I've got 54 days to receive a miracle.

[♪CS♪]

Yes, the no contact is working

Tad, when you say this. What do you mean?

[tadpole1025]

Thanks friends.

I probably will not send the letter.

Punkin, it wasn't a bad letter. It was one that spoke from my heart. It wasn't bashing her or anything. I just feel like I should do something for our anniversary. I guess not?

Country Song, when I say that the no contact is working, I mean it is working for me. It isn't helping our sitch at all, but it is making things easier for me because I usually just end up hurting after we do have contact.

I have been missing her terribly today and I don't know why. I have thought about her all day.

She seems to have withdrawn a little bit. She hasn't contacted any of our sons in days....kind of weird.

The new job is kicking my a$$ so, I will cut this short. I appreciate everyone's insight and advice. Please keep chiming in when you can.

Tad

[seeking answers]

Tad,

That letter would be viewed by your wife as pressure and your way of causing her guilt. It would not be received well.

I understand your need to acknowledge your anniversary. The first one apart is especially rough. To 'celebrate' my 28th anniversary, and the first one with out H, I gathered my kids together in a group hug and I thanked God for that day that led to the blessings of our children into my life. I was truly thankful for that day and my H, without whom, I wouldn't have my very precious gifts. Together we reaffirmed that we were a family even though one of us was missing, because of that day.

I hope this helps. It really did for me.

[25yearsmlc]

Tad,
idk what the letter said, but otherwise I tend to suggest for anniversaries, just a short note (roses if the w is on the fence) that says

"it's still worth remembering", which is always true, but esp true if there are kids from the m. The kids of the m are the focus at this stage, not the r itself.

Since she has filed and you say she doesn't feel you are "entitled" to ask for a delay, (IDK what that means. You are "entitled" to whatever your L and the judge and the law, say you are. Not up to her. )

But I can see what a 180 it would be for you to NOT reach out.

And how reaching out to her, in your sitch, would be a negative step. She would not react well to it. Don't fret about doing THAT ONE act or writing that ONE RIGHT paragraph that is perfectly worded that will turn this around....No one thing will do that. None of us can tell you what WILL work. All we can say is what tends NOT to work...

When my h felt he had completed his task, (or as I used to call it, his "secret mission",) it seemed to me that he lifted his head from the desk and looked up and all around and asked out loud to himself
"where is everybody? OH, at home 3000 miles away...I'm alone...OUCH b/c this sukks..."

I had a feeling it would happen after he felt he had reached his goal, which culminated in him taking the boards for yet another credential.

I was spot on. Literally 5 hours after he took the test he called me to ask if I was "ever" going to visit him...I had a great mc and a super DB coach, a true Godsend.

Eventually h said the things I needed to hear, (being the h I "deserved", etc) and that he was "literally begging" me to join him. So we began piecing. Visits and then I moved to join him "just for a year" and when I got up there with d14 (then 10) I had a lot of doubts and I am sure he wondered if it was going to be too much work or if I'd ever let it go and forgive and move on. The job itself, for h, was not what he had dreamed of. Mine was well paying but stressful. We knew we were going to return here but before we could exit as planned, my mil got cancer so the exit ended up being pretty graceful. No confrontation between h's secret mission heroes and the real world where Ponzi schemes are not appreciated...

But I also had major questions about why he wouldn't repeat his behavior if nothing had been learned, and if he was blowing it off til his next "misadventure." I was deeply hurt too, and angry and all that. But that was MY work, mostly. The anger was my problem and was helping NO ONE. it consumed me and so did the obsessing.

The biggest change in ME came before h's turn around. I am convinced it aided or triggered h's awakening.

I began to embrace my freedom (what choice did i have?) and saw a lot of upsides to my new life. Small ones at first but then big upsides. I came to truly believe I was going to be just fine, thank you AND that in the end, I was better off by a mile, than h.

Later, I realized it did not matter how h was doing. If he won the lottery that didn't ruin my life, And if he crashed a car, that did not make me happy. He was irrelevant to MY happiness in any direct way. IOW, their lives or misery cannot be an index for our happiness levels. Make sense?

From where I sit, you focus far too much energy on what your w is doing or thinking or said or might have felt. That hurts you in 2 ways. It's negative for sure. Lots of mind reading, negatively usually, and spiralling with worry. Even the title of this thread sounds anxious as heck, which I know you are. But the tone you set is the TONE of your days...the other reason its not good to focus on her is b/c that drains you of energy you could have spent on YOUR LIFE. To this day, my biggest regret for MY behavior, was how much time I wasted on trying to understand my h. "WHy?? WHY WHY WHY????" WEll I may not eveery understand it or get it..... H doesn't understand all his reasons for doing things so how would I?

