She's STILL running away!!!!

[25yearsmlc]

One other thought....isn't this a bit of a game??? Putting a happy face on when you are miserable. Not talking when it's really what you want to do.

If by games, you mean "tactics to obtain the resuling change in the OTHER person" rather than actual internal change in YOU (=becoming the best YOU that you can become,

and then leaving the results up to God/universe), then so be it.

It's Your loss if you see it that way...and the loss of your m in all likelihood....

Not asking my W where she was last night even though it eats away at me.

B/C this isn't about Your wife filling Your needs right now...

it's about YOU working on you, doing the 180s (which are???)

GAL - and becoming the

best man and husband and father you can.

I can tell you for sure that as a mother, I cannot imagine a woman being unmoved, by seeing the loving interaction of her children with their father.

I daresay it's at least an emotional turn on if not more...be the best dad you can be --NOT to get HER back, ***"tactic alert, tactic alert"****


but to be the best dad you can be, knowing your kids need you now more than ever. And yes, it's attractive as hell.


No longer challenging W on her EA even though it has consumed my thoughts for 8 months....

B/c you believe she'll think you forgot about it if you don't remind her of it eery chance you get AND that you still harbor resentment?

oh that...BTW, all this talk about reconciling is pointless if one forgets that if you want your spouse to return to you the KEY is

THEY have to be convinced that marriage to you would be better "from this day forward" than before...

What is different about you now than before? (Hence the 180s)...how are you contrasting the negative images she has or created, so she could justify leaving the marriage? THINK ABOUT THAT...

You must contrast those negatives with positives so she can see that her "data" about you is NOT REAL now...if you were late a lot, now be early for appointments. That's an easy unemotional trait

but I"m sure you can think of more personal or emotional issues or traits that you could do some 180s on, that would benefit you and your m and your w.

(regardless of whether her complaints were ever valid or partly or at all, IS NOT the point...point is demonstrating that NOW you are a better man--in fact--the best man for her and the kids....Get it? Lose the past or be bound to repeat it)

The more you bring up the EA or "challenge it", the more that two bad things will continue to happen.

First, challenging/questioning her choice you will force her to defend her choices so that will mainly cement those choices in her mind.

Hey We all have egos, no one likes being wrong or having it publicly made so (the fewer people who know, the better b/c it's easier for her to return and besides you have kids...what are their ages and genders?--I'm big believer in NOT telling the kids of an a, esp an EA which for many many people is not nearly the line crosser it is for some...and it's too murky for a kid an way too painful to hear re their mother...

It's just tempting to be Proved "right" by staying with OM and marrying him and blah blah blah...rather than coming crawling back on their knees, which isn't likely but IS what some very angry LBSers have suggested in the past (just a few!) AND

Second, you want to Keep the Road Home, Paved and Smooth...BUT

bringing up the EA does the opposite!
it's already going to be damn difficult for her to return home.

The more you bring up the EA THEN

the more she'll fear you throwing it in her face down the road, every time you fight
OR

hold it over her head like the sword of Damacles....

do you see how bad that is for both of you? And the kids?

IMHO--Bottom line is if you KNOW you cannot or will not let the EA go, at some point & with her work...

don't bother with all this effort.

(And while yes, yes we know you will have your "boundaries and expectations"--save them FOR LATER for the day we hope will come when she gives a hoot about what YOUR needs and Wants are b/c I"m guessing she feels she has done the bulk of the work in the marriage...and since you are the one posting here YOU are the one doing the work.

Our Dream Goal- It every LBSers hope that the changes they (the LBSer) have made are good ones they wanted to make anyhow AND that the spouse notices,
& believes your changes are real, & that if she comes back to you, the changes will remain permanent. People CHANGE. Every single day. WE make choices every day. Free will...

I get and appreciate the process on it's merits. I have bought into it or else I wouldn't be here. I just wonder if it can be tailored to fit individual situations in a more expeditious manner........maybe it can't.

Um yeah see, um NO...I mean sure we all have to try & see what works and then monitor...that's the crux of it.

"A more expeditious manner..." really? Your pain must be unique or special, whereas our situations are mild annoyances that we don't mind dragging on for years.

