked him "So, if you and your W split up... do you ever think we could start dating?" He told me that his answer to that was "No, no.. I don't ever want to get in a relationship again."

Yeah.... don't think I'll be going out to dinner again with that group anytime soon... Many of them know that we are having marriage problems, that H doesn't want to really be more than just a friend... etc. etc. I'd be a bright shade of red the entire time, feeling like the elephant in the room.. wanting to get swallowed up into a hole.

I've been making my own plans and stepping out a little bit with my own friends.

Thank you again for the 37 list of rules. I'm going to carry them in my wallet... because I *know* them but my emotions get the better of me and I willfully seem to forget them with conversation time with H comes up.

Wow Lucky. I admire your resolve to have to go through this a second time. I've only been through this once and metaphorically speaking it damn near killed me.

Thanks... at least I'm doing something admirable.

The way I see it, right now... I'm not a victim.. I'm a volunteer. I have no other men... no other life waiting for me in the wings... I have a marriage I am fully committed to. Whether or not the man I love is committed to it as well is moot. I can't control the way he feels. I know that I can pull the plug on our M if I need too... I just don't want to yet. Call me crazy.. (I do myself, many times) but I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet.

At present.. I'm exploring my options.. I'm willing to redefine our marriage and be "married friends". It's much preferable to having him as an XH (which might happen one day, I realize) or an adversary. This way.. for the time being at least... I have a father for my children and a friend around the house. Problem is.. I've been crying so much he can barely stand to be around me so he's not around the house too often.... I know I have a lot of "me work" to do. His work is his own. I inspired him by example before (he admired how I stood on my own two feet and how strong I became after our first seperation and he once called me "his rock") and I'd like to do so again... if I'm up to it.

Now he see's me as an over-loving, quivering, emotional, romantic mess... and it's sending him running. Sigh. *reads the 37 rules again...*

do you think he'll ever change? Can you see the two of you growing old together?

Do I think he'll change? Not sure... I can't really answer that. I do know that I'd like to change myself first. I don't really like where I am or the dependent mess I've become. I want him in my life.. I really do. Putting love aside (which I aim to try and do but it's hard) I like the guy.. I really do.

Can I see us growing old together? I used to. Now those pictures are fuzzy. I try and stop thinking about the future. It's unwritten and trying to write it is like planning a fairytale, only to get disappointed once you realize it's not all going to pull together the way you were hoping. I'm thinking much more short term.