Compassion for a MLCer

[broken5150]

Hi, 25

My present goal right now is to save my marriage and have my family back. I love my wife and I don't want my kids to have a broken home. I'm taking this time to learn patience, pray and get a little closer to god. Its been 9 months and my wife doesn't communicate with me. I feel left in the dark. She had threatened me with divorce papers and all and I never saw anything. If she would give me just a hint of something, our would make things a little clearer.

No,i didn't call my wife a fool. I commented thather actions are foolish. She had acted totally against her own moral code and principles.

Was it kind of mil to have us live in her home? Yes, but, she has a nasty mouth and could care less who she hurts with it. Why live us live in your home and them call me worthless just because I'm not a handy man? And her constant involvement in raising our kids was unacceptable! example... My first born is borderline autistic. He's not a sports fan. He's more like me...comics, movies, superheroes, wrestling and video games. So one day came that I told mil that I was not going to take our son to play ball because he simply did not want to. She mil told my son right in front of me that she was going to take him to the ymca to get him a big brother because he really didn't have a dad. 25, I have a huge list of things that buzzard did! Just my wife likes to live lavishly and mommy gets her the things I can't. And my w had her so under control its not even funny. Bottom line, the buzzards gotta go!

All the name calling and belittlement mil has done is rediculous! Yes, she has good in her,but ir doesn't mean she can shoot her mouth off when ever she wants. And instead of trying to encourage her daughter to stay in her marriage, she encourages her to date and dump me. Mil was the one that told me to forget the 20 years I had with her daughter and find another woman. And, if her daughter wants to screw another man, that I should let her.

25, I'm sorry hon, but that woman is bad news. That's why she is a hermit. She its terrified of her daughter leaving her behind. As long as ashes in the picture, we will never be a happy couple.

About my 180's? All I can say about that is that I've learned lots of patience! In the past,i had a short fuse. I think most latin men do. I have taken control of my own bills. And, I've learned to budget. Her main complaints were we fight to much and I want handy in the house. To be honest, it got real bad after plastic surgery. That's when she changed. Weve had a good life 25. She is also stressed out. She is a real go getter. Shes been in school for the last 8 years. I think we just lost track of each other. And when those 2 boys died in our back yard last october, I think It might of triggered something.

My gal has been simple, allot of church functions and I'm back at the gym hardcore. Most of my free time goes to my babies. And allot of praying.

She hasn't filed, which to me its a good thing. Spewing has tamed down and she at home allot with the kids. I humbly understand the need to change 25, but it can't be just me.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I humbly understand the need to change 25, but it can't be just me.

Right now it does.

You have the book. You post here.

Down the road? And so far down the road it doesn't pay to even look toward it, yet; yes she needs to change in order to keep up with the you that you are not yet at.

FYI:

25, I'm sorry hon,

That's condesending. I took it that way, and I'm not 25, right; chief?

[broken5150]

Oh, Im sorry;boss. I meant no offense by it. Its the way I talk. Im sorry thats the detail that stood out the most out of my whole post, but hey, what can you do right? Lol.

Sorry 25.

[25yearsmlc]

Broken,

wow, I hope you can take all this to heart.

First, as Jack3 said, YES, YOU Do have to change and NO, SHE does Not...
at least not yet.

You are the one who wants to save the marriage, not her. So you have to do what it takes to get things started.

Is that fair? No, it's not fair. Neither is famine in Africa...no one here said any of this is fair.


Also--Lose the scorecard, which you are absolutely keeping as much as your w is. Scorecards are lists of grievances and records of slights and insults and injuries you keep track of to justify your anger...

or in your w's case, her decision to remove you from the home.

Either way, fair or not (I submit scorecards are unfair to both b/c each party uses a different measuring tool, but I digress)....you are keeping score (so is she) and

Scorecards HURT marriages...and Decrease the chances of reconciling.

Since reconciling is your stated goal, stop keeping score...

DBing is not about winning, or being "right". You must Understand this.

DBing is about saving yourself and then, we hope, saving your marriage.

Looking at your thread, I had to hunt elsewhere to know what you were talking about when you mention 2 boys dying in the backyard. Okay found it...

(BTW It's just easier to help you and to follow your story if you just have one thread---fyi.)

OH and---Sidenote--I agree with Jack3....Calling me "hon" isn't appropriate b/c we don't know each other , and you were essentially arguing in your post, not kidding or jesting... so

It rubbed me the wrong way. IF Jack or Denver or 9lives said it, that would be different b/c we know each other and kid around. But you and I don't, and plus,

you spent most of your time writing a defense of yourself as if you'd been attacked, which you were not.

Bottom line You need to at least look at things in a new way so you don't keep circling in loops, (as we all do at first)

So that YOU can move forward....

then MAYBE the WAW will want to catch up with you, but yes, it begins with us and for a long time, it's ALL about OUR CHANGES...way longer than you think is "right"...

So I still don't know what 180s you are doing. Are you behaving differently in any specific way? It's not a tricky question. Here's what I mean.

Examples of small things are like when someone who once was late all the time, changes and is NOW arriving at appointments early. Someone who was wasteful with money, CHANGES and is now investing and saving some of every paycheck, like they have a "plan"...

Staying vague about your 180s means you either don't understand them (did you really read the DB books? I can't recall the answer to that question but I"ve asked you it more than once).

OR you are resisting the 180s...

(you want to save your marriage, so dig deeper).

Of all the complaints your w had about you, we know some were unfair and inaccurate, of course. That's how it goes. Been there, seen that.

But usually SOME of them are true, or have some validity to them. That's where our chance to grow and improve comes fastest and most noticeably.

Instead of resisting that comment, embrace it.

