IMO, they are trying to relive their own youthfulness through others. Like HE just had a baby. Yes, I know the pain. My XH is listing OW's youngest son ( 11) as his 'son' on FB, and leaves off our two daughters entirely, as if they didn't exist. AND THEY SEE THIS SH!T. Then he texts unexpectedly and tries to make nice. Just saw this thread and loved the funny title. Then I read these posts and now I want to reach thru the computers, hug the kids and slap the MLCers in the face..i read Seekings too. WTF???
When h left us for 2 years, my mil never visited our d's (2 living at home, age 8 & 16, son was at college) or called on the phone to say hi or ask how they were doing, what with father gone and all. I want to repeat that for emphasis. For two years, my mil never called or visited her only grandchildren UNLESS her son happened to be visiting and then she'd call and speak mainly to HIM...
Maybe H minimized what he told her about the sitch, since she lived across the country. But she still absolutely ignored her only granddaughters.
Also, She missed the HS graduation of one, and college graduation of our son...b/c ( I SWEAR) she would not leave her DOGS with my bil. Not b/c he can't care for them, but b/c, as SHE told me, "I'll miss them too much, and you never know how long you have with these guys [dogs]".
Well that was true in a way b/c Her dogs outlived her. When she got cancer, d16 (then 19) and I went out for her first round of chemo. MIL never reached out to say "wish I'd known you more" to D19...and God knows there was no apology. She wasn't cognitively smart enough I think, to be aware and not brave enough to wonder...BUT When she died, our 2 oldest kids spoke at her funeral.
D19 said she realized that "even though my grandma didn't know me well, doesn't mean she didn't love me. And I can still learn about her and try to get to know her..." THIS STATEMENT SHOCKED MY H AND HIS BROTHER, (who also never once called or reached out to them when h was gone.) It never occurred to h or his family that our children would NOT feel loved by the neglect they got from her...I believe they honestly had no idea that our kids didn't feel loved..but how could they not know?
B/c they were/are Oblivious!!
Hey, I'm recon with my h and we're doing pretty darn well. But he still doesn't get that part of d's R with his family. (To be fair, h's parents were divorced long ago and his grumpy curmudgeony Marine Corps Vietnam Veteran father, has been far more involved and a better grandparent than MIL ever was...go figure)
I haven't talked about it b/c his mother's death hurts him obviously and talking about what a "distant" grandma she was will be seen as an attack (and it sort of would be, b/c I am still bugged by what I saw as terrible rejection).
My Point is that although h and his brother are not evil, they were clueless. I think it's worse with WAH's than it is for WAWs too but I haven't done a poll....
as for the guy with the OW's d having a baby pretending it's his grandchild AND ignoring his own d's birthday...you gotta wonder what he's going to do when his bio daughters get married or have kids. I wish I had his phone # b/c I'd call him up...and warn him of his empty future. And what were OW's ex h's doing? Were they coming to the hospital to remind the WAH that this isn't HIS kid or grandchild? HIS children are at their family home... This issue challenges me more than anything else, by far. We can forgive our spouses and work on restoring our m. But restoring the damage the WAS has done to their r's with the children is not up to us. All we can do is hope and pray and support the repair work.
These days, per my suggestion, h takes our oldest d out to dinner one on one. He calls her often, and they are improving their R. She was deeply wounded by his departure b/c she felt he did "not want to be a part of her life"...
He is trying to repair the r he has with her and I KNOW he has deep regrets about hurting her (we went to Retrovaille and I finally saw how sad he is about it. And he owned it too).
I don't know what to tell you about this behavior of the Fbs fools or the "fake grandfathers," and the AWOL men, except I hope to God they wake up before they are on their death beds...
For those of us with sons to raise, let's remember it's WE-- the mothers raising these future fathers...We have to raise them to be good fathers. If my son ever abandones HIS KIDS...he'll hear some words from me that he's never heard before...I will also SHOW UP for my grandchildren, no matter what.
God bless, comfort & strengthen all our children...
Extra hugs to your D today Seeking. It's tough learning survival tactics when you are that young, but I suppose better now than too late. What worries me, even with my D's being in their 20's, is that this will color their opinion of men, of marriage, of so many things. Self protection mode will kick in and the walls will go up. Walls are great, but it's lonely to live behind.
