I can't move forward and it's driving me nuts

[AntoniaB]

Cat, Kara, Beatrice, Crushed, and 25 years, thank you from the bottom of my heart. I hadn't posted for so long because of "gal-ing" and I let it build up, and having posted yesterday and read all your amazing insights, I now feel like today is definitely better and I feel like you all "get" me and you all really helped. I guess I just needed some people to say it's ok if you do NOT get into a relationship, it means you're still grieving, but grieving doesn't have to mean stuck either, I guess. Grieving while I'm doing other things--working, being a good friend and daughter and sister, doing my hobbies, researching and writing my book, these are all part of my progress. I really wasn't "doing" any of those things with meaning when I was married. My married life was the part I lived (for better or worse) but the rest of it was the fog. Now the stuff in the fog IS my life and the relationship with a partner has exited. But there are many great women who have lived without a partner, and I guess I need to embrace those women and that life right now and stop beating myself up over it.

Thank you so much again...this has been truly helpful and I feel a big virtual hug from all of you that is sustaining me right now :-)

[beatrice]

Antonia - your post actually helped me to realise how far I have come, even from a few months back when I was still grieving. [I think this come in cycles too btw]. I still grieve occasionally, but now I can look at my marriage with affection and even amusement. He was a great guy, and now he is lost. I am a great woman and I found myself.

You are such a real person, and I think that when you have grieved fully you will know it and move ahead. Forcing the issue won't help you. Occasional friendly nudges are the way forward. Be gentle with yourself, and go with the flow! You will get there just the same.

[Cadet]

Great thread - and good ideas.

Love yourself first, once you get to that point then you can worry about loving someone else.

Don't date, have FUN instead!

That is my .02

[dl443322]

Please forgive me if I repeat some stuff that others might have written to you;.

We all go through the stages of grief when this happens to us. And we each get to where we need to be in our own time.

I copied this for you. I hope it helps. If you do not feel ready to date, then dont. This is YOUR life, live it in your own way.

"7 Stages of Grief"

"It is important to interpret the stages loosely, and expect much individual variation. There is no neat progression from one stage to the next. In reality, there is much looping back, or stages can hit at the same time, or occur out of order. So why bother with stage models at all? Because they are a good general guide of what to expect.

For example, generally, a long period of "depression" (not clinical depression), isolation, and loneliness happen late in the grief process, months after the tragedy strikes. It actually is normal and expected for you to be very depressed and sad eight months later.

Outsiders do not understand this, and feel that it should be time for you to "get over it" and rejoin the land of the living. Just knowing that your desire to be alone with your sad reflections at this time is normal will help you deal with outside pressures. You are acting normally. They just don't "get it".

7 Stages of Grief...

1. SHOCK & DENIAL-
You will probably react to learning of the loss with numbed disbelief. You may deny the reality of the loss at some level, in order to avoid the pain. Shock provides emotional protection from being overwhelmed all at once. This may last for weeks.

2. PAIN & GUILT-
As the shock wears off, it is replaced with the suffering of unbelievable pain. Although excruciating and almost unbearable, it is important that you experience the pain fully, and not hide it, avoid it or escape from it with alcohol or drugs.

You may have guilty feelings or remorse over things you did or didn't do with your loved one. Life feels chaotic and scary during this phase.

3. ANGER & BARGAINING-
Frustration gives way to anger, and you may lash out and lay unwarranted blame on someone else. Please try to control this, as permanent damage to your relationships may result. This is a time for the release of bottled up emotion.

You may rail against fate, questioning "Why me?" You may also try to bargain in vain with the powers that be for a way out of your despair ("I will never drink again if you just bring him back")

4. "DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS-
Just when your friends may think you should be getting on with your life, a long period of sad reflection will likely overtake you. This is a normal stage of grief, so do not be "talked out of it" by well-meaning outsiders. Encouragement from others is not helpful to you during this stage of grieving.

During this time, you finally realize the true magnitude of your loss, and it depresses you. You may isolate yourself on purpose, reflect on things you did with your lost one, and focus on memories of the past. You may sense feelings of emptiness or despair.

5. THE UPWARD TURN-
As you start to adjust to life without your dear one, your life becomes a little calmer and more organized. Your physical symptoms lessen, and your "depression" begins to lift slightly.

6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH-
As you become more functional, your mind starts working again, and you will find yourself seeking realistic solutions to problems posed by life without your loved one. You will start to work on practical and financial problems and reconstructing yourself and your life without him or her.

7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE-
During this, the last of the seven stages in this grief model, you learn to accept and deal with the reality of your situation. Acceptance does not necessarily mean instant happiness. Given the pain and turmoil you have experienced, you can never return to the carefree, untroubled YOU that existed before this tragedy. But you will find a way forward.

You will start to look forward and actually plan things for the future. Eventually, you will be able to think about your lost loved one without pain; sadness, yes, but the wrenching pain will be gone. You will once again anticipate some good times to come, and yes, even find joy again in the experience of living.


