She's STILL running away!!!!

[25yearsmlc]

Really

I want you to step back and see things another way...big time. Not so much a 2 x 4 but a whole different way of seeing things, I hope...even if just for a few minutes....Bare with me.

First, 4 months of this is nothing. It FEELS like 4 years, we know.

But you have to realize that there's No way would she believe you've changed if she's only seen the "new you" for that long

and didn't you say you did NOT DB from the start? You tried some other confrontational ultimatum strategy that backfired?

IF SO, then your DB efforts are darn short lived and it's kinda nutty to think she'd get amnesia that fast, and forget the years of OTHER stuff all to find the new you completely believable...come on...

Wow! Thanks for the feedback.

Valeska, sometimes I need a 2X4 treatment. I appreciate the perspective and you are right. BGP=big girl panties….basically my W having to deal with the process and ramifications this D will have on us and our extended families.


This sounds a tad punitive or condescending to me, BUT I concede it may be merely you letting go or beginning to detach. Or other comments you made elsewhere are influencing me. IDK.

However, SHE IS dealing with the ramifications more than you know. Don't project onto her your fears. Don't mind read.

You have no idea what pain she experienced that brought her to the point of wanting emotional intimacy with another man,

but you DO know YOU have intimacy issues. That means there was a serious deficit in HER getting her needs met, for a long time.

Gloss over this at your peril.


Thank you MLC. I have definitely picked up my “fathering game” since W asked for D. I know they will need a lot of love as we proceed down this path. I have a new perspective about them and people’s happiness in general and I now have a lot more internal joy when I see theirs.

Incidentally, W asked me several weeks ago why I was spending more time with kids. I told her “I am simply trying to show them as much love as I can”. Her response was “I think I’m going to be sick”. She is hurt by the fact that I get more time with them since she works a lot of hours.


More mind reading??

My reaction isn't that she feels more guilt about her long hours (though she may resent you for not doing the same).

My reaction to her "make me sick" comment is that she is irritated that you were NOT spending much time with them before, so maybe it's ironic to her that you are doing this now and only b/c she's leaving. Why not before, when it mattered to her?

(I'm Saying SHE may be thinking this, not that it doesn't matter...)

In fact, it's small but consistent changes over time that are the most convincing. Keep it up.

Be careful not to sound like you are bragging about what you are doing b/c in her eyes, it's probably something you should have been doing all along. It's called parenting.


I love my kids dearly. My intimacy issues have hindered my ability to express it freely even to them.
See, ^^^^I think it's THIS change that may be irksome to her now. This has to have mattered to her a lot for a long time. I'm betting she told you (or sure thinks she did).

But you have to keep up the new you, b/c IF she comes to believe it's real and permanent...that's a biggie.

Plus, you have to work on YOUR intimacy issues anyway. It hinders YOUR own happiness, clearly.

IDK what you mean when you say it, but I'm gleaning from your posts that you were critical and negatively programmed, and that expressing love was NOT something you did much.

Guess what? If you don't express your love much, people don't feel much love from you either. Makes them lonely, angry, hurt, etc. All the things you now feel.

I am sure you’re right that my new found emotional attachment to them will become attractive to W.

Eventually, if she trusts it's real, yes she will. Who wouldn't?

I have processed the EA. I have told her I forgive her (even though she still doesn’t admit wrongdoing).

Why did you feel the need to tell her you forgave her? She didn't think she'd done anything wrong, so unless you were pointing out that you DO think she was wrong, Why didn't you keep it to yourself?

If someone approached you and said they forgave you for something you didn't believe was wrong, Do you see how preachy and judgemental that would sound? It would be like them reminding you that THEY believe you DID do something wrong...also

it might look like you expected something in return...either guilt, or
movement from her towards you?? There is a lot of info on forgiveness around here. It's not so much for them as it is for US...(when you get that, it'll be a real leap.)

Besides, in her eyes, she MAY feel you pushed her into the emotional arms of the OM due to your intimacy issues, causing her loneliness....



I no longer obsess about it…I did for several months. Sure I still think about the OM, but I am pretty convinced he is out of the picture. I am not going to “challenge” her. I realize where she was emotionally when it started. Doesn’t justify it but I understand it.