And again, that focus on H instead of me, takes MY energy away from MY REAL WORK, which is MY LIFE...only I am in charge of my life but I AM in charge of it. Hope this gets through to you Tad.

You deserve to be happy again. Do you believe that? No seriously, do you believe you deserve to be happy?

Okay then...good.


Oh, as for reconciling--fyi--The biggest challenge for ME later on, was wondering about the damage done to the r's between my h and our kids.

To his credit, He has worked on repairing those r's.
And he has taken concrete steps to make the d's feel more included/important in his life. he calls and talks often and goes one on one for dinner with our elder d, per my suggestion.


We made a big breakthrough at Retrovaille in '08 after piecing for a year or so. (So we pieced for 16 months I think, then did Retrovaille and feel they ARE an excellent program.)

At Retrovaille I discovered h's deeply felt remorse about hurting our children and me. He told me a story with a metaphor (the program asked us each to use a metaphor) and h cried at one point and that's a rare thing for him. He really "got it' about all the pain HE caused and HE HURT THEN...and before, I'm sure.

I was not gleefully gloating for sure, Just felt so sad for him. We hugged and it was a pivotal moment for ME trusting him again. And for him to feel forgiven.

BTW, I told a gf that story/breaththrough for our m, and his R with our kids.. and she had witnessed our tribulations.

But she said "he cried and said that? Well I hope You told him that YOU WARNED HIM BUT HE WOULDN'T LISTEN, NO HE HAD TO GO TO HIS THING B/C HE DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR YOU AND HE'S A STUBBORN MAN AND DIDN'T CARE WHAT YOU SAID AND BLAH BLAH BLAH SPEW SPEW SPEW..."

WTH??

jesus, this was my neighbor telling me I should have said htat to my H when he was making a break through TO his family? Geez, talk about NOT forgiving...

I never saw that friend the same way again...

H & I shared some close moments at Retrovaille and got juiced up about our marriage and pretty much felt 'done' with piecing...but in reality marriage is always a work in progress so I am not sure if you're ever done with piecing. I prefer "restoring" b/c some folks here use the term "Piecing" to mean being in the same house thinking about deciding...

but it's not. Piecing is hard work but it sis work ONLY DONE when both parties agree to work on the marriage. Not just staying under the same roof but TRYING their hand at seriously working on their m with new tools. You get tools in the Piecing stage, and before and after...we got a lot at Retrovaille. IF you can get your w there someday, it'll help. (My h is not Catholic but he felt no pressure at all, (the retired priest was in the background but acted more like the guide for explaining the program. No religion there UNLESS you asked and the costs/fees are not preventers in this area. ) We made a donation to cover another couple in fact. Others did too I think.


Sorry Tad, but it sure Sounds like your w isn't anywhere close to returning. Not that she won't, but her task is divorcing. At least that's my guess.

If so, you have to release her to the task. Let her go. Detach. The faster you detach, the sooner she'll feel free and the sooner she'll be able to actually look around at her life and choices (instead of defending them)

I sense you are pursuing enough that any move or contact by you, will be seen as pursuit even if it's not.

I hope your job helps you continue to feel better about your life. How are your GAL things going? And what are your 180s vis a vis your w?

Her comment that you don't treat HER differently is telling. Don't gloss over that. It's very useful to know she sees you that way. She may actually believe it so you have to look at what she meant (without asking her of course.) At the time she makes a comment, you can ask for clarification then. But you can't call up later and make it obvious that you are still ruminating over a comment she made days or weeks earlier. Make sense?)


I never really got what your wife SAID as to why she wanted a divorce. I recall your perceptions but what did she SAY or what would she tell a stranger she met on the street about why she filed??

Her perceptions are all that matter now, IF you want to reach her.

Can you honestly say you Have fully, bravely assessed what her complaints were, and "owned" the ones you ought to own (that means changing those behaviors, not just admitting them)?

If you have done this personal work, which we all ought to do regardless of our marital status, and you are working on becoming the best Tad that you can be, you have to leave the results up to God.

Maybe that's part of your test here Tad...leaving results up to God and letting go of someone who needs to find their own way.

Good luck Tad. Be busy on your anniversary. Do something FUN. Go rent or See a comedy (no tragedies please)!

( )

[AJM]

Well said, 25. Well said.