Here's why. When I went to mc with my h, to 4 different ones over 2 years...

I tired of hearing that h was being selfish and "acting single." ALL of them said that or words to that effect. H said I was simply a better talker than he is, but he went alone to the c's too.

You might think I liked it b/c it meant that I was "right"...but to ME, having them make h wrong, meant I was powerless to change things. H did not care what they said. He did NOT change b/c the mc told him he was being selfish or acting single...

So when I met a c who gave ME advice on how I could change ME, I felt empowered....do you get that?

That's what I hope for you to see. That way, YOU can look within YOU and change some things, so that your w will come to realize

what she MUST realize in order to come back to you...which is...

that marriage to you now, from this day forward, would be better than before.

If you have not changed in any measurable observable way, then why would this happen?

Naturally, you have an arsenal of reasons for why she SHOULD come back, but if she were the type to allow guilt and duty to be the reasons for returning, it would have happened by now, imo.

For now, you have to let go of reasons you think she SHOULD come back.
She already knows those reasons.

YOU need to SHOW HER that marriage to YOU would be better for HER and the kids...

If you don't know if that's true, or in what ways, then the chances of reconciling AND restoring your marriage are slim.

Okay so let's look at what YOU bring to the table

(Yes yes, we'll all help you with setting boundaries for her IF AND WHEN she's open to that....but you are far away from that point now.

We are here to help you get to the point where she would be willing to listen to your boundaries. You are simply not in a position to have those yet.)

So, back to YOU and what you bring to the table...

Broken, you lived in your mil's house for decades, right? I'm not attacking you for that, just clarifying.

And Forget about MIL's sins for now. We get it. She was at best, difficult.

But what was the plan for YOUR family home? Were you ever going to have your own home or were you okay with permanently living with mil?

How did your WIFE feel about that plan, or lack of one?

How did YOU feel about that?

Why'd you live with mil for that long? Do you see how it might have affected the way your w sees you? Do you see how it might have affected how YOU saw you?

REGARDLESS OF MIL's influence....let's discuss some of the more "global" things you mention in your threads, about men and women and the "Shoulds" of life.

There was a study of expectations of spouses, for western men and women. (Includes Hispanics).

Men most valued in their wives, their physical attraction, and peace in the home (which I think means no nagging).

Women most valued fidelity and security. Fidelity's meaning is clear, but "security" means more than mere safety. I wonder about the "lies" she is spreading about you physically abusing her. I believe you when you deny ever touching her, but did you ever intimidate her? Early on you admitted you had a temper. What does that mean?

But security also means Financial safety & security.

A home, at least a place they can call their own, knowing bills will get paid, the lights won't get turned off, the kids will have all that they need and some of what they want, and sometimes, more.

But let's keep it basic.

Women have expectations of being provided for. Right or wrong, at some level, most of us do. And men have expectations too. Fair or not.

I call it the "Caveman theory", (which I think is the crux of the study's findings).

Imagine a caveman and woman in their cave with a new baby. There are dangers and cold weather outside the cave. Maybe there are a few berries and nuts inside, but clearly more food is needed.

So The man goes out to hunt and gather, and the woman stays and protects the child, she nurses him with her body, and keeps the fire going so it is warm when the caveman comes home. She piles the skins and furs up against the hole in the wall of the cave,so that no wind comes thru.

The cavewoman wants and needs to know that her man will come home with something to eat. She wants to know the hole in the cave wall will be repaired so no sabertooth tiger comes in the night...she hopes he stays safe.

The caveman wants/needs to know his child will be cared for and the home will be warm...he wants to know she will protect the baby and keep the fire going, for it is hard to start a fire.

So, just in caveman terms, your w MAY have felt you were not bringing home the food, and the cave itself belonged to another.

Do you see how this can affect how you are viewed? (Fair or not, can you see this?)

As for going back to school....Was your w's original goal to get a degree so she could earn enough money so you/she could get your own place?
Did you consider going yourself?

Why was your w going to school for so long? (8 years). Was she going part time?

Back to you.

Never mind your mil for a minute, b/c even without her...most men and women would be bothered by not having their own home.

When it's a lifestyle choice, as opposed to a temporary way to save enough for a home, it can be bad for one's self image.

Assuming this is true, i.e., that it bothered you, what did YOU do about that?

If it bothered YOU, is it possible that it caused you to read into some of their comments more attacks than were real, AND OR that you over reacted to them?

I am not attacking you or

defending them. I am trying to get YOU to see things from another point of view

b/c the point of view and approach you've used so far, has not gotten you closer to your goal.

Like the DB books say, if what you are doing isn't working, do something different.

Make sense?

Give real DBing a chance. Be the best man you can be, in specific measurable ways...and leave the results up to God.

And try not to embrace the anger or bitterness.

I found my anger at h was totally justifiable...totally "right"...also it was

unhealthy for ME (it consumed me and took my energy away from my kids and away from creating my future and GAL)

so I had to give up on letting my anger run my life. Thank God.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Im sorry thats the detail that stood out the most out of my whole post

Broken,

The thing that stood out most, about your post was about the need for change.

Do you really think that was the whole point of my post was to attack you? That serves no purpose for me, what does is giving you the best advice I can to help you save your marriage.

I called you chief to put a little personal perspective on it, I am hoping you were being clever and doing the Dane Cook thing in response.

If that is the way you talk, and you have two people, strangers who don't like it? It might be something worth looking at. Ask a friend, or co-worker how they feel about it.

The words: "I'm sorry (insert what you're sorry about), but..."

The but tends to invalidate the sorry. The but is only used to justify why you did/said what you said. If you're not sorry...don't say it.