To her it probably does justify it. Since I don't know what you mean by "emotional affair" it's hard for me to say much. I do have 5 brothers and I work in a mostly male environment. If I didn't have male friends, I'd have darn few friends.

21 years ago, ONE male friend was a potential threat to my m, but I worked it out before it got too far. I saw a chaplain and a shrink and spoke to some pro marriage friends and a sister.

No one judged me. They knew how lonely I was in the marriage while h was in in med school for 4 years and then entered his internship in a new state with us. My loneliness wasn't new, it was unrelenting. I had not wanted to marry a physician and when we married, he wasn't one. Anyway, I never told my h about the potential OM. The only reason for telling him would be to relieve my guilt, and or to hurt him.

But If my h had found out I was "considering" an A, and then said he "forgave me", I probably would have divorced him.

TO ME, AT THE TIME...my h was extremely neglectful of our marriage, our children and my needs. He was also very irritable when he was home, which was very rare. Our first d was afraid of him, thought he was a stranger and "not nice"...which hurt h's feelings of course (but think about how it also hurt her and US!)

Rather than boring you with details or "proof" of my being "right"...which isn't relevant, the point is, that's how I saw it at the time. Completely rationalized it. I Felt h had left me, in effect, or pushed me away so much that when I met OM, who was very attentive and looked like Kevin Costner, heck yeah I felt justified. H pushed me into OM's arms...my real point here is that

Your wife's perspective is, at this point, all that matters. Learn from it.


Here is my “problem” in general with working the DB process. My main issue is patience. I am not a patient person by nature. I am very goal oriented. I like to see progress. I need to know that what I am doing is getting me to my goal.


Um, We know. Pretty much everyone here has the exact same perspective. NONE OF US feel "patient" with this.

And ALL of us want to know that what we are doing is working... OMG, seriously...of course we all want to KNOW that. But there are No guarantees...none. And what might be working might NOT be revealed to us in time, or ever.

Like the rest of us, You have to suck it up, and

be the best man you can be, even if you don't know the future or get a guaranteed return on earth...that's life.

Besides, Don't you have enough of your own personal work to do to keep yourself busy? You know, like the "intimacy problem" that you say your wife and kids felt...?

Do you best & Leave the results up to God.

With regards to DB’ing, I know it’s making me better personally. No question. My difficulty is making that the only goal…..it seems it’s only half my goal. The other half is saving my M.--- I know I can’t control her. I guess I’m frustrated she hasn’t acknowledged things. I need to be patient. I need to work on making my own growth my only goal.

^^^Correct...it's the only thing you control. Accept what IS. Stop trying to control results. We cannot. Try saying (and believing) The Serenity Prayer. And focus on your growth and only yours.

I am now more open about my feelings.
I openly accept alternative viewpoints as valid. I used to be very black and white.
I have started sharing details of my experiences of my parents D. Never really talked about it.
I have started talking more freely with her and not requiring her to ask several questions to get the “whole story”.
I am speaking confidently again.
I am volunteering at a local charity.
I am spending time with family that I sort of alienated in the past.
I am sharing thoughts of those experiences with her.
I am making great eye contact.
I am talking calmly almost all of the time.
I am listening to her and others.
I am telling my kids I love them much more.
I am being much more patient with them.
I am hugging them much more.
I am playing with them more.
I am spending a lot more quality time with them.
I am much more confident about myself.
I am shaving every day.
I am wearing better clothes around the house and in public.
I am working out a lot.
I am keeping my appearance up in general.
I am starting conversations about other people’s experiences/issue and showing true compassion for their situations.
I joined the YMCA which she wanted to do for over a year.
I am having phone conversations out in the open….used to leave the room.
I am more positive and upbeat in general.
I am consciously trying to avoid negative statements.
I am listening to music more.
I am watching much less TV.
I am paying her compliments about her appearance (not too frequently).
I am occasionally telling her I admire her strength for how she is dealing with this sitch while working so many hours at her stressful job.
I am complimenting the improvements she is making in her running.
I am asking frequent questions about the people in her life that are dealing with physical ailments.
I am acting “As If” as much as possible.
There are more……..