NOT SO...it sukks for all of us. But your controlling nature is not helping you accept what is...b/c it is reality! IF you are not able to do this approach, so be it. GIve her an ultimatum and be prepared for the worst answer you can get....oh, that wasn't you goal? Then stop going there.

For me, here's what DBing does at its' best.

Behaving in a way that improves a relationship is Doing what works to make that happen.

That is 'solution based therapy; a simple but radical concept forming the cofd that does NOT mandate we all know why we felt abandoned at age 9 or molested or have mommy issues or how we felt the first time etc etc...THOSE issues ARE important...but there are other places for those to be worked on.

HERE we simply want to be better partners by figuring out what helps our M's and doing more of those behaviors, and learning Not to do what hurts the Ms...even if we think we are "Right" to engage in a 'not working' behavior...

make sense?

DBing is not about being "right, damn it!", but about being happy. Ask yourself honestly, which is more important to you and whether that choice is revealed in your actions,...


I need to let my W wear her BGP's.

I don't know what you mean by this^^^ sentence.

IF you are in a position to set and enforce a boundary, so be it. Great...

IF you are reacting due to: anger, frustration, pride, a wounded ego,

and or desire to "teach her a lesson" or "show her the consquences of her actions" PLEASE KNOW

this is NOT coming from a place of love or light or, wisdom in you.

It sounds mostly punitive, or worse. And it will make you look vindictive and backfire.

So until I know specifically what you mean, that's all I can say. Well,

And good luck!!

[Truegritter]

easier for my W to just stroll through this D process with as little “resistance” as possible.

First of all, if she wants a D she is entitled to a D no matter how much resistance you decide to put yourself through.

Because...

Unfortunately, I also know that this is literally the first issue she has ever taken a stand on since we have known each other. Backing off her stance is viewed as weakness in her eyes. She is trying to prove her strength.

So how much of you challenging her was your old M? How much of your old M is you taking charge and bullying her?

I am not a sit back and wait guy. I am completely the opposite in fact.

Hmmm... something tells me that this might be the guy she is walking away from?

And your challenges are...more of the same.

How about trying to be the opposite of being just the opposite of a sit back and wait kinda guy?

This is a game and one you won't win IF you believe it IS a game.

If you are acting your changesjust as a tactic and don't mean them.

She will sniff you out like a drug dog at the Miami airport.

You have been getting good advice from these ladies here.

It is time for you to swallow a big helping of humility because you won't save your M without it.

Anyone not humbled by this tragedy and process is doomed to repeat it I am afraid.

Goal oriented? What part of your goals do YOU control?

[Reallyover]

Wow! Thanks for the feedback.

Valeska, sometimes I need a 2X4 treatment. I appreciate the perspective and you are right. BGP=big girl panties….basically my W having to deal with the process and ramifications this D will have on us and our extended families. Good luck to you my friend.

Thank you MLC. I have definitely picked up my “fathering game” since W asked for D. I know they will need a lot of love as we proceed down this path. I have a new perspective about them and people’s happiness in general and I now have a lot more internal joy when I see theirs.

Incidentally, W asked me several weeks ago why I was spending more time with kids. I told her “I am simply trying to show them as much love as I can”. Her response was “I think I’m going to be sick”. She is hurt by the fact that I get more time with them since she works a lot of hours. I love my kids dearly. My intimacy issues have hindered my ability to express it freely even to them. I am sure you’re right that my new found emotional attachment to them will become attractive to W.

I have processed the EA. I have told her I forgive her (even though she still doesn’t admit wrongdoing). I no longer obsess about it…I did for several months. Sure I still think about the OM, but I am pretty convinced he is out of the picture. I am not going to “challenge” her. I realize where she was emotionally when it started. Doesn’t justify it but I understand it.

Here is my “problem” in general with working the DB process. My main issue is patience. I am not a patient person by nature. I am very goal oriented. I like to see progress. I need to know that what I am doing is getting me to my goal. With regards to DB’ing, I know it’s making me better personally. No question. My difficulty is making that the only goal…..it seems it’s only half my goal. The other half is saving my M. I do see that my actions are resulting in less negatives from W but very few positives. I need to get better at seeing these things a small wins. I know I can’t control her. I guess I’m frustrated she hasn’t acknowledged things. I need to be patient. I need to work on making my own growth my only goal.