You may think I am being an asshat, overly picky and attacking you. I am not, there is a notify button that will send this topic and whatever post you feel is offensive, not only to me, but to the head honcho Virginia if you feel that I am.

I am being picky, because you still have a need to communicate with your wife. Until I broke bad habits when I talked with my wife? She wasn't listening to me. One of the first signs that I had changed for her, was in how I talked with her. (Not to her, not at her, but with her)

[broken5150]

Hi Jack,

About this whole attacking thing, I dont think ANYONE is attacking me. I have NEVER been to any forums or had any online chatting thingies. Never had the need to. Also, it was kind of forbidden by the wifey. She hated all Facebook, Myspace & Twitters untill she got her plastic surgery and wanted to show off to the world. So,I gladly accept any advice on online discussion etiquette . Oh, and YEP! Im a huge Dane Cook fan!

I have allot of questions to answer 25. So stay tuned!

Same Bat time, Same Bat channel!

[broken5150]

Hi 25,

Thank you for your response.

I’m gonna have to humble myself in answering your questions and be completely honest. Not that I’ve lied about anything, but I’ve been writing on this forum for some time now hoping that someone will tell me that all of this will blow over, we will reconcile and everything will be ok. Well, there is a chance of this happening , but not without hard work.

About the “score cards”…

This is something that both my wife and have been doing for almost ALL of our lives together including the MIL. All of us have both said and done things that were hurtful in the past. I am the type to apologize. They, are not. They like to sweep things under the rug and make it up with gestures or buying something materialistic.

At the beginning of this separation, I wasn’t able to live in their house but, I had the key and I could come and go as I pleased. Until, the one day that I was talking to MIL on HER cell about my wife and I. I was telling her that her daughter and I needed counseling. She had replied that it was nonsense to do this and to just let her daughter go, forget the 20 years and find myself another woman. During the conversation, my wife walked and was furious that I was talking to MIL. So she took the phone from her, and THOUGHT she hung it up. Something told me NOT to hang up and just listen. Then that’s when I heard my wife reading a text to MIL about a conversation she was having with some other guy and how that man loved my wife’s body and so on. I hung up and then called back and told my wife that I heard everything. She then told me I heard nothing and she hung up. Then her MIL called me and told me that wifey was reading something that was meant for her, the MIL. I then told her to give it up and not to lie. I know what I heard. Then MIL got upset and told me to give her the key to the house and so I did. So that was the end of me going there.

Now, about the 180’s

Yes, I was a hot head, but that has been taming down for the last couple of years. I do still get angry sometimes, but it takes allot to get me there. Church has helped allot in this matter and so have my babies. I used to spend $ carelessly. Now, I’m a real penny pincher. This is due to the fact that I have to survive while I give my wife child support. And now that she decided not to work and go to school full time, it’s costing me more. And to be honest with you, apparently, SHE CAN CARELESS! She doesn’t even care if MY bills get paid. And if she doesn’t get her $, there starts the venom spewing.

I have bonded with my children during this time. MIL would always tell me that if her daughter and I would ever get separated, that I would just forget about my kids and move on. You see, she is judging me by her past experience with men. Before our separation, I was kind of selfish with my time. LOTS OF XBOXING! Also, to get me to do anything around the house was like pulling teeth. However, none of my rules or opinions were never honored or even considered. It was my wife’s way or NO WAY. So I found it kind of hard to motivate myself to do ANYTHING in MIL home.

I have put my ego and machismo to the side. Before, when I was asked to do something that was against my DUDE status, I would just smirk and walk away. Now, when I’m asked to do something, I’ll do it and with pleasure because during this separation, I’ve done allot of reflection and have seen that there were allot of ugly things about me. Not nasty things, but just things that would make me look like a stuck up ahole.

I’ve built my confidence and I know I can survive on my own & that I’m more than just a fifth wheel. I’ve learned to listen to people instead of just waiting for my next turn to talk.

I’ve learned who my real friends are. I’ve learned to not be too quick to judge on their marriages when mine was falling apart behind the scenes.

I’ve grown to love and appreciate the God given gifts that in the past, I did not acknowledge them as blessings. My job, wife, health, a home, healthy children and great friends. In the past, I just took them for granted.

I’ve grown closer to God. Before, I was just playing on his stage and getting the message through to other people. With this current situation, I feel that he’s telling me that he wants a little more from me than just playing on his worship team. So, the bible has become instruction manual. The book of Psalms has given me comfort. The book of James has given me endurance. Job, has given me hope and Habakkuk has given me proof and insurance that everything will be ok no matter what the outcome.

I used to sleep in every chance I got. Now, I’m an early bird.

Oh, and here’s a biggie… I used to yell allot. Since I’m not really the physical type, I would use my voice. And not to toot my own horn but when I yell, the house shakes. Now, I couldn’t yell even if I wanted to. The quieter it is, the happier I am.

25, I really hope I answered your questions about 180’s. I know there is more that will come and I will handle them accordingly. Also, my 180’s are the same as my wife’s complaints about me. That’s why I’m working real hard on them.

Over all, she knows I’m a good man. I have my tough character, but all in all, she knows I love her more than life itself. We’ve been together since we were 17. SHE SHOWED ME HOW TO DRIVE FOR PETE’S SAKE! LOL.

She has allot of insecurity. I’ve learned in MLC, that allot of childhood issues are the cause. I think I’m receiving the punishment for her father’s sins as well as mine.

I knew that when she got her plastic surgery, things were going to change and I was going to be in for one HECK of a ride with all the attention she was going to get. She was always a VERY pretty woman. But since her lap band surgery and her plastic surgeries, she is the spitting image of Jennifer Lopez!