AJ

[tadpole1025]

Hello everyone.

Thanks for the comments. I have an interesting (or atleast I think so) update, but I will respond to the comments first.

From what I can tell, everyone is saying that I should not even contact her on our anniversary. This will be tough. I'm afraid that she may take it wrong. I do like the suggestion from 25yearsmlc though. I know that I am supposed to be working on me, but my ultimate goal is still to save my marriage and I want to be very careful so I don't screw anything up. I've made enough mistakes already.

But I can see what a 180 it would be for you to NOT reach out.

This is where I am confused. If there is nothing we can do to help the MLCer right now and help them along their journey, what good is a 180 anyways?

From where I sit, you focus far too much energy on what your w is doing or thinking or said or might have felt. That hurts you in 2 ways. It's negative for sure. Lots of mind reading, negatively usually, and spiralling with worry.

I won't argue with this statement at all. I still feel like this whole thing is consuming me....especially the last few days. I just don't know why.

I sense you are pursuing enough that any move or contact by you, will be seen as pursuit even if it's not.

I agree 25, but I also feel like I am damned if I do and damned if I don't.

How are your GAL things going? And what are your 180s vis a vis your w?

I've been looking at some apartments to possibly rent once I get some money rolling in. I've also looked into taking some college courses after the first of the year. I've been doing my best to treat W so much better without bringing things up and really trying to be a friend. It is just so hard when she hardly talks to me. I also worry though that if I am nice and Mr. Friendly, that she may think that all of this is okay. It is NOT okay.

Her comment that you don't treat HER differently is telling. Don't gloss over that. It's very useful to know she sees you that way. She may actually believe it so you have to look at what she meant (without asking her of course.)

You know, I'm glad you brought this up because I've been thinking about this a lot. I hate to admit it, but she may be right about this. I've thought about our last few interactions and she's right....same old me....bringing things up....getting upset.....blah blah blah. I need to change this.

I never really got what your wife SAID as to why she wanted a divorce. I recall your perceptions but what did she SAY or what would she tell a stranger she met on the street about why she filed??

Well....I'll try to explain. She said that she loved me, but wasn't in love with me. She said that I chipped away at her love for so many years. Also said that she is done trying because she has been trying for years. (I didn't know this.) When she left, she TOLD me that she just wanted to seperate for a while to think about things. But......she says because I didn't give her the time and space she needed in December when she moved out, she decided to file. She is right about this too. I did all of the wrong things...begging, pleading, arguing, crying, contacting her all of the time....you name the mistake and I did it.

Can you honestly say you Have fully, bravely assessed what her complaints were, and "owned" the ones you ought to own (that means changing those behaviors, not just admitting them)?

I can't say it with 100% honesty, but I am getting there. I really am trying. I just hope that I didn't catch on too late.

*** NOW FOR THE UPDATE ***

The last 2 days have been really rough for me. For some reason, I've been thinking about W alot and wondering how to handle our anniversary. I've missed her terribly.

I've also thought that she has seemed slightly different lately, but I can't put my finger on exactly what it is. Wish I could.

This evening after I had been home from work for about 30 minutes, I get the following text from W:

W: "How is your job going?"

M: "It is kicking my a$$, but I like it. I would love to tell you about it sometime soon whenever we have the chance."

W: "What is wrong with now?"

M: "Too much via text."

W: "Can you not tell me about it now? You can call."

----SHE HASN'T EVEN WANTED TO TALK TO ME ON THE PHONE IN NEARLY A YEAR.----

M: "Okay. Give me a second."

So......I waited about ten minutes and then called her. We had a great conversation that lasted nearly an hour. (53 minutes to be exact.) We talked about my job, her job, she expressed concern for my knees and my bad shoulder, we talked about our boys, we joked about our "agreement" that says when she will pick up S16 on the weekends, we talked about her schooling, she told me how broke she was and how busy she has been. More importantly though, we did NOT talk about us. At the end of the conversation, I didn't tell her that I loved her even though I wanted to so badly. I simply thanked her for talking to me and told her that I would see her Sunday. I almost got the feeling that she wanted to say something, but she didn't.

It was almost like I was talking to the old W again. But again, I still worry that if I'm nice to her, she may get the impression that I am okay with things. I am NOT. I want to save my marriage.

After talking to her though, I felt happy, sad and confused. Honestly, I don't really know what to feel.

Please tell me what to do next.

Thanks for everything.

Tad

[AntoniaB]

I had similar lovely conversations with my XH in December, 6 or so months post-bomb. They were so good I was like, huh? Why are we not together? Then he just walked away. Again.