I am now more open about my feelings.
I openly accept alternative viewpoints as valid. I used to be very black and white.
I have started sharing details of my experiences of my parents D. Never really talked about it.
I have started talking more freely with her and not requiring her to ask several questions to get the “whole story”.
I am speaking confidently again.
I am volunteering at a local charity.
I am spending time with family that I sort of alienated in the past.
I am sharing thoughts of those experiences with her.
I am making great eye contact.
I am talking calmly almost all of the time.
I am listening to her and others.
I am telling my kids I love them much more.
I am being much more patient with them.
I am hugging them much more.
I am playing with them more.
I am spending a lot more quality time with them.
I am much more confident about myself.
I am shaving every day.
I am wearing better clothes around the house and in public.
I am working out a lot.
I am keeping my appearance up in general.
I am starting conversations about other people’s experiences/issue and showing true compassion for their situations.
I joined the YMCA which she wanted to do for over a year.
I am having phone conversations out in the open….used to leave the room.
I am more positive and upbeat in general.
I am consciously trying to avoid negative statements.
I am listening to music more.
I am watching much less TV.
I am paying her compliments about her appearance (not too frequently).
I am occasionally telling her I admire her strength for how she is dealing with this sitch while working so many hours at her stressful job.
I am complimenting the improvements she is making in her running.
I am asking frequent questions about the people in her life that are dealing with physical ailments.
I am acting “As If” as much as possible.
There are more……..

Our boys are 5 and 7 so they will not know about the EA. We have explained why Mommy is sleeping in another room and why we are doing things separately with them but that is it.

She very simply doesn’t trust me. She doesn’t trust my changes. She things they are attempts to manipulate her into staying. She views everything I do or say with skepticism. She dissects everything I do to find negatives spins on them. Maybe consistency and time will fix this.

I do not feel my pain is “special”. I know D is extremely traumatic for everyone involved. It is unbelievably painful. I do feel my situation is special as are others. I have read extensively and have seen numerous people on this site that have been dealing with their situations for a year or more. I have four months. I have a timeline. We are in D process. As we progress, it seems it will be more difficult to turn back. That’s one perspective I am dealing with. I need to minimize this one. The other perspective is that I need to keep DB’ing to make it more difficult for her to take the next step. She sees the new me, she just thinks it’s a sham. Maybe as the days tick by, she will start to trust it enough to back off the accelerator a little.

She says she needs space and I am trying to give it to her as much as possible while living in the same house. She is anxious in my presence. I am sure she has an unbelievable amount of conflicting thoughts going through her head.

With regards to the BGP’s….progressing with the D is difficult and stressful for anyone. This is especially so for my W. She is acting so out of character it is unbelievable. She is just quitting on us and I know she knows it. On a scale of 1 to 10 for issues people get divorced for, I would rate ours about a 1. She knows we haven’t tried “everything”. She is carrying tremendous guilt for breaking our family up. She is basing a lot of her positions and thoughts on assumptions about what I think about things and they simply are not reality. I have told her that before I started DB’ing. She has told me she doesn’t know how she is going to explain it to the kids when they are older. I’m not sure if it’s vindictive or not but progressing through this D is going to require increasing levels of strength from her (especially if I stay on track). I hope her resolve weakens but am preparing for that not to happen. She is learning more and more about what D means and it’s far reaching ramifications.

I thank you TG. I am taking a wait and see approach to this. It is very difficult. Trust me, I have been humbled for the first time in my life. I picking myself up by the bootstraps and improving myself.

As I have stated above, I need patience more that anything right now. I am expecting reactions or acknowledgements from her that simply are not there….probably won’t be for a long while. I need to strengthen my resolve.

I THANK ALL OF YOU FOR HELPING ME AVOID ANOTHER SETBACK HERE!!! I don’t want any more and can’t afford any more.

[aeolianchaos]

RO,

Hope you don't mind me interjecting a little bit. You have gotten some great advice from some pretty awesome women. And truegritter, too. Maybe I can add something to that with regards to the whole 'patience' thing.

process may make me feel better about myself but it also makes it easier for my W to just stroll through this D process with as little “resistance” as possible.

