Youngster's WAW Chooses OM, Now She's in Love!

[westcoastfella]

I don't know. I do like the idea of being there for her and being friends with her, but she's engaging in something that's emotionally damaging for me to be around. I'm really starting to get why it's not healthy for me to think in a mentality like, "I have to do everything right in order to ensure that she stays with me!" I've been re-reading a lot of stuff about codependency and it fits me to a T. I feel like my whole life for the past two months has been mostly structured around getting my W back or changing for her, and it really doesn't feel like much of a life at all.

Given that I feel that she's not thinking straight, I've decided that I want to avoid any kind of conflict, blaming, or nasty showdowns, as she's in no place to understand any of that (believe me, I've known my W long enough to know that she's gone a little crazy). But I think that the next time I talk to her, I want to make it clear that I can't handle being around this anymore. I feel that the friendship that we had when we were together should be enough to make her remember what that was like if I'm really not around. I will make it evident that I'm going to give her lots of space and time to get this figured out but that I need some space to focus on me, too. I really don't know who I am anymore, and I want to spend some serious time working that out. I don't want this one relationship to define me. I want to be many things.

[aeolianchaos]

West Coast,

She's Ego Tripping at your expense.

As much as I love my W, this truly is unacceptable to me. I'm really starting to feel like the next time I talk to her, I'm going to draw a line and say that we both need some space during this time

I would suggest before you express any of this to her,you really clarify for yourself what these boundaries are for, their benefits, their purpose, etc..

I agree that you need to establish some personal boundaries for your own well being - but just be solid about it before you go throwing the b-word around.

[Truegritter]

making each interaction a positive one, even in the case of infidelity that the other partner refuses to end.

We are not telling you to be nasty, vindictive or otherwise uncompassionate.

Your W is in a painful place and she is making the best decisions she feels she can.

You can detach while still loving her.

You can detach while still leaving the door open.

I (nor is anyone else) am not telling you to shut your W off completely and leave her.

If you have hope for a R there must be in your mind a path back to you.

It just doesn't involve your emotions and pain of being attached to her every up and down.

You can be kind even when detaching. It is hard because you WILL feel anger.

Do you see the difference from what you have perceived?

[♪CS♪]

^^^^ Exactly.

[westcoastfella]

Thanks, guys. I feel a lot better about this after having a lot of helpful input on it. I guess I just want to tell her that I can't be "friends" the way that we've been. I will clarify that this doesn't mean that I won't be here if she absolutely needs me -- say, a family emergency or money troubles. I can still help her out (to an extent, of course -- she can't be a mooch or anything). I will also clarify that this doesn't mean that I'm turning my back on us completely. I will still hold "us" open as a possibility. I'm just going to give us some space so that I can work on me and so she can figure out what she really wants to do. This is something that we both need.

I do want to be compassionate and non-accusatory. Thanks, Gritter, for reminding me that she IS in a painful place, as hard as it is to see through her disrespectful behavior. I have a very strong feeling that the woman that I used to know and love is somewhere in there -- she's just buried under all of this nonsense. I've seen that woman come up from the murky depths a couple of times in the last few months, so that's why I know. This last conversation, it wasn't her. It was somebody else entirely.

[Truegritter]

I guess I just want to tell her that I can't be "friends" the way that we've been. I will clarify that this doesn't mean that I won't be here if she absolutely needs me

West be assured she will call you if she needs you. She will keep you right where you are if left to her own devices. I wouldn't be that concerned about communicating that you will be there IF X, Y or Z.

Also saying you "can't" be friends comes across as a little weak or vindictive. You CAN you just WON'T because you respect yourself and your M enough not to continue this way.

It is important that she knows you will not accept the current status quo. You accept that she has a right to make choices but not the choices themsleves as they relate to your values and integrity.

I saved this and I think it is a great way to communicate this:

W, I've told you before that I still love you and still think that we can have a great life together as both a couple and a family. I've not changed my mind on that. But I understand you are not happy, that you do not feel happy or complete inside.

You need to do what will make you happy. By my side, we live as partners, we share everything and we would do anything to help one another. But that's only if we continue as a team.

I won't stand in your way. But I also will not help you leave this marriage or this family. And I will never accept another person being a part of our life together.

I hope you find the happiness you are looking for. Go do what you need to do. You know where I will be.

You can find your own voice to say this but it is what needs to be said and committed to by you if you are going to move forward West.

[westcoastfella]

Well, I kind of wish I had checked in before now. W just called me about the sep. paperwork and could sense my great anxiety about giving her my "big speech." She asked what was wrong, so I told her.

Basically, I said that this thing with OM upsets me and that I can't deal with it. Also, I threw in that thing about this "space" being a good thing for both me and her. However, this conversation did not go as I had planned. I either expected an expression of love for me (well, no, I didn't really expect this) or a vehement expression of love for OM. Instead, I got a rebuke of us both.

She explained that she was sorry that OM upsets me, but that I shouldn't think that her R with him is something that it's not -- i.e., she's gotten to the point where she realizes that she doesn't want either of us. W stated that she didn't think that either one of us was on "her level." She also explained that it would be great if OM and I were somehow combined into the same person. He is in his thirties and has way more life experience than I do, and he also makes her feel "like the only girl in the world" (whereas she never felt that way with me). With me, I'm more with her intellectually and I always do the things that I say I will (whereas she has to "babysit" OM for everything). She also threw in that we were great but that we had no "passion." (I don't think that she realizes that ALL marriages go through the "passion has left us" phase).