It might mean something. Chances are it does not. We've all seen this before.

It's lonely to be "them." They want to continue to be our BFFs. Cake-eating.

I think your best bet is to tell yourself every time you start thinking "what if this means..." to STOP. Visualize a stop sign or something. I forget who gave me that advice. You can't read her mind. You think you can, because you've known her all these years. But you can't read it anymore because she is so altered.

I'm not saying be negative. I'm saying be NEUTRAL.

As an aside, your knowing that it was 53 min. exactly and then relating it to us means you're really putting a lot of expectations on the whole thing.

As someone who overblows expectations ALL the time, try to curb that. You'll always have a letdown. When was the last time someone on this board had expectations that were MET? I don't remember it ever happening.

As everyone says, the first anniv. is really bad. Here's what I did, and I'll be brutally honest.

My XH did contact me and give me this whole "I shouldn't contact you because it will hurt you, but if I don't, that will hurt you, so I'm damned either way, so I'm contacting you to say I hope you have your family around you." (i.e. he knew he was the bad guy and that text was totally self-serving AND he said the bit about family around me as he knew I was suicidal when he left. I mean, seriously suicidal.).

Later when he did NOT receive a reply from me, he emailed my sister to ask if I had done anything destructive. He thought I was cutting my wrists. Seriously. She told him to leave me alone.

I found out about this months later.

When I got his text, I became so enraged, so white-hot angry AND bawling, that I turned on my XBOX 360, hooked up my mic stand, and I sang, at the top of my lungs, Foo Fighters "Best of You."

Then, the storm passed. There are all sorts of ways to weather it. If you do end up with contact, and it hurts you badly, you have the board, the alt, or music ;-) Use accordingly.

[AntoniaB]

So....I think my post came off as a mite bit negative. It's my mood more than anything (just found out that XH took OW to freaking SPAIN for vaca on my money....) but it is all true. Good luck. It's good that you're thinking ahead, and my thoughts are with you on that day :-)

[25yearsmlc]

Hello everyone.

Thanks for the comments. I have an interesting (or atleast I think so) update, but I will respond to the comments first.

From what I can tell, everyone is saying that I should not even contact her on our anniversary. This will be tough. I'm afraid that she may take it wrong. I do like the suggestion from 25yearsmlc though. I know that I am supposed to be working on me, but my ultimate goal is still to save my marriage

Do both! As you've been told countless times, saving yourself first IS NECESSARY to saving your m. You aren't your own man without her? What is it you will bring to the table like that? (not much) you are repeating the mistakes by forgetting this essentaial and basic premise.


and I want to be very careful so I don't screw anything up. I've made enough mistakes already.

But I can see what a 180 it would be for you to NOT reach out.

This is where I am confused. If there is nothing we can do to help the MLCer right now and help them along their journey, what good is a 180 anyways?

To be a better man...isn't that YOUR reason? Jesus, have all these changes been tactics?

From where I sit, you focus far too much energy on what your w is doing or thinking or said or might have felt. That hurts you in 2 ways. It's negative for sure. Lots of mind reading, negatively usually, and spiralling with worry.

I won't argue with this statement at all. I still feel like this whole thing is consuming me....especially the last few days. I just don't know why.

I sense you are pursuing enough that any move or contact by you, will be seen as pursuit even if it's not.

I agree 25, but I also feel like I am damned if I do and damned if I don't.

How are your GAL things going? And what are your 180s vis a vis your w?

I've been looking at some apartments to possibly rent once I get some money rolling in. I've also looked into taking some college courses after the first of the year. I've been doing my best to treat W so much better without bringing things up and really trying to be a friend. It is just so hard when she hardly talks to me.


I also worry though that if I am nice and Mr. Friendly, that she may think that all of this is okay. It is NOT okay.


That's^^^ just silly. it's an excuse you want to use so you can run after her some more. Stop it. She KNOWS it's not 'okay" with you b/c you've reminded her and the world with your pain and your neediness and clinging to her and obessing and talking about her to others and reading into every single thing she does...

So Using your logic, you should always mope around muttering angrily so SHE KNOWS about YOUR PAIN...how attractive.

But dear Lord, "what if...what if mopey pathetic Tad GAL???? What if he became a fun loving happy man to be around???

Oh how ugly. He must never have loved her at all---he must be OKAY with her being gone b/c he's only moped for many months but turns out he IS capable of a life or interest or hobby or some any happiness or laughter without her... Gee, it's So ugly to see happy strong confident men..