If it does, it does.

But you are also changing the dynamics of the relationship by doing this. Taking pressure onto yourself doesn't actually remove pressure from her. If anything, it takes away her opportunity to put it on you.

The impulses you are discussing aren't really instinctual - humans have very few real defined instincts. They are basically expressions of how you tend to interact with the world and a reflection of your beliefs on how you achieve what you want.

That said - still really hard to change operating procedures!

She has no one on her “side” that will ask her any critical questions. It seems to me that I am the only one that has the stones to do it. Maybe that’s not true. Maybe her family and friends are stronger advocates than I realize. Maybe they just have different styles and tactics.

I relate to this, R.O.. Its how I perceive things likely are with my WAW. I would go as far to say that a lot of people are saying "I can't make that decision for you" and she interprets it as being supportive. She might very well just avoid the people who disagree with her.

Ultimately, her choice is going to have to be intrinsically motivated. I think what Sandi is telling you is that you've got to trust that putting external motivations on her to change a big part of who she is right now, probably isn't going to work out so well.

It sounds like you are making some very sincere efforts to change your personal stuff and I am impressed a lot of those things. It took a lot for me to start shaving every day too.

I wonder if complementing her about dealing w/ the situation is such a good idea.. you say that you think your problems are about a 1 on a 1-10 scale. So do you really think she is showing strength and grace in what she is doing?

The thing about impatience is that there is usually an underlying current of anger that runs through it - anger that the situation is what it is, and not what you want it to be. This can get us messed up. We can really lose ourselves in the past and future - we become less capable of dealing with what is, right now.

I don't know if you've got any experience with it - but meditation can be really helpful with these things. It's free and all you have to do is breathe. Simple.

[Reallyover]

chaos thanks. I think there may be underlying anger. Her decision just seems so nonsensical to me. Way too extreme. It will hurt way too many people, all of whom I love more than anything in this world. Right now, I actually feel bad for my wife. She is going through hell. I fear that my feelings may skew towards anger and resentment.

I struggle with how to deal with her. I am trying to not start conversations about anything other that day to day things and the kids. A big part of our problems is that I didn't communicate with her. I didn't show her that I respected and appreciated what she did. I feel it's critical to try to do that now but not too much so it seems disingenuous. She definitely notices these words. Sometimes asks why I didn't share them in the past. Kind of walking a tight rope here.

Haven't tried meditation but I have done yoga a few times which is unbelievably out of character for me. It is relaxing.

I appreciate the input and plan to use it.

[25yearsmlc]

Really

I want you to step back and see things another way...big time. Not so much a 2 x 4 but a whole different way of seeing things, I hope...even if just for a few minutes....Bare with me.

First, 4 months of this is nothing. It FEELS like 4 years, we know.

But you have to realize that there's No way would she believe you've changed if she's only seen the "new you" for that long

and didn't you say you did NOT DB from the start? You tried some other confrontational ultimatum strategy that backfired?

IF SO, then your DB efforts are darn short lived and it's kinda nutty to think she'd get amnesia that fast, and forget the years of OTHER stuff all to find the new you completely believable...come on...

Wow! Thanks for the feedback.

Valeska, sometimes I need a 2X4 treatment. I appreciate the perspective and you are right. BGP=big girl panties….basically my W having to deal with the process and ramifications this D will have on us and our extended families.


This sounds a tad punitive or condescending to me, BUT I concede it may be merely you letting go or beginning to detach. Or other comments you made elsewhere are influencing me. IDK.

However, SHE IS dealing with the ramifications more than you know. Don't project onto her your fears. Don't mind read.

You have no idea what pain she experienced that brought her to the point of wanting emotional intimacy with another man,

but you DO know YOU have intimacy issues. That means there was a serious deficit in HER getting her needs met, for a long time.

Gloss over this at your peril.


Thank you MLC. I have definitely picked up my “fathering game” since W asked for D. I know they will need a lot of love as we proceed down this path. I have a new perspective about them and people’s happiness in general and I now have a lot more internal joy when I see theirs.

