Add to that the fact that my parents went by the dictum, "Never fight in front of the children," so I thought that a successful marriage had no conflicts (even though my parents told me they had fights, more is learned by seeing than by hearing), and became either very clingy or very defensive every time we argued (I have known this is a problem for a long time, I just keep discovering more ways in which it has been influencing my behavior). I suspect there is a similar dynamic at work with your H; every time something negative happens, any time there is conflict or hard feelings between the two of you, he fears that it rings the doom of the relationship. Difference is that he is not scared of leaving the relationship...maybe just scared of "missing" whatever would make him happiest? Maybe that's why he won't commit either way - because when you fight he fears that he is giving up his chance for happiness by staying with you, but then later he wonders if the fight was just a normal part of marriage, and leaving you would be giving up the "right choice" for him?
You've hit the nail on the head again. My H did not witness any fighting between his parents either so when his mother left his father when H was 20, he was dumbfounded and quite distraught. He has expressed that he grew up believing that a good marriage did not involve any conflict or fighting.
During his parent's D, H broke up with me again. Although, I can't remember if this was the first break-up. Anyway, I do remember that H said we needed to break up during that time period because we fought, and therefore we were wrong for each other. He also said he felt marriage was obviously a hopeless endeavour, given his parents couldn't even get theirs to work when they clearly got along.
If you speak to him today about this topic, H will admit that he had poor role models for conflict resolution.
However, the difference between you and my H, is that you seem to be internalize your understanding of your childhood influences and have attempted to modify your reactions. My H on the other hand, cannot seem to truly allow these realizations about marriage and conflict to become part of his reality.
I have to wonder if it's because my H seems to think true change is not possible. He often makes statements such as, "people can't change" or you have to "accept people for who they are". Ironically, he seems to expect change from others yet makes excuses about how he should be accepted for who he is...
Originally Posted By: Psych77
And (just going totally out on a limb, here) what about his dignity? Is he afraid to respond to you when you are angry with him, for fear he will be losing his independence, just doing what he is told? That's just a (very) wild hunch.
Again, yes. I have noticed that H does not like to be told what to do. Actually, I wouldn't even use the word "told" because even if I ask him to do something for me, and even when it's a reasonable request such as helping out around the house, he seems to react by procrastinating or "forgetting". If I try to talk to him about my frustration over this issue calmly, he gets defensive. If I approach him when I'm angry, he gets even more defensive and explodes. His anger often seems excessive and over the top given the situation. He labels me the "angry one" but his anger over little things is nothing compared to mine. Although, I admit that is my perception.
Over the years, I believe his "angry outburts" have caused me to withdraw because I don't feel safe so I think this is one of the root causes of our disconnection. H seemed more comfortable with our dynamic when I cared more and he cared less. When we got to the point where neither was fighting for the R, things really deteriorated. I knew it was happening but was at a loss at what to do because I felt I had tried everything. This is also during the time I stopped wanted to ML with H. I realize now how much this hurt him. Although, before all he expressed was more anger.
I think the fear of "fighting leading to D" is where I'm very much like you because I also seem to fear for the relationship during conflict, even if the conflict is over something mundane. I'm assuming that given my history of physical and emotional abuse at the hands of my parents, that I'm also reacting to a fear of abandonment. Then again, given that my H threatens to leave constantly, that's probably a realistic fear at this point.
Originally Posted By: Psych77
W is a little harsh, but I don't think that has too much to do with it, most of the time. She has always had a rougher way about her than me, even when we were dating. She grew up on the east coast, where sarcasm is the native language. I grew up in the midwest, where the cardinal rule is, "Be nice at all costs." Maybe neither one is completely healthy. I know my upbringing has made it very difficult to assert myself until things are brought to an extreme (which may also contribute to my history of angry outbursts). So, there are times when W is overly harsh in her response to things, and that hurts me. But I think mostly I need to learn to deal with her way of communicating - and mostly, I have. It really is the criticism itself, and the anger itself, that I get nervous about. And, to be healthy, I really have to learn to deal with that.
Again, very familiar. I am fine with "normal" expressions of anger, as long as that anger doesn't carry with it an unspoken threat of abandonment. I also saw anger expressed growing up but since my parents are still together, I guess I don't necessarily see anger as a bad emotion, except when it leads to physical abuse. Concerning the physical abuse - I think because my father and I have discussed that time period in great detail and I know my F is remorseful, I have come to a place of forgiveness. My mother does not admit to the abuse but I have forgiven her as well. Has your W dealt with her abuse or confronted her parents?
Oh, and I am also (at times) very sarcastic.
Anyway, it seems I have veered off and spoken of my sitch a little too much. I find it fascinating that you seem to relate so clearly to my H and have a very similar upbringing, and I can relate more to your wife and also seem to share a similar upbringing (physical and emotional abuse specifically).
Although the difference is that you're here and obviously willing to become a better person, as am I. I truly hope both of us can learn to overcome the unhealthy dynamics we see at play in our marriages. I learn a great deal by reading your posts but I can't help but wish my H was as insightful and in touch with himself as you are. I think that puts you at a great advantage and I am very interested in seeing where your sitch takes you. I think you have created a wonderful opportunity to turn things around.