Um Do you see how absurd your "logic" is?

Stop justifying the pursuit.

You got a baby step yesterday. Be happy about that!


You know, I'm glad you brought that comment she made about me not treating HER different up ---. I've thought about our last few interactions and she's right....same old me....bringing things up....getting upset.....blah blah blah. I need to change this.

Then do NOT push yourself to be around her any time soon. You are not ready. This is more of the same old..you want to put a nail in the coffin?? Don't push this.

You think you have 53 days waiting for a miracle to save your m, as if there's No hope once a paper is signed...

but there'a s lot of permanent damage you can do in that 53 day time that could prevent a remarriage. (I have 2 family members who remarried their exes-I have a big family-it happens)



Well....I'll try to explain. She said that she loved me, but wasn't in love with me. She said that I chipped away at her love for so many years. ----When she left, she TOLD me that she just wanted to seperate for a while to think about things. But......she says because I didn't give her the time and space she needed in December when she moved out, she decided to file. She is right about this too. I did all of the wrong things...begging, pleading, arguing, crying, contacting her all of the time....you name the mistake and I did it.

See above comment. You seem to be itching to repeat a mistake. Back off.

Can you honestly say you Have fully, bravely assessed what her complaints were, and "owned" the ones you ought to own (that means changing those behaviors, not just admitting them)?

I can't say it with 100% honesty, but I am getting there.

*** NOW FOR THE UPDATE ***

The last 2 days have been really rough for me. For some reason, I've been thinking about W alot and wondering how to handle our anniversary. I've missed her terribly.

I've also thought that she has seemed slightly different lately, but I can't put my finger on exactly what it is. Wish I could.

Elsewhere you said she was distant and cold. Just noting...

This evening after I had been home from work for about 30 minutes, I get the following text from W:

W: "How is your job going?"

M: "It is kicking my a$$, but I like it[b]. I would love to tell you about it sometime soon whenever we have the chance."

I hate that you said this knowing it is pursuit. Weak...Or arrogant about DBing b/c no matter what # of times we say or who says it, you pursue b/c your vast experience has taught you...what? To act on your emotional needs when you have them??

The fact that she continued the conversation does NOT change my mind. It's like congratulating you on surviving your jump off the bridge w/o a chute...silly rookie mistake that didn't kill you.


W: "What is wrong with now?"

M: "Too much via text."

W: "Can you not tell me about it now? You can call."

----SHE HASN'T EVEN WANTED TO TALK TO ME ON THE PHONE IN NEARLY A YEAR.----

M: "Okay. Give me a second."[/b]

So......I waited about ten minutes and then called her. We had a great conversation that lasted nearly an hour. (53 minutes to be exact.) We talked about my job, her job, she expressed concern for my knees and my bad shoulder, we talked about our boys, we joked about our "agreement" that says when she will pick up S16 on the weekends, we talked about her schooling, she told me how broke she was and how busy she has been. More importantly though, we did NOT talk about us.

At the end of the conversation, I didn't tell her that I loved her even though I wanted to so badly. Thank God for that.

I simply thanked her for talking to me and told her that I would see her Sunday.
Why would you thank her? Can't you say "nice talking to you" and hang up? Why THANK her? Do you see that it sounds...sorry, but, grovelling up the scraps. Not real attractive. .

I almost got the feeling that she wanted to say something, but she didn't.

Sorry but maybe she wanted to say "don't read into this"...she had a pleasant conversation with you. I'm glad. Read nothing else into this...at all...for now.

It was almost like I was talking to the old W again. But again, I still worry that if I'm nice to her, she may get the impression that I am okay with things. I am NOT. I want to save my marriage.

After talking to her though, I felt happy, sad and confused. Honestly, I don't really know what to feel.

Please tell me what to do next.

What does that question even mean?
"Do" about what? The talk?

Tad, Do Nothing but GAL and live well, be a man only a fool would leave.

Thanks for everything.

Tad

Tad, it IS a positive, okay? But why can't you leave it at that, til if and when there is more?
She knows where you live and how to reach you...back off...savor the nice positive and go have a great weekend!

[Cadet]

But I can see what a 180 it would be for you to NOT reach out.

This is where I am confused. If there is nothing we can do to help the MLCer right now and help them along their journey, what good is a 180 anyways?

This is true we can not help them along their journey.

BUT we can SLOW the process down.
By NOT doing a 180 and NOT letting go and detaching, you are slowing down the process.

Is that what you want to do?