Incidentally, W asked me several weeks ago why I was spending more time with kids. I told her “I am simply trying to show them as much love as I can”. Her response was “I think I’m going to be sick”. She is hurt by the fact that I get more time with them since she works a lot of hours.


More mind reading??

My reaction isn't that she feels more guilt about her long hours (though she may resent you for not doing the same).

My reaction to her "make me sick" comment is that she is irritated that you were NOT spending much time with them before, so maybe it's ironic to her that you are doing this now and only b/c she's leaving. Why not before, when it mattered to her?

(I'm Saying SHE may be thinking this, not that it doesn't matter...)

In fact, it's small but consistent changes over time that are the most convincing. Keep it up.

Be careful not to sound like you are bragging about what you are doing b/c in her eyes, it's probably something you should have been doing all along. It's called parenting.


I love my kids dearly. My intimacy issues have hindered my ability to express it freely even to them.
See, ^^^^I think it's THIS change that may be irksome to her now. This has to have mattered to her a lot for a long time. I'm betting she told you (or sure thinks she did).

But you have to keep up the new you, b/c IF she comes to believe it's real and permanent...that's a biggie.

Plus, you have to work on YOUR intimacy issues anyway. It hinders YOUR own happiness, clearly.

IDK what you mean when you say it, but I'm gleaning from your posts that you were critical and negatively programmed, and that expressing love was NOT something you did much.

Guess what? If you don't express your love much, people don't feel much love from you either. Makes them lonely, angry, hurt, etc. All the things you now feel.

I am sure you’re right that my new found emotional attachment to them will become attractive to W.

Eventually, if she trusts it's real, yes she will. Who wouldn't?

I have processed the EA. I have told her I forgive her (even though she still doesn’t admit wrongdoing).

Why did you feel the need to tell her you forgave her? She didn't think she'd done anything wrong, so unless you were pointing out that you DO think she was wrong, Why didn't you keep it to yourself?

If someone approached you and said they forgave you for something you didn't believe was wrong, Do you see how preachy and judgemental that would sound? It would be like them reminding you that THEY believe you DID do something wrong...also

it might look like you expected something in return...either guilt, or
movement from her towards you?? There is a lot of info on forgiveness around here. It's not so much for them as it is for US...(when you get that, it'll be a real leap.)

Besides, in her eyes, she MAY feel you pushed her into the emotional arms of the OM due to your intimacy issues, causing her loneliness....



I no longer obsess about it…I did for several months. Sure I still think about the OM, but I am pretty convinced he is out of the picture. I am not going to “challenge” her. I realize where she was emotionally when it started. Doesn’t justify it but I understand it.

To her it probably does justify it. Since I don't know what you mean by "emotional affair" it's hard for me to say much. I do have 5 brothers and I work in a mostly male environment. If I didn't have male friends, I'd have darn few friends.

21 years ago, ONE male friend was a potential threat to my m, but I worked it out before it got too far. I saw a chaplain and a shrink and spoke to some pro marriage friends and a sister.

No one judged me. They knew how lonely I was in the marriage while h was in in med school for 4 years and then entered his internship in a new state with us. My loneliness wasn't new, it was unrelenting. I had not wanted to marry a physician and when we married, he wasn't one. Anyway, I never told my h about the potential OM. The only reason for telling him would be to relieve my guilt, and or to hurt him.

But If my h had found out I was "considering" an A, and then said he "forgave me", I probably would have divorced him.

TO ME, AT THE TIME...my h was extremely neglectful of our marriage, our children and my needs. He was also very irritable when he was home, which was very rare. Our first d was afraid of him, thought he was a stranger and "not nice"...which hurt h's feelings of course (but think about how it also hurt her and US!)

Rather than boring you with details or "proof" of my being "right"...which isn't relevant, the point is, that's how I saw it at the time. Completely rationalized it. I Felt h had left me, in effect, or pushed me away so much that when I met OM, who was very attentive and looked like Kevin Costner, heck yeah I felt justified. H pushed me into OM's arms...my real point here is that

Your wife's perspective is, at this point, all that matters. Learn from it.


Here is my “problem” in general with working the DB process. My main issue is patience. I am not a patient person by nature. I am very goal oriented. I like to see progress. I need to know that what I am doing is getting me to my goal.