You have great judgement, Seeking. Take a long, and objective, if possible, look at your D and her attitudes, and decide how best to follow through. Here's hoping her old man comes through on her B'day! Cheers.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I was thinking about what you posted previously about your X being hurt that his children didn't acknowledge him on holidays, years later.
I do believe he has no idea how this has hurt D, but the sane part of me just can't wrap my head around it.
Something interesting about the ow's D. While on vacation back in April the ow's D took my D aside and told her that she felt what H and ow did was not right and was sorry for the pain that it caused my D.
That took some guts. The OW's D, is a heck of a decent girl. Is she the one who had the baby? I hope after all this crap, that They, the 2 d's, someday have a decent R together if they have to be in a blended schmended family schmamily...as for the fathers waking up. I can say that my h did but what if we had not reconciled?
When h was in his MLC and living 3000 miles away, he actually complained to me about our children not "ever calling" him...like he was "an outsider in his own family"...
I DID/COULD NOT give a DB answer to that. Instead, I gave a "brilliant retort" like "well DUH...You ARE an outsider...YOU LEFT. She's hurt"...H was clueless. He'd deny that he had "left" but said he was "just checking out a new job"...seriously...
So we reconciled and were in piecing, when we attended Retrovaille a few years back. (BTW, I think it's a great program).
On the last day of Retrovaille, h used a metaphor to say how he felt about the whole crisis in our m, or where we were headed, etc...The metaphor was a car crash. I was very surprised at what he said. And moved.
He said he felt "Like a well dressed man who had just wrecked the family car, The money's all gone. All the passengers in the car are on life support, and I don't know if they're going to live..." My h is a tall, well built & strong man. He's a war veteran. At the end of his "story", He began to sob. We hugged & I felt a deep sadness for and from him.
SO yes, some of them do know they have hurt their loved ones and they feel like crap about it. But I suspect it is only in a very safe place (like Retrovaille) in which they'll ever express their remorse. It's too frightening to face otherwise.
Geez, I have regrets as a parent and believe me, I can't dwell on them for long. it hurts! it shames me.
So I think they (WASs) can only take small bits and pieces of feedback at a time, about how their actions are perceived by their own children.
Having a suggestion for positive action (such as them taking the child out to lunch or dinner one on one, or to the park on a or a regularly scheduled call, is also helpful and may diffuse while helping. The fully absent parent or the one who makes plans and is a NO SHOW is the worst I guess. AWOL...deserters...
We used to have a neighbor with 2 kids who'd wait on their front steps for their div dad to come pick them up for his day...and it was Texas in the summer and they'd wait and wait outside i the triple digit weather for that jerk to Not show up.
I also wanted to slap their mom for making them wait outside so SHE would not have to see her ex AND so if he didn't show up, she could make the kids hate him more...never knew which parent was the worst b/c I started to believe that the mom knew the dad wasn't coming on some of those days, but she didn't tell the kids. She wanted them to feel as hurt by the dad's choice of OW, as she was...sickening, but in her head, it made sense.
Finally, if I were ever dating again, an essential ingredient of ANY Relationship I had, would be that the man is kind to my kids.
How can someone MARRY a person who isn't good to their children? Any man I dated who wasn't generous and kind to my children, would be voted off the island in a heartbeat.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thank you for your posts 25. Always find relevance through your experiences and wisdom.
Yes, the ow's D who spoke to my D was the one who had the baby. ow's children (4) are all grown up now but lived through a very messy divorce between their parents, when they were children.
ow definitely has issues herself and tries very hard to keep H from attending events in our kid's lives. (This was confirmed through text messages between ow and H) When she knows that H is with our Ds she constantly texts him. The D's report that H doesn't even bother to answer the texts anymore.
25, I'm with you. If I found someone again and they weren't good to my children, there's the door.
It is an index of extreme insecurity to want to keep someone away from their children. It is also a very nasty thing to do. And quite wrong of the WAS to allow it.
