Just Be 2

[MHL]

MHL/MACh, am I misinterpreting your posts?

Are you suggesting that Denver has nothing left to demonstrate to his w?

I am not arguing the point so much as asking.

Hey 25,

I do not think you are misinterpreting my posts at all, I think that the approach of re-establishing the friendship through casual contact and interactions is sound advice and I trully believe in it.

I believe it can work as outlined by MWD in DR and DB.

However, when there is an affair present in the situation none of those things can start until all contact between the affair partners has ceased. NO EXCEPTIONS.

In Denver's case it is particularly "abusive" for his W to continue to contact the OM, especially while on vacation with Denver and the kids.

It is no different than Denver continuing to behave as he had in the past. I understand the conudrum here.......how is she to believe or even see his changes if there is no interaction between the two of them?

I personaly do not think it is healthy to tolerate nor expect Denver "BE" the "New Denver" while his W is still in contact with the OM.

There has got to be a give and take on both sides........he is willing to forgive the affair to work on the M and she has to be "willing" to end all contact with OM to work on the marriage.

Please don't mistake my tone, it is firm but it is still full of love. This is no different than a LOVE that a parent has for a child, the parent must establish structure and boundaries in their kid's lives.

I agree that without any contact, the chances of reconciliation are slim.

I also think that as long as there is contact with the affair partner there are absolutely zero chances of reconciliation.

Denver and Denver's W have to stop hurting each other.

Denver is coming to realize how his behavior in the past hurt his W and further more he is coming to realize how to better deal with his W and hopefully everyone when he is hurt by their words or actions............

it is called "not being ruled by your emotions"........a hard lesson that I had to learn also at the ripe old age of 43.

I also think that part of that learning is removing yourself from those situations that cause us pain..........contact with Denver's W causes him pain.

Why does it cause him pain???????

He loves his W......

and She is contemplating divorce and is still in contact with the OM.

I think that the time apart, the time without contact, will give them both an opportunity to work on themselves.

Denver's W may like the freedom she has choosen despite the change in lifestyle and may indeed follow through with Divorce. I don't think Denver has given her the opportunity to "feel" that freedom, he needs to open the cage door and walk away.

He does not need to hear about her woes......he will be tempted to run to her aide.........men are "hardwired" to do this. It hurts him to know that she is in "need".

She never complained about the security he provided and she still wants that......who would not???

Maybe she needs to get to a place where she can sustain herself on her own......maybe she needs to do that so that she can make a decision that will not be impacted by her security needs. That way she can really test the waters with Denver and if his changes aren't real then she can safely walk away.

Denver needs to let her figure her sh!t out on her own........

If Denver is honest with her and tells her WHY he is doing what he is doing then I don't think that "Won't be not demonstrating his changes" on the contrary I think that the communication in and of itself will be demonstrating a change.

I think the other thing that needs to be made clear is that there is a difference between "committing to working on the marriage" and "committing to the marriage."

I think that Denver needs to make it more clear that he is not asking his W to re-committ to the marriage....(I think that is what she is hearing)

Denver needs to be clear with her that he would like to "work" on the marriage and that if she would like to do that also then there needs to be a committment to the "process" in order for that to happen.

I am kind of rambling, I apologize. I am trying to respond to several things in your post 25, whilst working constantly being interupted by work .