Sweetie, remember that whatever you did or didnt do during your marriage was never done with the intent to hurt your xh. If you had known better, you would have done better. Forgive yourself.

[AntoniaB]

Alright, in looking over Brooklyn's post, I'm fluctuating between stages 6 and 7 and not in 7. So it makes sense, then, that the dating thing is not working.

I cancelled the auto renewal about to kick in for my eharmony account and I felt a weight lift, so that definitely tells me something. I also got an email from the guy I met the other day and he said while I was a really nice person and he enjoyed spending time with me, that he really didn't know what he wanted in life or have a sense of direction (this was what I had said was really important to me, that a person have a strong sense of self), and so he didn't think he was a good match for me. (I'm glad for his honesty at least...the last thing I want is a rel. with a person who is a "project" of sorts ;-)

So I guess he came into my life for a reason--to tell me I wasn't ready yet and to stay where I am with still working on myself. I got out my book "Let Go Now" on detachment and read tonight something that made me tear up and that fits with what Brooklyn said about forgiveness, and I still think I haven't forgiven myself for the past. Anyway here it is, and I think it is what I need to remind myself of every day:

"We are always where we need to be on this path. We are always traveling with those we need to travel with. Period. There are no accidents. Ever. I will accept whatever is happening as part of the plan for me today."

[beatrice]

Antonia, I have been thinking about your thread over the past few days, and the 'problem' that we have of healing. I think it is, in some ways, like other skills. We have to put a lot of effort in to it, but it also takes time. As long as we persist, without constantly worrying, and opening the oven door to see if it is cooked, eventually we move to a place of greater peace and strength.

If we were deeply involved in someone else's life, it isn't normal to flip that switch off. That is probably why the WAS rushes to someone else, to avoid facing the pain of severing a deep connection. But of course the pain is still there for them, and all the shouting, and spending, and displays of commitment to the OP are in large part a cover for their own loss. I used to think that they needed to be free of the OP to demonstrate that they were moving on, but I have come to see [as several wise posters have pointed out] that the OW remains necessary for them, long after the affair has run its natural course. I think it was 25yrs who said, they need another vine to swing to both out and back. We know it isn't healthy, but these people are damaged goods.

What we develop eventually, I believe, is strength and detachment. Things that stress out others no longer worry me much. I can love without needing to be loved back, and now value what I had, without wanting it back. I am not saying every minute of every day is perfect, but that I have found a greater peace than I imagined was possible. I thought I would be somewhat unhappy forever. Sometimes I am sad, just as sometimes i am sad because my parents are both dead, but it doesn't dominate my life, in that awful way it did for what seemed like far too long.

The main thing that upsets me now is when my xh hurts the kids, but even there, I can see it isn't my problem, and my role is to support them and help them to greater understanding and compassion, if possible, not manage their relationship. I didn't break it and I can't fix that either

[AntoniaB]

Well my earthquake levity post I guess turned out to be a little true in that this hurricane prompted contact btwn. me and XH.

Basically he contacted the intermediary friends last night and said he was very concerned and that I needed to get out of town and go to my parents, that he was afraid his apt was going to be destroyed (umm, his choice, to move to the coastline a few months ago to his new apt....) and that he thought I was in danger. I didn't know that he contacted me till this a.m., and yet when I got up this a.m., my first thought was that I should contact HIM via email directly to tell him I was concerned for his safety and thought he should evacuate voluntarily. I also told him how he could reach me in case of emergency and said that I was ok with it if he contacted me. Well when I got up with that in mind AND saw that he had contacted my friends with the message, I felt "right" about emailing him.

I didn't have any expectations about him replying and didn't feel I much cared if he did or not--none that I could tell--I just felt like in case of danger, I wanted to be kind and not leaves things badly, as I was the one to cut him off so many months ago and block his contact.

A few hours later, he emailed back. He told me that he was worried about me and wanted me to leave, and he told me he was leaving (now his area is a mandatory evac.). I said I didn't feel I could (my area is inland, not near large bodies of water, and people aren't leaving this area or told to leave).

I have 10 pets here. I do not have anywhere I can take them. My family would allow 2 or 3 at most. Not all ten. And my extended family wouldn't allow them at all. I don't come from pet people.

So anyway this went back and forth a bit with him mainly giving me suggestions for things to prep or what to do in case and him telling me it was going to be really scary because it would be at night and I'd be alone. And I was like, yeah, I know.

So I think he's left by now and the emailing is over.

So I felt better to know he "cared." Then like a moron I went to his fb page to see that his profile pic was changed 2 days ago to be yet another of him and OW, this one them in a restaurant posing, his arm around her. I can see that she is clearly younger than me (as I know), thinner than me by quite a lot, and both are smiling up a storm. All tanned and lovely. And then I just cried, because why oh why can he not just have a rel. that he isn't making SO freaking public?? Why did he have to pick a former state beauty queen as his OW?? Why couldn't she just be a "normal" person instead of a local celeb?? I swear I could deal better if I didnt' think that he was "making a case" to friends and family that she's a better "catch" than I was. He never put pics of us together as his fb profile pic. Never. He never talked about me incessantly on fb as he apparently does with her. It makes me feel like all the people in his life who have written me off entirely just sit around praising him for how thank god, he got rid of the dead weight (me) and got a new woman before it was too late.