The harm that the WAS does to the child can be repaired, and the relationship restored, but it takes time and effort on the part of the WAS. I try and stay out of it, since my kids are grown, although I encourage them to be kind to their father. They did not deserve this.
it also gives the lie to the MLCers argument that it is about the marriage and us. If it were, they would treat their kids better.
My D13, unbeknownst to me, sent a text message last night to her Dad. She accused him of caring about the ow's D's baby more than he did about her. How she would only turn into a teenager once and that he did not even care enough to come and see her. She wanted nothing but a hug and a Happy Birthday wish from him.
Her reply from him came this morning...He told her that it was her fault because she didn't bother to ask him what was going on to make it so he couldn't come and see her??? He told her that she was only thinking about herself and that she was old enough to understand that there were things going on and other issues in the family besides her.
He was angry at her too because DIL got on FB this morning and let him have it on D13's behalf. He told her she didn't need to go around telling everyone about it. The only people D13 shared with was family because they came and stopped in for her b-day and seen that she was upset and asked about it. Of course everyone was angry with H. D13 had no idea that DIL had even said anything to H.
He went on to tell her that besides the baby being born he was getting his truck ready in case he had to go to NC and help out DIL and grandkids because of the hurricane. (SS is on deployment in Afghanistan)
D13 told him she had called and texted him numerous times yesterday and he never answered her. His answer to that was that he may have been in an area where he couldn't receive calls and that he was having trouble figuring out his new cell phone??? Now we all know that if your in an area that doesn't have signal that the calls and texts will come through when you're in an area that does have signal. H also told her he got called into work yesterday. (I know damn well he knows how to use the phones at work.)
At any rate I was in touch with SS today and he said that at this point it doesn't look like the hurricane was going to be a danger to his family.
The bottom line here was that H didn't leave for NC yesterday. He could have come and spent a few minutes with D.
I have tried to explain MLC to D13 in language that she can understand. Why he's done this is beyond her comprehension and to be frank, it's beyond mine too.
Well, does this qualify for Brook/Beatrice 'Book of Logic' according to MLCer's?
SA - sorry but this is classic MLC Replay behaviour.
Nothing is their responsibility, and they blame everyone and everything else. Blaming your daughter for his failure as a human being [let alone a father] is, sadly, par for the course.
He is defensive because deep down he knows he has, and is screwing up. But MLCers are fragile and cannot be wrong. Think 4 years old, plus the worst sort of immature teenage and you have it. 'It isn't fair, it wasn't me, you made me do it . . .' and so on. Very tough on your daughter and my heart goes out to her.
The important thing is that she understands it isn't about her, she isn't unlovable - just as we felt abadnoned and worthless, so do our kids. It is our task to help them to see their worth. If it diminishes her father this may, sadly be necessary, until she reaches a point at which she can fully understand the mental illness that is MLC. But right now her well being is paramount.
I remember all to well when my daughter turned 13 which was 2 weeks after she discovered that her mom was having a second affair right after Mom told her that the first was the biggest mistake she had ever made.
It sux trying to pick up the destruction the MLCer create.....As if YOUR pain is not enough. I know you hurt for your daughter.
Just try to be the very best Mom you can to her......she will never forget it.
Cheers
Formerly "missherlove"
Me49 XW49 M17 T19 S16 D20
Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free.
Well it seems like MLC H's solution to a problem is once again to buy something for the offended party.
H texted D13 and asked her what brand and color cell phone she wanted. She has her choice of the top two.
She asked him why he always wanted to buy her something when she was angry at him. He then called her and again gave her all the reasons why he couldn't see her on her b-day and preceded to tell her he was getting her the cell phone because she hadn't got much for her b-day. Huh? He'd just got done purchasing hundreds of dollars worth of clothes for her for her b-day.
So, it looks like D is getting a new and very expensive phone.
I did sit her down and talk about this with her. A very wise friend had already told me that D sees right through H and she was absolutely right. D told me she knew her Dad was doing this out of guilt.