Just so you know, I feel like I’m partially, if not, FULLY responsible for her insecurities. I for one was VERY overweight myself. I wanted to get into the police department like the rest of my family. I had to lose a whopping 150 lbs and I did it! So when I got into the police dept, my ego flew through the roof. I was receiving allot of attention from the opposite sex and it drove her nuts! I kid you not, if she was able to put a Low Jack up my wazoo, she would of done it.

I believe that if you were to ask her, has your husband changed? She would say yes. However, like most MLC’rs, she might think that once we are back together, I might go back to the way I was. I can assure you,25, now that I look back at myself, I really don’t like who I was. And now that I know what a MLC is, when I look back, I think I might have gone through one myself.

My wife has tolerated allot of stuff, 25. I’m not the easiest person to render. That’s why I’m standing for my marriage now. She deserves the same tolerance, patience, understanding, love and determination she has shown me despite what EVERYONE else is telling me to do, divorce, find another woman, get vengeance blah blah blah…

About the living situation…

Yes, we did plan for all of us to move in together with the MIL. We had the plan of having 3 incomes and everything would be great. So you can have an understanding, 25, the opinions I’ve heard from other people is that we as a family look like MIL is the mom and we are all her kids.

MIL made it very clear to me several times… No matter how wrong her daughter might be, she will ALWAYS side with her and she has NEVER prove otherwise. That’s why I feel things have been lopsided.

On the other hand, I’m not that hard to please. I’m not a drinker, smoker, drug user or anything like that. I just want my music, my xbox, my EVH Wolfgang guitar and I’m also a Star Wars SUPERFREAK! I’m actually a homebody. I’m always eager to please and I love putting smiles on people’s faces.

25, when I lost weight and I wanted to do my fair share of hell raising. My wife complained so much that I had to get rid of some friends, stop going to the gym so much, put on a little weight so she can feel better, stop playing with bands and change my wardrobe. I couldn’t even wear a pair of SUNGLASSES without her flipping out! When I saw that her insecurities where driving her nuts, I did all these changes to ease her mind. Now that SHE gets her body changed, the woman kicks me out of her house and does whatever the HECK she wants! WITH THE SUPPORT OF HER MOTHER!

THAT’S WHATS PISSING ME OFF!

Ok, now back to the nitty gritty…

My plans for a family home is plain and simple. Peace. No yelling, a 50/50 marriage. Heck, at least she can give me the ILLUSION that its 50/50. And I want control of my own finances. That I have already.

OH! I want to walk around in my underwear at home, but I can’t because of MIL!

Despite my temper, my wife KNOWS that I’m harmless. I’m kind of like a gorilla… Gorillas throw their big temper tantrum to intimidate and then takes off. LOL. I HATE PHYSICAL ABUSE ON WOMEN AND CHILDREN!

Yes, my wife along with several other people have claimed that I intimidate. 25, to be honest, I don’t mean it. Its just my character. That’s also one of my 180’s. I try to walk around with a (sort of) semi-smile on my face. LOL, some people have asked me, “Dude, what’s wrong with you? Did you lose your nuts or something?”

I look at it like God has broken me down, to rebuild a better person.

Financial security has never been a problem. However, she DOES like to over spend and max out her cards. But me being the idiot, I just give in because I want her and my kids to have everything and anything they want.

Im kind of like my father. I was born out of wedlock. My father took full responsibility over me. He didn’t do what typical male Hispanics do when they have offspring out of wedlock. They tell their lovers, “he’s your problem, not mine. You take care of him”. My father loved me and gave me everything I needed AND wanted. And when he found out that my mother was abusing me and since I was a BIG secret in the family, he went to his wife and broke the news that he had a son with another woman. He gave her the ultimatum, either she accepted me or he and I would move to a different house. My father is another hot headed Hispanic. I think that’s where I get it from. He is a highly decorated World War 2 vet that fought in D-day, Pointe Du-Hoc in France.

My wife has been going to school for a long time now. In 2002, she got her AS in teaching. Soon after, she got her bachelors, then her masters as she graduated with a 4.0 and suma kum laude in teaching. She started working and then teaching jobs here in South Florida became a problem. Now she is going back to school to become a speech therapist.

After she graduated from her first degree, I wanted to go to school. Then she dropped the bomb that she wanted to go back and start something else. Of course, I let her have her way. If anyone can do it, its her.

Our whole lives even last year a little before the accident, she was telling me that God put us together forever because after all the things we’ve endured as a family, we are still together and its for a reason. So after the accident, something changed. I knew that I was in for something REALLY bad. When I was reading about one of the boys who died, he was also in a worship team AND HE HAD MY SAME BIRTHDATE! That sent shivers up my spine. I felt God telling me, Get ready son, I got a BIG test for ya!

In a nut shell, as family, we care and love each other very much. We’ve been under allot of stress within the last couple of years with our sons autism, her schooling, my threats of cancer and our financial obligations.

Despite all her venom spewing, name calling, hate mail and inconsiderate acts, I have a feeling in my heart that things might be ok. Her demeanor is changing daily. Her anger is taming down, our conversations are a little more pleasant and there are some hugs and smiles towards each other. She calls me daily and lets me know of how’s she’s doing. I’ve stopped the CONSTANT texting asking her where we stood in our marriage. I’ve stopped the blaming and the judgment and just started full on supporting and showing compassion. Once I stopped the constant harassing and let her breath a little, she started making some progress.

Now about the MIL , that’s going to be a tough call on my part. As much as I believe that we should be on our own, I also believe that after spending her whole life caring for her daughter and giving her, her kids and yes me a decent life, she should not be discarded and thrown out to be on her own all alone especially in her age of 75. That is NO way to repay a parent.

