First, as Jack3 said, YES, YOU Do have to change and NO, SHE does Not... at least not yet.
You are the one who wants to save the marriage, not her. So you have to do what it takes to get things started.
Is that fair? No, it's not fair. Neither is famine in Africa...no one here said any of this is fair.
Also--Lose the scorecard, which you are absolutely keeping as much as your w is. Scorecards are lists of grievances and records of slights and insults and injuries you keep track of to justify your anger...
or in your w's case, her decision to remove you from the home.
Either way, fair or not (I submit scorecards are unfair to both b/c each party uses a different measuring tool, but I digress)....you are keeping score (so is she) and
Scorecards HURT marriages...and Decrease the chances of reconciling.
Since reconciling is your stated goal, stop keeping score...
DBing is not about winning, or being "right". You must Understand this.
DBing is about saving yourself and then, we hope, saving your marriage.
Looking at your thread, I had to hunt elsewhere to know what you were talking about when you mention 2 boys dying in the backyard. Okay found it...
(BTW It's just easier to help you and to follow your story if you just have one thread---fyi.)
OH and---Sidenote--I agree with Jack3....Calling me "hon" isn't appropriate b/c we don't know each other , and you were essentially arguing in your post, not kidding or jesting... so
It rubbed me the wrong way. IF Jack or Denver or 9lives said it, that would be different b/c we know each other and kid around. But you and I don't, and plus,
you spent most of your time writing a defense of yourself as if you'd been attacked, which you were not.
Bottom line You need to at least look at things in a new way so you don't keep circling in loops, (as we all do at first)
So that YOU can move forward....
then MAYBE the WAW will want to catch up with you, but yes, it begins with us and for a long time, it's ALL about OUR CHANGES...way longer than you think is "right"...
So I still don't know what 180s you are doing. Are you behaving differently in any specific way? It's not a tricky question. Here's what I mean.
Examples of small things are like when someone who once was late all the time, changes and is NOW arriving at appointments early. Someone who was wasteful with money, CHANGES and is now investing and saving some of every paycheck, like they have a "plan"...
Staying vague about your 180s means you either don't understand them (did you really read the DB books? I can't recall the answer to that question but I"ve asked you it more than once).
OR you are resisting the 180s...
(you want to save your marriage, so dig deeper).
Of all the complaints your w had about you, we know some were unfair and inaccurate, of course. That's how it goes. Been there, seen that.
But usually SOME of them are true, or have some validity to them. That's where our chance to grow and improve comes fastest and most noticeably.
Instead of resisting that comment, embrace it.
Here's why. When I went to mc with my h, to 4 different ones over 2 years...
I tired of hearing that h was being selfish and "acting single." ALL of them said that or words to that effect. H said I was simply a better talker than he is, but he went alone to the c's too.
You might think I liked it b/c it meant that I was "right"...but to ME, having them make h wrong, meant I was powerless to change things. H did not care what they said. He did NOT change b/c the mc told him he was being selfish or acting single... So when I met a c who gave ME advice on how I could change ME, I felt empowered....do you get that? That's what I hope for you to see. That way, YOU can look within YOU and change some things, so that your w will come to realize
what she MUST realize in order to come back to you...which is...
that marriage to you now, from this day forward, would be better than before.
If you have not changed in any measurable observable way, then why would this happen?
Naturally, you have an arsenal of reasons for why she SHOULD come back, but if she were the type to allow guilt and duty to be the reasons for returning, it would have happened by now, imo.
For now, you have to let go of reasons you think she SHOULD come back. She already knows those reasons.
YOU need to SHOW HER that marriage to YOU would be better for HER and the kids...
If you don't know if that's true, or in what ways, then the chances of reconciling AND restoring your marriage are slim.
Okay so let's look at what YOU bring to the table
(Yes yes, we'll all help you with setting boundaries for her IF AND WHEN she's open to that....but you are far away from that point now.
We are here to help you get to the point where she would be willing to listen to your boundaries. You are simply not in a position to have those yet.)
So, back to YOU and what you bring to the table...
Broken, you lived in your mil's house for decades, right? I'm not attacking you for that, just clarifying.
And Forget about MIL's sins for now. We get it. She was at best, difficult.
But what was the plan for YOUR family home? Were you ever going to have your own home or were you okay with permanently living with mil?
How did your WIFE feel about that plan, or lack of one?
How did YOU feel about that?
Why'd you live with mil for that long? Do you see how it might have affected the way your w sees you? Do you see how it might have affected how YOU saw you?
REGARDLESS OF MIL's influence....let's discuss some of the more "global" things you mention in your threads, about men and women and the "Shoulds" of life.
There was a study of expectations of spouses, for western men and women. (Includes Hispanics).
Men most valued in their wives, their physical attraction, and peace in the home (which I think means no nagging).
Women most valued fidelity and security. Fidelity's meaning is clear, but "security" means more than mere safety. I wonder about the "lies" she is spreading about you physically abusing her. I believe you when you deny ever touching her, but did you ever intimidate her? Early on you admitted you had a temper. What does that mean?
But security also means Financial safety & security.
A home, at least a place they can call their own, knowing bills will get paid, the lights won't get turned off, the kids will have all that they need and some of what they want, and sometimes, more.
But let's keep it basic.
Women have expectations of being provided for. Right or wrong, at some level, most of us do. And men have expectations too. Fair or not.
I call it the "Caveman theory", (which I think is the crux of the study's findings).
Imagine a caveman and woman in their cave with a new baby. There are dangers and cold weather outside the cave. Maybe there are a few berries and nuts inside, but clearly more food is needed.
So The man goes out to hunt and gather, and the woman stays and protects the child, she nurses him with her body, and keeps the fire going so it is warm when the caveman comes home. She piles the skins and furs up against the hole in the wall of the cave,so that no wind comes thru.
The cavewoman wants and needs to know that her man will come home with something to eat. She wants to know the hole in the cave wall will be repaired so no sabertooth tiger comes in the night...she hopes he stays safe.
The caveman wants/needs to know his child will be cared for and the home will be warm...he wants to know she will protect the baby and keep the fire going, for it is hard to start a fire.
So, just in caveman terms, your w MAY have felt you were not bringing home the food, and the cave itself belonged to another.
Do you see how this can affect how you are viewed? (Fair or not, can you see this?)
As for going back to school....Was your w's original goal to get a degree so she could earn enough money so you/she could get your own place? Did you consider going yourself?
Why was your w going to school for so long? (8 years). Was she going part time?
Back to you.
Never mind your mil for a minute, b/c even without her...most men and women would be bothered by not having their own home.
When it's a lifestyle choice, as opposed to a temporary way to save enough for a home, it can be bad for one's self image.
Assuming this is true, i.e., that it bothered you, what did YOU do about that?
If it bothered YOU, is it possible that it caused you to read into some of their comments more attacks than were real, AND OR that you over reacted to them?
I am not attacking you or
defending them. I am trying to get YOU to see things from another point of view
b/c the point of view and approach you've used so far, has not gotten you closer to your goal.
Like the DB books say, if what you are doing isn't working, do something different.
Make sense?
Give real DBing a chance. Be the best man you can be, in specific measurable ways...and leave the results up to God.
And try not to embrace the anger or bitterness.
I found my anger at h was totally justifiable...totally "right"...also it was
unhealthy for ME (it consumed me and took my energy away from my kids and away from creating my future and GAL)
so I had to give up on letting my anger run my life. Thank God.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