She says that she doesn't expect to be with either one of us at the end of the year and feels as though I'm "holding on" to our R (which Gritter has quickly and quite rightly picked up on). This all has flown in the face of what I've expected from cases of A's -- usually the fog lasts for anywhere from four to six months. Now she no longer expresses fog-like symptoms for OM, just feelings of disdain for us both.

I'm not sure how to feel at this point. Everything seems confusing and nothing appears clear whatsoever; it feels like she says one thing one minute, then another the next. It's obvious to me, however, that I should expect to fully let go. I asked her if she wanted to go ahead and get a D since we were getting S'd anyway, but she said that it costs almost $500 and that she can't afford it right now.

[westcoastfella]

I know that I posted just about a half hour ago, but I've had some time to think to myself and calm my thoughts for a little bit. Basically, I'm feel that I'm finally ready to detach from my W and really GAL. I'm tired of feeling so attached to someone who runs into A's with other men, then stands there and tells me how we BOTH don't measure up to her UNMATCHABLE standards. I'm going to be honest, I've felt like a failure our whole R. Granted, most of that is me ("Nice Guys" feel chronic "toxic shame"), but a lot of it is her, too. At various points in our R, she's made me feel ashamed for being who I fundamentally am.

I am definitely holding onto our R way too tightly. I still keep assuming that we'll get back together someday. The thing is, I'm getting to the point where I don't care whether we make it or not. Not if she's going to say terrible things like she has tonight or make me feel bad for having an A that SHE chose to have. I may have made mistakes in our R, but I've never done anything of this magnitude.

[aeolianchaos]

W C F,

'm tired of feeling so attached to someone who runs into A's with other men, then stands there and tells me how we BOTH don't measure up to her UNMATCHABLE standards.

Good. You should feel tired of it. It isn't good for you.

You are really informed about a lot of the stuff that A's do to people in them. They think like teenagers in 'love.' Just because she has now decided that neither of you are 'on her level' doesn't mean she's right or even thinking reasonably.

My W dropped the same crap on me. "I want an equal.. a partner" I think that you probably are quite aware of the irony of this statement from someone who is currently violating their own integrity through their actions. So I want to tell you this: Don't take it personally.. Because this is her, dealing with her stuff and projecting like hell onto the people around her.

I see someone who is aggressively looking to change their situation by taking responsibility for themselves and their choices.

I see a WAS blaming other people for their grievances.

You can't do anything about the WAS, but you've already begun working to change your own situation.

You have to be the WCF that you might dare to become.

Alright. Pep talk's over. (Actually.. Pep Talk is a great song by my favorite band, the Descendents. Check it out..)

However, this conversation did not go as I had planned. I either expected an expression of love for me (well, no, I didn't really expect this) or a vehement expression of love for OM. Instead, I got a rebuke of us both.

This happens. It's good not to have too much expectations about the other persons reaction. Do you feel like your speech was an attempt to regain some control over the situation?

Now she no longer expresses fog-like symptoms for OM, just feelings of disdain for us both.

Wonder how she feels about herself, eh? Not that you should mind-read that, but its kind of worth pondering. And not acting on.

This all has flown in the face of what I've expected from cases of A's

Life is full of surprises and everything is different.

Is it really flying in the face of what you know?

Is it possible that you read the stuff you read with a confirmation bias towards what you wanted to see happen?

Based on the data you have acquire through reading - would you agree that her behavior does not represent someone thinking too rationally? Just because they don't have the 'fog' of infatuation, certainly they can still engage in a whole plethora of cognitive distortions nonetheless.

And one last thing - WAW's say the craziest $h!t sometimes. As I said before Dont take it personally. It's their perspective and you can examine it for any possible truth (anger issues, controlling behavior, sex stuff.. whatever), but when someone devalues you as a person - they are devaluing their own experiences and its a good path to eventual depression and unhappiness. Hang in there, man. I suspect that you've got a path ahead of you still - just try to make sure you're steering your boat on it's course regardless of what your WAW does.

[westcoastfella]

Thanks for the "pep talk," Chaos. It's really good to know that other people have seen the psychoses of the WAS and can see it as much as I'm beginning to see it. (By the way, I used to own "Milo Goes to College" on vinyl. Wish I still had it...)

It began to really sink in when I vented in my "Journal of Progress," a Word doc that I've been filling since the A first began. For one thing, my W accuses me of "holding on" to the idea of our R working out when SHE'S the one who called ME a few weeks ago because SHE said she was having trouble letting go of "great things" about our M! For a second thing, the way she said, "I'm sorry you're upset, but I don't want you to think that R with OM is something that it's not" just really seems asinine to me. As though the fact that she left me to pursue OM isn't upsetting in itself....LOL!

Yes, I do feel that I acquired my info with a lot of confirmation bias. I'm at the point where I realize that every A has its own set of events and changes. Sure, the basic script and psychology is often the same throughout each A. But as to particular nuances? I have yet to see how this thing's going to play out in my own situation. I would, however, agree that she does not appear to be thinking rationally. Like I said, she's said one thing one minute, another thing the next -- it's been an absolute rollercoaster ride ever since I chose to hop on.

Also, my speech was an attempt to gain control. However, it was mostly for my own health and attempts to GAL. I can't function having to be around that nonsense -- as much as I love my W, I choose not to be a part of it. I will admit that part of it has to do with Delis' "passion trap" -- it's more likely that my W will feel drawn to me because she will detect that she no longer has "control" over me. Not that this is the goal, of course. I just want to "experiment and monitor results." If I detach and remove my anxiety-filled attempts to "win her back at any cost," this route will probably prove to be the best one. If not...well, then I guess our M really wasn't worth saving, was it?