I’ve had a question in my heart about how to handle this. So, someone gave me about called Captured By Grace by Dr. David Jeremiah. This is the CURRENT 180 I’m working on.

I’ll keep praying on it. I miss her and my family. God will make everything work together for our good.

That’s all I got 25. Lol. I hope I gave you some insight.

Thank you all for the great advice you have given me.

[broken5150]

Hi everyone!


Just another wet and humid day here in sunny South Florida dodging hurricanes.

Ive read a post from Cadet stating that depression is a key sign of MLC and that its always present. Since I spend close to little or no time in the presence of my wife, what are the signs of depression that I should look out for?

[Cyrena]

There's a good article you can google, called something like "Seratonin: from Bliss to Despair" that lays the signs of depression out quite clearly.

[broken5150]

Here's one that I JUST found...

Depression sign #1: MLC'ERS WILL OFTEN VIEW THEIR LBS AND THEMSELVES AS ONE PERSON

The reason behind the MLC'ers lack of boundaries comes because they do not view their LBS separate from themselves. They are so engulfed in negativity that they do not think clearly. As MLC'ers look to their loved ones to define and deliver their happiness, MLC'er eventually feel betrayed due to happiness being an internal thing not external. This "feeling" of betrayal may cause some of the anger we see in our MLC'ers.

Depression sign #2: MLC'ERS ARE UNABLE TO SUSTAIN AND MAINTAIN RELATIONSHIPS AS WELL AS RESOLVE RELATIONSHIP PROBLEMS.

Because of their irrational ways of thinking mainly due to a chemical imbalance in the brain, MLC'ers will hear/interpret WHAT THEY THINK others are saying rather than hearing what really is being said. They destroy these relationships by hearing blame rather than suggestions or means to problem solve.

Depression sign #3: MLC'S HAVE DEPENDENT PERSONALITIES.

We are overly dependent on others when we do not feel complete or whole. This is the very essence of a ML'er. As they continue through the tunnel, the ML'er gets much worse before they get better. The LBS is often forced into a "caregiver" role, trying desperately to fix the crisis. The ML'er becomes aware of their neediness and becomes jealous/envious of their loved ones strengths and efforts to help. Thus the ML'er responds with more anger.

Depression sign #4: ML'ERS ARE UNABLE TO SHOW EMOTIONAL SUPPORT

ML'ers are unable to stand the emotional pain they are creating. They become distant and indifferent to their loved ones. They view the LBS's as the cause of their own suffering and therefore treat them as strangers/enemies.

Depression sign #5: ML'ERS ARE EXTREME ATTENTION SEEKERS

Attention both positive and negative can confirm love and self-worth to the ML'er. To some ML'ers negative attention becomes better than no attention. Many have experienced "no attention" periods in their childhoods. Many ML'ers use drama, sinfulness, and confusion in an effort to get love. This then ensures the ML'er of keeping their LBS's close.

Depression sign #6: ML'ERS ARE SELF-CENTERED

It is all about them. As they become more absorbed in finding themselves, everyone else in their past life gradually becomes more and more obsolete. Most find their way back to what is really important - family and commitment. Unfortunately, they leave a heavy path of destruction which has to be faced.

Depression sign #7: ML'ER'S ARE UNABLE TO TRUST

How can ML'ers trust their LBS if they cannot trust themselves? Their emotions and thought processes are unpredictable and irrational. When ML'ers cannot trust, they often act out in angry outbursts and infidelity. They are searching for someone to reflect back to them an image of perfection and often heroism.

Depression sign #8: ML'ERS ARE UNABLE TO HANDLE STRESS

As ML'ers progress through the tunnel they become more and more unable to handle stress. Their life is now full of lies, deceptions, betrayals and manipulations. It becomes harder and harder to maintain their superficial world. Once they are reminded of some bit of reality revealing their inabilities and flaws, they react by getting angry, blaming, spewing, etc...

They do anything to avoid taking responsibility for their actions. If you doubt this try talking "relationship talks". You will no doubt be disappointed in the outcome. Until they are ready to repent and show remorse for their behaviors, relationship talks are useless.

Depression Sign #9: ML'ERS REWRITE HISTORY

Ml'ers typically have very low self-esteem. They will rewrite past events in their favor to try to build up their fragile egos. They would rather lie than face the possibility that something is wrong with them, let alone a mental illness. Many Ml'ers brain chemistry is skewed, not allowing them to distinguish between reality and distorted perceptions. However the distortions cannot go on forever.... As time goes on, they often get caught in their lies due to not being able to keep their stories straight.

Depression Sign #10: MOST ML'ERS HAVE AFFAIRS

The most painful and devastating part of the MLC for the LBS and family is the affair or series of affairs. Emotional affairs as well as physical affairs occur and most emotional affairs turn into physical affairs for the ML'er. Some of the affairs result in producing a "love child". Some result in the Ml'er marrying the OW/OM. Even though the ML'er is not thinking clearly, there is no justification or excuse for committing adultery. This post is by no means meant to excuse their behavior. It is unacceptable. If it is forgivable depends upon the LBS and the ML'ers ability to repent and show sincere remorse.

An affair allows the Ml'er a distraction from the pain resulting from one or more of the following issues: childhood abandonment/abuse, grief, aging, health, job loss or dissatisfaction, parenting, sexual dysfunction, or financial. Ml'ers feel if they start over with someone else, all their issues will go away. Little do they realize how much they have just complicated their life not to mention all the pain they will inflict on "loved ones" and friends. They are self-absorbed and only care about trying to obtain their happiness.