Um, We know. Pretty much everyone here has the exact same perspective. NONE OF US feel "patient" with this.

And ALL of us want to know that what we are doing is working... OMG, seriously...of course we all want to KNOW that. But there are No guarantees...none. And what might be working might NOT be revealed to us in time, or ever.

Like the rest of us, You have to suck it up, and

be the best man you can be, even if you don't know the future or get a guaranteed return on earth...that's life.

Besides, Don't you have enough of your own personal work to do to keep yourself busy? You know, like the "intimacy problem" that you say your wife and kids felt...?

Do you best & Leave the results up to God.

With regards to DB’ing, I know it’s making me better personally. No question. My difficulty is making that the only goal…..it seems it’s only half my goal. The other half is saving my M.--- I know I can’t control her. I guess I’m frustrated she hasn’t acknowledged things. I need to be patient. I need to work on making my own growth my only goal.

^^^Correct...it's the only thing you control. Accept what IS. Stop trying to control results. We cannot. Try saying (and believing) The Serenity Prayer. And focus on your growth and only yours.

I am now more open about my feelings.
I openly accept alternative viewpoints as valid. I used to be very black and white.
I have started sharing details of my experiences of my parents D. Never really talked about it.
I have started talking more freely with her and not requiring her to ask several questions to get the “whole story”.
I am speaking confidently again.
I am volunteering at a local charity.
I am spending time with family that I sort of alienated in the past.
I am sharing thoughts of those experiences with her.
I am making great eye contact.
I am talking calmly almost all of the time.
I am listening to her and others.
I am telling my kids I love them much more.
I am being much more patient with them.
I am hugging them much more.
I am playing with them more.
I am spending a lot more quality time with them.
I am much more confident about myself.
I am shaving every day.
I am wearing better clothes around the house and in public.
I am working out a lot.
I am keeping my appearance up in general.
I am starting conversations about other people’s experiences/issue and showing true compassion for their situations.
I joined the YMCA which she wanted to do for over a year.
I am having phone conversations out in the open….used to leave the room.
I am more positive and upbeat in general.
I am consciously trying to avoid negative statements.
I am listening to music more.
I am watching much less TV.
I am paying her compliments about her appearance (not too frequently).
I am occasionally telling her I admire her strength for how she is dealing with this sitch while working so many hours at her stressful job.
I am complimenting the improvements she is making in her running.
I am asking frequent questions about the people in her life that are dealing with physical ailments.
I am acting “As If” as much as possible.
There are more……..

^^^Good stuff! One question/Suggestion--Are you doing an GAL activties that help you meet new people? People who don't know, and don't have to know, of your sitch? It helps YOU not obsess and makes you less stressed and more interesting...just overall a good goal.


Our boys are 5 and 7 so they will not know about the EA.

Well geez, I would hope not. Why would you tell them at any age if it's over?

To ME, an affair of ANY type (Let alone an "EA") is SO NOT something to share with the children. The only reason for it is to punish the wayward spouse and for the judgemental LBSer to try & gain an ally, and or make the kids feel betrayed too... and boy does that backfire...

We have explained why Mommy is sleeping in another room and why we are doing things separately with them but that is it.
what was the reason given?

She very simply doesn’t trust me. She doesn’t trust my changes. She things they are attempts to manipulate her into staying. She views everything I do or say with skepticism. She dissects everything I do to find negatives spins on them. Maybe consistency and time will fix this.


They are the ONLY things that will fix this. They are "IT"....

Consistent Actions + time = Change She Can Believe In...



I do not feel my pain is “special”. I know D is extremely traumatic for everyone involved. It is unbelievably painful. I do feel my situation is special as are others. I have read extensively and have seen numerous people on this site that have been dealing with their situations for a year or more. I have four months. I have a timeline. We are in D process. As we progress, it seems it will be more difficult to turn back. That’s one perspective I am dealing with.

Change your perspective. See my signature block for my timeline. And don't assume that even if a divorce goes thru, its all over. I have 2 family members who divorced only to remarry their former spouses a few years later. It happens. My uncle died of cancer a few years ago. If no reconciliation had occurred, he'd probably have died alone in a hospital, maybe with a pal from work or a nurse at his bedside, instead of his wife and children.