H could have saved himself an awful lot of money by just apologizing to D and just making time to come and give her a hug, which is all she wanted in the first place. *Sigh*
I have been reading this thread and couldn't even reply cause i am so mad i wish I could come over and beat up your H, and all the men out there who are doing this. Including my H. Granted, mine is at home and does take care of D12, but still, he has hurt her and broken her trust and it will never be the same again. Even my friends ask me why D12 has changed so much, that she seems sad and depressed and clings to H all the time.
The expensive gifts - I see that too with my H. He used to be the miserly one - d and I used to kid each other about how cheap he was..... then when this all happened it was a big 180. Anything D asks for he gives. He just bought her a pair of hundred dollar designer jeans! I don't even have one like it. And he was so pissed that I bought D an iPhone 3GS. He said he was actually planning to give his iPhone 4 to her so he can get an iPhone 5!Its as though he is also competing with me to make sure D is on his side.
D knows it and she herself admitted that now she manipulates her dad becuase he is soo guilty that he will buy anything for her.
Good thing D is very much self aware. As I said, inspite of this all she feels that the two of us should go away. She knows her dad is crazy at this point. But we do speak a lot, I make a lot of effort to make her understand the real situation. I figure that hiding things is useless at this point; and if she had to figure things out herself, better if she had some guidance from the adult in this situation (me :), I guess. I do not bash her dad, I explain that he loves her but is one very confused person, along with OW. She can't understand why a single woman would go after a married man, I also told her that something is wrong with OW as well.
The thing about babies: I did notice my H also was acting gaga over a baby sometime ago... when his niece had one. He normally does not do that, so it was really so amusing to watch, even D12 said so - she's "what got into dad? he suddenly is into carrying babies?!@?!? I sort of was thinking along the lines of him fantasizing fatherhood again. Although he told me that he could not imagine himself having to go through those sleepless nights, and feedings, and sick kids again, I could see the longing in his eyes when he looked at the child. He even had pics taken of him carrying the baby (I guess he sent those to OW!). I remember feeling puky when I saw those.
I would echo what everyone says here - give an extra dose of love to your D. I know a mom cannot replace a dad in a D's heart, but we can only try.
Perhaps teach her also how to DB. My daughter is an instinctive DB'er, she doesn't pursue much. I think it works too.
Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18 Bomb: 6/26/10 EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ??? 11/5/11 Retrouvaille Finally piecing.... Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
For me, the worst part of H's MLC is the hurt it causes my children and then trying to help steer them through the path of destruction so they end up with a good moral foundation.
I have a question for those that have studied this or have been going through it for a long time.
Does the MLCer ever avoid something because they can't deal with the feelings that it creates or might create?
I question this because I have anger at my H for ignoring our D's b-day to celebrate the birth of ow's new grandson. H was obviously there the night ow's grandchild was born. He went back the next day (D's b-day)as one of the things he did that did not include coming to visit our D.
I just can't comprehend his looking at the ow's D and baby and not remember he was there 13 years ago with me having our youngest.
Maybe I'm just wanting a different way I could possibly view this instead of thinking that H is so far gone he could have cared less what his actions did to our D.
These are the kind of wounds for children that leave a lifetime scar.
BTW - D did get her very expensive cell phone. Not only that but he bought our other D the same phone. I will tell you how this all ended.
When the girl's came home and S24 found out what his Father had done, he was angry. He was very angry for what his Dad had done by ignoring his little sister's b-day. He was angrier still to think his Dad tried to buy her out. I did try talking to S about it, but he wasn't listening...
A little later D18 came down and asked me if I'd seen what S24 had posted on FB. Since I do not actively use my RL FB, I said no. She read it to me. It said something to the effect that it must be nice to have the money to try and buy someone because you are such a poor excuse for a human being and father. I am ashamed to carry your name. I hope there are better examples of what it is to be a man down your line. Since H and S are not connected, H couldn't see what S wrote until someone who was connected to both, commented on it. Of course they did, which was S's intention.
S hasn't talked to his Father since he left. S, as you can tell, is very hurt and angry at his Dad. I believe he has taken this harder than our other children. He is deeply sensitive and his Dad was the man he looked up to and wanted to be like.
I have tried to explain to S that I believe his Dad is going through MLC and he gets it because his Dad is so different now. I wish I could get him to go and talk with a professional as I believe he holds his anger as a shield.