The OW/OM knows little or nothing of the Ml'ers history or flaws. They are fed "rewriting of history" reports from the ML'er on their spouse or significant other. They start the relationship by idealizing the Ml'er. The Ml'er can portray him/herself as heroic, perfect, and accomplished. Both individuals are living a fantasy. Each believes they have found their soul mate. Newness of a relationship and sex partner is empowering. Morality is no longer important. Lust equals love in the Ml'ers mind.

The OW/OM are extremely flawed individuals. They have many issues as well. Some identical to the ML'er which helps create the "connection" so many Ml'ers claim they are missing with their LBS. Ml'ers choose someone who is safe. They choose someone who will not outshine them or pose a threat. The OW/OM is usually a very insecure, fragile individual who needs to be taken care of in some way, shape or form. In many cases, the ML'er tries to create in the OW/OM a version of their LBS. Some encourage them to dress and act like the LBS. They will often take them to the same places as they did the LBS. Being of weak character and integrity, the OW/OM allows this and goes along for the ride. Many are in it for the financial and social status benefits that the ML'er brings to the table. The ML'er is usually not looking at finding someone better than their LBS. They want to find someone that they can feel superior to which will help nurture their bruised egos.

Eventually, chemical imbalances, stress, and doses of reality hit the Ml'er causing them to display their true selves. Fears resurface in the Ml'er materializing as anger and hostility. The OW/OM no longer reflects back to the Ml'er intense feelings of admiration and perfection. Sex becomes routine. Many experience sexual dysfunction during the MLC, but very much want to portray themselves as sexually potent individuals. Responsibilities increase for the ML'er especially if they are maintaining two households. Their world collapses very slowly. Almost to the point of being hard to detect for the LBS. The ML'er has come full circle. He/she is now at the same place they started. What the ML'er does at this point varies. Some go home after they realize the grass is not greener on the other side, others stay in this miserable state of self-pity and despair, and others just repeat the cycle and find OW/OM #2.

Depression sign #11: ML'ERS ARE CONTROL FREAKS

Ml'ers have no control over their behaviors and actions. They feel if they can control others as well as their environment they will eventually become whole again. This of course is not true. In fact, it usually has the opposite effect. The more controlling one is with others, the more we push them away.

How does the ML'er control others? By being verbally/physically abusive, manipulating, complaining, criticizing, blaming, saying things like "I want a divorce", "I never loved you", "I love you, but I am not in love with you", being impossible to please, having an affair, threatening to take your children away, threatening your living arrangements, threatening your financial status, losing his/her job, threatening suicide, etc. The list can go on and on.....

How does the Ml'er control their environment? Moving constantly, traveling more than usual, changing jobs, changing what they eat, changing how they dress, changing their overall appearance, what they drive, changing their friends, replacing their spouse, replacing their children, etc....

It is only when the ML'er realizes that they are not in ultimate control of others or things that a breakthrough can occur. That is why setting boundaries are important. It makes the ML'er realize their limitations and lack of control. Boundaries should be set in a firm but loving way. Ml'ers are more willing to respond to LBS's requests when this is done in a non-authoritative way.
Depression sign #12: ML'ERS HAVE EXTREME ANGER/RAGING/SPEWING

Mid-life crisis is a form of depression. Depression is anger turned inward. Unfortunately anger is a large part of the MLC journey. Anger is the path of least resistance. It is easier for the ML'er to be angry than to deal with his/her issues. Until that pain is acknowledged, and experienced, it continues to trigger anger and depression.

Beneath anger lies pain, and beneath that pain lies fear. If we remember this, we are more likely to become more sympathetic to the ML'ers journey. Unfortunately at times, it is very difficult to do. The bulk of the ML'ers anger is directed at the LBS. Ml'ers very much want to alter the perceptions of the LBS' to match theirs.

Depression Sign #13: ML'ERS ARE INDIFFERENT

Indifferent is defined as "without interest or concern, not caring, disinterested, impartial and apathetic". Nothing is harder to live with than an indifferent person. Ml'ers are indifferent primarily toward their past life. They are no longer interested in what the LBS, children, relatives, dog, cat, best friend, or church group are doing. They could care less about the lawn being cut, the algae in the pool, the leaking roof, or the bills being paid. Their past life no longer exists. They truly become "aliens" to people who love them. There are many reasons why this happens. ML'ers are self absorbed and don't want to focus on anyone but themselves. ML'ers no longer want any responsibility in their lives and just want to have fun and freedom. People and things of the past remind the ML'er of their failures. What better way to not have to deal with their pain then to pretend people and things don't exist anymore.

This "indifference" creates a whole new set of problems for the LBS. They now have the responsibilities of two people. The LBS becomes overworked and overwhelmed not to mention emotionally devastated. Many times they become financially devastated as well. The ML'er does not seem to notice the turmoil they have caused the LBS and again are "indifferent".

Depression sign #14: ML'ERS CAN BE NARCISSISTIC

The ML'er is full of low self-worth. By focusing on their appearance, their possessions, and their needs they try to project an air of importance, mortality, and perfection. They seek attention by focusing on superficial things and soon discover that these things bring only fleeting moments of happiness. No matter how many times you remind the ML'er that happiness comes from within, they try to prove you wrong by buying the next item or enhancing another body part.
Everything is about the ML'er. Everybody else's needs don't exist.

Depression sign #15: ML'ERS MAKE POOR DECISIONS

Ml'ers base their decisions on emotions as well as faulty perceptions due to chemical imbalances in the brain. This prevents them from functioning properly in important areas of their life like the workplace and home. As they make their way through the mid life tunnel, they make more and more poor decisions eventually causing them to doubt their abilities. This is just another hit on their already low self-esteem.