I need to minimize this one.

Yep.

She says she needs space and I am trying to give it to her as much as possible while living in the same house. She is anxious in my presence. I am sure she has an unbelievable amount of conflicting thoughts going through her head.

Then at least one goal of yours needs to be to make it easier for her to be around you. Lighten up. Rent some comedies. Laughter is a great bonder-- but don't look for immediate results. Don't expect anything....just BE....easier to be around.

With regards to the BGP’s….progressing with the D is difficult and stressful for anyone. This is especially so for my W. She is acting so out of character it is unbelievable. She is just quitting on us and I know she knows it. On a scale of 1 to 10 for issues people get divorced for, I would rate ours about a 1.

I guess SHE uses a different meter...and do you mean to suggest your "intimacy problem" is a 1? I'm betting it was a lot higher to her...LEARN from this...you have to.

She knows we haven’t tried “everything”. She is carrying tremendous guilt for breaking our family up. She is basing a lot of her positions and thoughts on assumptions about what I think about things and they simply are not reality.

You are doing the exact same thing^^^. All this mind reading and assumptions about HER assumptions. Stop it. Just own your stuff and stay in your sandbox.



I have told her that before I started DB’ing. She has told me she doesn’t know how she is going to explain it to the kids when they are older.
I’m not sure if it’s vindictive or not but progressing through this D is going to require increasing levels of strength from her (especially if I stay on track). I hope her resolve weakens but am preparing for that not to happen. She is learning more and more about what D means and it’s far reaching ramifications.

Not to quibble but let me reword this a little, okay? I hope she evolves and takes in the new information from YOUR growth and your changes...

So instead of making her "wrong" for wanting to end the m, you two both grow from this, and grow towards each other making a new healthier and happier marriage for all. The old one is dead. She wasn't happy and you weren't expressing love to her or your kids. Do you really want THAT m back?

I thank you TG. I am taking a wait and see approach to this. It is very difficult. Trust me, I have been humbled for the first time in my life. I picking myself up by the bootstraps and improving myself.

As I have stated above, I need patience more that anything right now. I am expecting reactions or acknowledgements from her that simply are not there….probably won’t be for a long while. I need to strengthen my resolve.

I THANK ALL OF YOU FOR HELPING ME AVOID ANOTHER SETBACK HERE!!! I don’t want any more and can’t afford any more.

We get it. And you have our prayers and positives sent your way. Good luck, hang in there.

((( )))

[Reallyover]

Thanks MLC. Read it and am digesting it. literally running out the door so no real time to respond. going away for weekend with Dad and Brother. Good time to do some thinking.

[Reallyover]

Had a great weekend. Good bonding time with Dad and Brother. Minimal contact with W….just a few texts about kids and the house. She did send me one asking if I was ok and having fun, asking me to be safe because the kids need their Dad. I did think about her a lot though….but also thought about life without her just as much.

MLC, I know I am at the front edge of this thing. I need to be vigilant and avoid any setbacks at all cost. I think I am getting more capable of this as the days tick by.

I do think I try to mind read somewhat, but a lot of my thoughts are reactions to things that she has told me straight out. She is not entirely forthright right now but she is steadfastly honest. Occasionally we will have a talk and she will divulge her thoughts to me. I do understand that she realizes what she is doing to our family and I need to fight my instincts to keep reminding her of it. Only upsets her and makes me the target/cause of negative feelings.

On the fathering front, I have been a good father. She would tell you that herself. I have taken it up a notch though recently. Instead of letting the kids play by themselves, I now interact directly with them more. I spend more time talking to them not just giving them orders. I have been taking them more places (camping, beach, museums, etc.). I don’t brag about this as I know it upsets her. I am working for myself right now so my schedule is much more flexible than hers and she feels slighted by my ability to spend time with them. It’s during one of these discussions that I told her I am trying to spend as much time with and show them as much love as possible. It seems to me that her thoughts regarding this are very selfish. I would hope she’d see that it’s best for the kids. She’s keeping score on it.