^^^Good stuff! One question/Suggestion--Are you doing an GAL activties that help you meet new people? People who don't know, and don't have to know, of your sitch? It helps YOU not obsess and makes you less stressed and more interesting...just overall a good goal.


Our boys are 5 and 7 so they will not know about the EA.

Well geez, I would hope not. Why would you tell them at any age if it's over?

To ME, an affair of ANY type (Let alone an "EA") is SO NOT something to share with the children. The only reason for it is to punish the wayward spouse and for the judgemental LBSer to try & gain an ally, and or make the kids feel betrayed too... and boy does that backfire...

We have explained why Mommy is sleeping in another room and why we are doing things separately with them but that is it.
what was the reason given?

She very simply doesn’t trust me. She doesn’t trust my changes. She things they are attempts to manipulate her into staying. She views everything I do or say with skepticism. She dissects everything I do to find negatives spins on them. Maybe consistency and time will fix this.


They are the ONLY things that will fix this. They are "IT"....

Consistent Actions + time = Change She Can Believe In...



I do not feel my pain is “special”. I know D is extremely traumatic for everyone involved. It is unbelievably painful. I do feel my situation is special as are others. I have read extensively and have seen numerous people on this site that have been dealing with their situations for a year or more. I have four months. I have a timeline. We are in D process. As we progress, it seems it will be more difficult to turn back. That’s one perspective I am dealing with.

Change your perspective. See my signature block for my timeline. And don't assume that even if a divorce goes thru, its all over. I have 2 family members who divorced only to remarry their former spouses a few years later. It happens. My uncle died of cancer a few years ago. If no reconciliation had occurred, he'd probably have died alone in a hospital, maybe with a pal from work or a nurse at his bedside, instead of his wife and children.

I need to minimize this one.

Yep.

She says she needs space and I am trying to give it to her as much as possible while living in the same house. She is anxious in my presence. I am sure she has an unbelievable amount of conflicting thoughts going through her head.

Then at least one goal of yours needs to be to make it easier for her to be around you. Lighten up. Rent some comedies. Laughter is a great bonder-- but don't look for immediate results. Don't expect anything....just BE....easier to be around.

With regards to the BGP’s….progressing with the D is difficult and stressful for anyone. This is especially so for my W. She is acting so out of character it is unbelievable. She is just quitting on us and I know she knows it. On a scale of 1 to 10 for issues people get divorced for, I would rate ours about a 1.

I guess SHE uses a different meter...and do you mean to suggest your "intimacy problem" is a 1? I'm betting it was a lot higher to her...LEARN from this...you have to.

She knows we haven’t tried “everything”. She is carrying tremendous guilt for breaking our family up. She is basing a lot of her positions and thoughts on assumptions about what I think about things and they simply are not reality.

You are doing the exact same thing^^^. All this mind reading and assumptions about HER assumptions. Stop it. Just own your stuff and stay in your sandbox.



I have told her that before I started DB’ing. She has told me she doesn’t know how she is going to explain it to the kids when they are older.
I’m not sure if it’s vindictive or not but progressing through this D is going to require increasing levels of strength from her (especially if I stay on track). I hope her resolve weakens but am preparing for that not to happen. She is learning more and more about what D means and it’s far reaching ramifications.

Not to quibble but let me reword this a little, okay? I hope she evolves and takes in the new information from YOUR growth and your changes...

So instead of making her "wrong" for wanting to end the m, you two both grow from this, and grow towards each other making a new healthier and happier marriage for all. The old one is dead. She wasn't happy and you weren't expressing love to her or your kids. Do you really want THAT m back?

I thank you TG. I am taking a wait and see approach to this. It is very difficult. Trust me, I have been humbled for the first time in my life. I picking myself up by the bootstraps and improving myself.

As I have stated above, I need patience more that anything right now. I am expecting reactions or acknowledgements from her that simply are not there….probably won’t be for a long while. I need to strengthen my resolve.

I THANK ALL OF YOU FOR HELPING ME AVOID ANOTHER SETBACK HERE!!! I don’t want any more and can’t afford any more.

We get it. And you have our prayers and positives sent your way. Good luck, hang in there.

((( )))