This is where the role of the OW/OM comes into play. ML'ers often will give up some of their decision making power at this point and depend on their "soul mates" to intervene. The OW/OM may or may not have clearer thinking at this time but you can bet their thinking will be in THEIR favor. The ML'er is much easier to convince, manipulate and persuade than ever. Since this is not a relationship based on trust and love, each player in this dysfunctional relationship is out for himself/herself.

Ml'ers also will often choose not to make any decisions due to their mass confusion.

Depression sign #16: ML'ERS ARE POOR MONEY MANAGERS

ML'ers have no control over what they do with their money. They tend to be very impulsive and often spend like crazy and make bad investments. They also use their money to satisfy and impress the OW/OM in their life as well as new found friends. Traveling seems to increase. Credit cards are often used to their limit and they have no awareness of the consequences of their debt. Their past financial responsibilities such as bills, supporting their LBS and children are put on hold. This is no longer important to them and they seem oblivious to how they affect others. It is important that the LBS protect themselves financially at this time and sometimes that means resorting to legal assistance to prevent involvement with collection agencies and bankruptcy. Spending serves as a distraction as well as a feeling of power and control to the ML'er. Money makes them feel immortal and special. This feeling slowly dissipates as they face their pain and debt.

Depression sign #17: MOST ML'ERS ARE ABUSIVE

This is one of the most serious signs of depression - abuse.
Here I will focus on emotional abuse rather than physical abuse because I feel it is more prevalent in the ML'ers journey.

Emotional abuse can be divided into various categories:

A. Withholding: By withholding love, affection, accolades, sex, children, communication, etc.. the Ml'er is saying I have something you want and I can withhold it from you. The Ml'er can take this even a step further by withholding love and affection from you and then giving it to someone else.

B. Discounting: By discounting the LBS' perceptions, the Ml'er is saying I can point out your uselessness.

C. Accusing and blaming: By blaming the LBS, the Ml'er is saying the LBS is to blame for their pain no matter what they do to you so they don't have to stop or be accountable.

D. Judging and criticizing: By judging the LBS, the Ml'er is saying to the LBS that when I tell you that something is wrong with your thoughts and actions, I put myself in charge of you.

E. Threatening: This a way for the ML'er to have control over the LBS to imply that they will take away something valuable to them, such as family life, financial stability, home, etc....

F. Name Calling: By calling names, the Ml'er is saying to the LBS that they are worthless and don't exist.

G. Denial: By denying what they are doing to you, the Ml'er can keep everything like it is and not take any responsibility for their behavior.

H. Abusive anger: By being extremely angry and raging, the Ml'er is saying as long as I am scary I can have my way.

The most common element of the categories of abuse is control. The Ml'er avoids his feelings of insecurity and powerlessness by controlling the LBS. If the Ml'er does not have anyone to have power over, they don't have any power. They often connect with someone who is easier to control and won't resist their need to dominate. It is in debate if a Ml'er does these behaviors intentionally. I think it can vary with the Ml'er. Some do not seem to have awareness that they are hurting others. Most Ml'ers seem to be totally out of character and are labeled "aliens" by their standers. The thing that is very confusing to the stander is that often ML'ers can control these behaviors in front of others, but seem to let loose when alone with the stander.

Depression sign #18: ML'ERS MAY ABUSE ALCOHOL AND DRUGS

Another escape from reality is the use/abuse of alcohol and drugs. Those who never used on a regular basis may start experimenting with various substances. Those who routinely used may increase their usage of alcohol or drugs or both.
Substance abuse may deepen the ML'ers depression only causing them more pain and problems. Misery loves company and many times the ML'er will choose to associate with people who also resort to alcohol and drug abuse.

Depression sign #19: ML'ERS CAN EXPERIENCE SEXUAL DYSFUNCTION

Hormonal changes cause the physical symptoms of menopause in woman (irregular periods, decreased fertility, etc...). Hormonal changes cause the physical symptoms of andropause in men (decrease bone density, hair loss, etc...). Hormonal changes in both men and woman can cause emotional problems such as depression.

Most people know that woman go through menopause. Men can go through what is called andropause - a male menopause so to speak. Andropause is characterized by a loss of testosterone. This affects some men more than others. Woman experience a loss of estrogen. This affects some woman more than others. Both males and females experience similar symptoms during this time, irritability, loss of libido in women and erection problems in men, sleep disturbances, mood swings, and depression. Mid life crisis involves ones hormonal, psychological, interpersonal, social, sexual and spiritual components.

Depression sign #20: SOME MLERS EXHIBIT JEALOUSY

Ml'ers exhibit jealousy as a method of control. Many have fears of abandonment and loss. ML'ers show jealousy because of their feelings of emptiness. Deep down they are terrified of losing their loved ones but feel it may be inevitable. ML'ers sense that they will no longer feel needy if they can only control their LBS.

Depression sign #21: ML'ERS ARE FULL OF SELF-PITY

Ml'ers really hate themselves. They may or may not show this to their LBS, but that is what is brewing underneath all their horrible behavior. Often, childhood issues come to the surface and feelings of rejection and abandonment prevail. Because of their self-hate and low self esteem, they have difficulty accepting that their LBS cares for them. Some ML'ers will express this by statements such as, "You cannot love me like I need to be loved", "Why don't you date other people", "the kids would be better off with a different father", “Why don’t you hate me”, etc..... They are so involved with their pity party that nothing else matters to them.