I have had deep set emotional issues my entire life. I now see that there are probably two reasons why. First, my parents divorce when I was 11 or so. Secondly, I grew up in a family that didn’t show much love. It was there and we all knew it was, but it was not expressed. Still isn’t. We never talked about feelings or serious issues. We just talked about events, what was going on at the moment, when we were going to do next weekend, etc. I never learned to express what I felt. I feel very good that I now see the importance of doing so and I feel even better that I have allowed myself to be vulnerable to several friends and family members for the first time in my life (maybe too much at times!!).

My W did feel that I pushed away emotionally. I now see that I did as well. That realization is what caused me to forgive her. She knows that what she was doing was wrong. She simply won’t admit it to me. I know this sounds like another mind read, but she told me at the time I discovered her emails that she planned to “end it”. Why would she end it if it wasn’t wrong? She crossed the line and she knows it in her heart. Admitting wrongdoing to me at this point is just about impossible for at this point though. I am the cause of all bad things in her eyes at the moment.

Here’s a quick recap of her EA: She reconnected with him about a year ago after a young family member died unexpectedly and had an almost orgasmic response to his presence. She tried to meet up with him again but he refused (she told him it “wasn’t for sex”….mentioning the word to a man is not good). He told her he wasn’t a home wrecker. They texted for several months and had a few phone calls. No physical meetings at all. We went on a trip to Mexico and he asked if she found her “spark” in our relationship and she told him no. He told her details about cheating on his wife when they were separated.

I found two emails she sent to him on the same day in December (I found them in Jan). The first was her telling him we were fighting again. She was going to be thinking about him on Christmas so she was going to have to call him (this makes me sick). She feels trapped and wants to be happy, etc. The second was telling him the only things she couldn’t lose were her job and her kids and that she didn’t think she’s lose them based on our state laws. She told him it was ok for him to respond… basically begged him to.

We then saw him at a public event and she was trying to make eye contact/get his attention right in front of me…actually looking over my shoulder.

Bottom line, she was pursuing him. I do give him credit for not acting but also fault him for not cutting her off more abruptly especially after I sent him a note.

I appreciate that perspective of your experience. I think there are a lot of similarities. I think I have done a pretty good job seeing things from her perspective. I actually feel that I am currently where she was last year. My wife has pushed me away and my eyes are now open to the possibility of being with someone else. The door is open but do I want to step through….

I am focusing on myself and the kids as much as possible. I am going to the Y quite a bit and have met a few people there. I am going to start reconnecting with old friends and hope create new networks. I need to be patient and vigilant.

[Reallyover]

Just venting...W blew up today again. I had to ask her how she wanted to handle a procedural issue regarding the D today and she got upset. I copied her on a note I sent and the response from my atty. Said she didn’t trust me. Sent a note to her atty…didn’t copy me. Guess I won’t do that again .

She is a mess. I feel bad for her but not as bad as I used to. This is her doing. She has to deal with it. She told me again she wants to move out and take kids. I said no. She needs a court order to do what she wants. Not going to happen. It’s best for the kids to stay in the family home….she says we’re no longer a family. I told her I don’t know of anyone besides her that would say it’s best for the kids to do it. She said it would because she is going crazy in the house. If she’s crazy, it hurts the kids. Selfish thoughts. I told her I know she is dealing with a lot. She started to yell and I left. Don’t need to hear the nonsense.

She said she doesn’t know what’s wrong with her. Doesn’t know why she is so upset by my presence. I told her that she is not a hateful person and she is carrying a lot of hate and anger towards me. Also told her I don’t know why since I have been nothing but civil towards her everyday for the last two months with the exception of one. She didn’t say anything.

This irrational BS is getting old. She keeps digging for reasons to get mad. I could deliver 3 babies in a burning car while plucking puppies out of the river with my other hand and she would complain about the look on my face…….

[Valeska19]

This irrational BS is getting old. She keeps digging for reasons to get mad. I could deliver 3 babies in a burning car while plucking puppies out of the river with my other hand and she would complain about the look on my face…….

This made me chuckle out loud. Sounds like she is trying to push your buttons a little bit. My w does it too.

Be careful though about telling her how she feels and why she feels that way. Stick to your guns w/o throwing it in her face. Let your actions speak louder than your words.

Keep working on those hard-earned changes!