And the kicker too is that he told me where he was going to (I didn't ask). He said he was going to stay with a guy from college who he was friends with again. This guy had a gigantic ego--he was a performer, IN MUSICALS, just like my XHs new girlfriend. My XH had fallen away from him back after college because he said the guy was egotistical and pretentious.

All I could think was OF COURSE you're friends with him. This is a guy who has no opinion about me as you've not been friends with him while we were married, and this is a guy who LOVES theater people like your girlfriend.

Yep, that's who he's staying with during the storm.

I do not know who he is, and I have to tell you I'm in a real "it's not fair" mode today, because all I can think is that aside from all of you here, there is not one person I've ever met in this world who has gone through having a spouse become another person and done what these people have done to us and still do when they make this "case" that the person they cheated with is better than we are.

Ugh...breathe, Antonia, breathe...

[beatrice]

OK, you are having a bad few days. Just remember that a lot of public posing doesn't make a great relationship. They may or may not be happy. She is a woman who is prepared to live with a cheating man. How does she ever know that he won't do it again when another nice bright shiny toy comes along.

He has to live with this bimbette and himself. You have class and dignity. That feels right now, like hard fare, but it is nourishing. Antonia, eventually all of this falls apart.

By which time you will be one strong independent lady, poking at the wreckage with the toe of her elegant shoe.

We do survive and prosper. They may appear to win individual 'battles', but we win the war. I use military terminology because at time it is like a battle.

[AntoniaB]

Beatrice, I am going to buy myself one heck of a pair of shoes just because you made that great comment above. Thanks. You really put this into perspective for me :-)

Now on to face the hurricane!!!

[AntoniaB]

Well the hurricane has put us back into contact via email and text message. He began it by telling the intermediary he was worried about me and to tell me to leave town. Then I emailed him directly, which I haven't done since March when I blocked his emails and texts, and I said look, my "rule" of no contact seems silly when there are real emergencies around. I told him I was concerned for his safety (he lives at the beach) and hoped he was leaving, but that I was staying (I'm inland) and preparing. We wrote back and forth a few times about what I could do. He told it would be scary; I said I know. Then he went north to a friend's house about 3 hours or more from where he lives.

This a.m. he sent me a text "Is everyone ok?" (meaning me and all the pets). I didn't know who it was at first as I took his phone contact out of my phone! So then it turned into almost an hour of text messages. At some point I said "you can call if you want to but maybe it would make you uncomfortable." He said "it wouldn't be a good time for me to call." (I'm sure OW is with him).

Of course, she would have to know who he was texting for an hour unless he lied and said it was a family member.

Anyway, towards the end, he said "we have things to talk about.Now is not a good time. Can I email you later."

Now you KNOW what my head did. You know what I was thinking. And you know I was thinking WRONG and setting myself up for stuff ;-) So I said "is this about the retirement money? I will call tomorrow." (the last loose end of the divorce is retirement money that goes to him from me and the company didn't transfer the funds yet). He says back, "Yeah. Just make sure they don't shelve it." So then I said "they can't. There is a qdro. You're guaranteed that money soon. I only get my half if you die or retire ;-)"

He said back "you get 150k if I die. That's a lot ;-)"

And then I said something that I truly meant that I hope establishes on some level between us that I am moving on. I said, "I'd rather you be alive than get the money that way. Honest."

Anyway, what all this means is that I guess he and I are treading into a cordial contact that didn't exist before, and it doesn't mean anything other than that, but in a way I think this is a test FOR ME that I MUST FACE.

To me, part of my getting over this and accepting his life is not hiding from it or hiding from him. That doesn't mean that I am trying to be his friend, or wanting to meet OW or anything. (shudder!) What it means is that the longer I hide from what's going on by just blocking his life and him from me, the more I feel like I do not progress at all with my own life, if that makes any sense.

I also feel like as long as I block him entirely, he thinks that I am not GALing or moving past him, and that I'm holed up here crying over losing him.

EVEN IF I AM crying over losing him anymore, and even though what HE thinks doesn't matter, I almost think that if HE thinks I'm still a victim, on some level, I still treat myself like one.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like the way to stop being a victim is to come to terms with him, which I do by being able to FACE him, via email or phone. Face him and still be ok.

So I hope that my exchange with him today is a part of that. I am not taking anything away from our communication other than one, it is nice to know he still cares ON SOME LEVEL for me and the pets and our home, and two, I took the opportunity when it came my way to be a better and stronger person than I was and face him.

My test is to make sure I make no more of this than that.