Depression Sign #22: ML'ERS DON'T WANT ANY RESPONSIBILITY

Before their crisis, most Ml'ers were very responsible, productive members of their home and work environment. Not anymore. Life is a party and they want to have fun. Many Ml'ers lose their jobs, stop working around the house, ignore their children, don't pay their bills, spend foolishly, etc... the list goes on and on. They actually feel that this is the time for them to get everything THEY want out of life and other people need to take care of THEIR responsibilities. Chemical imbalances cause them to lose focus and control of themselves. The LBS is forced to take on all the ML'ers responsibilities as well as their own. This is usually not acknowledged by the Ml'er or appreciated. In fact, they will use this as an opportunity to criticize or cut down the LBS' way of handling things. This gives them the opportunity to disconnect even more from the LBS and their family. It is only when their world starts falling apart do they realize how irresponsible they have been in their work and home environment. Guilty feelings will then set in and eventually processed by the Ml'er in later stages.

Depression sign #23: ML'ERS ARE VERY SENSITIVE TO CRITICISM

Ml'ers have this intense need to be respected and admired. They are overly sensitive to any suggestions, comments, helpful remarks and criticisms. Any comments even remotely critical are perceived as attacks on their already low self-esteem. Ml'ers will take these "perceived attacks" and deflect them by finding fault in their LBS. Usually these acts of finding fault are either non-existent or exaggerated remarks or incidents.

Depression sign #24: ML'ERS USE PROJECTION AS A DEFENSE MECHANISM

Psychological projection is a defense mechanism in which one attributes one's own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts or/and actions to others. Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses/desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them.

Depression sign #25: ML'ERS CREATE CONFLICT/ARGUMENTS WITH LOVED ONES

Ml'ers create conflict/arguments with their LBS in order to have them respond in a NEGATIVE way. When the LBS responds in a negative way, i.e. anger, crying, panic, criticism, rejection, etc.... this enables the Ml'er to attach blame to LBS' normal defensive reactions. This also enables the Ml'er to justify their horrible behavior to themselves and others. For example, my ex started an argument with me one day on the way back from the grocery store. He said I should of been spending time with him alone instead of shopping for food for the kids. I told him how silly he was behaving and became angry. By the time we got home, he was so upset at my "insensitivity to his needs" that he left the house for that day and spent his time with the other woman.
Not only was this a way for him to make me look bad, but it was also a way for him to justify being with his "soulmate".

Depression sign #26: ML'ERS ARE IN DENIAL

Along with projection, DENIAL is another major defense mechanism that mid-lifers use. Denial is the psychological process by which human beings protect themselves from things which threaten them by blocking knowledge of those things from their awareness. It is a defense that distorts reality; it keeps us from feeling the pain and uncomfortable truth about things we do not want to face. If we cannot feel or see the consequences of our actions, then everything is fine and we can continue to live without making any changes.

When Ml'ers are feeling badly, they will often associate these painful feelings with their LBS instead of taking responsibility for their own actions. Getting rid of their LBS seems to be for them the only way of escape. Denial can become increasingly worse as the Ml'er continues on his journey. Their list of bad behavior and deeds becomes so long that there is no better place to be than the world of denial. The Ml'er becomes unrecognizable to their loved ones until various circumstances force the ml'er to examine the hell they have created. These circumstances may involve excessive debt, unwanted pregnancy, loss of job, fractured family, divorce, drug and alcohol abuse, loss of friends, homelessness, etc…

Depression sign #27: ML'ERS BECOME VERY COMPETITIVE WITH LOVED ONES

When a spouse is in mid life crisis, their LBS as well as other close family members become the enemy. Ml'ers are constantly comparing their loved ones with themselves. Many times they fall short and this leads to further insecurity and self-doubt. During their journey, they are out to prove that they are important and admired and become very competitive. They will withhold compliments/achievements toward important family members at this time. They begin to choose people in their lives that will make them feel good about themselves. Usually this means choosing people who are less accomplished and lower in character in order to make themselves feel better about themselves.

Depression sign #28: ML'ERS HAVE MAJOR MOOD SWINGS

This is a very obvious sign of depression but worth writing about. Family members who witness this depression sign often feel like they are going insane. The frequency of the mood swings with mid-lifers varies. Some experience rapid cycling, others much slower. Loved ones describe their mid-lifers as having Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde personalities. They begin to feel like they are walking on egg-shells. The littlest thing can set the mid-lifer into a rage or period of depression. Some family members may feel their mid-lifer is on drugs. These mood swings may or may not affect the work environment. Some mid-lifers are better at controlling what they let others see. This therefore leaves the LBS feeling responsible for the mood swings and their world begins to fill with self-doubt.

Depression sign #29: ML'ERS ARE MANIPULATIVE

People become manipulative when they are afraid of losing something of value to them. This can range from fear of losing an actual person or losing a perception that someone has of them. Mid-lifers manipulate loved ones in believing their reality, which at times can be very distorted due to chemical imbalances in the brain, guilt, shame, denial, self-centeredness, etc... Examples of mid-lifers being manipulative can involve twisting words around, creating confusion, drama, rewriting of history, lying, etc... Unfortunately the mid-lifers use of manipulation usually ends up pushing people away from them.

Depression sign #30: ML'ERS HAVE WITHDRAWING/ABANDONING BEHAVIORS

Another very painful characteristic of the mid life journey is when they abandon/withdraw from loved ones. This varies with each mid-lifer changing with each stage. It can range from emotionally withdrawing to physically abandoning their entire family. Many are simply just imitating a part of their childhood when they experienced some form of abandonment or abuse. Many use it as a form of control and power. To some, it is easier to run than face their demons, so they hide to get away from things and people that remind them of their pain or failures. Regardless of the reason, these behaviors leave loved ones in shock and confusion. Mid-lifers are oblivious to the pain and suffering they cause. Many LBS' lose their homes, self-esteem, children, etc... due to the abandonment.