Just Be 2

[Denver_2010]

You're not allowing this (her, missing you) dynamic to GROW and DEVELOP.

Agreed!!!!!!!!

Denver,
You are close to doing exactly what needs to be done but are still dabbling with what "feels right" or what "feels good".

You know what Sandi's signature says.......

It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!

Thanks MHL, Starsky... I see what you guys are saying. I feel that I am handling this better than I was a month ago.

Isn't possible that this is "growing and developing" even with the little bit of contact that I am having with her?

I haven't initiated contact with her, I haven't asked to see her, I haven't agreed to see her...

And I believe that she really is doing some thinking right now.

Sure, I'm afraid that if I cut off all contact with her that we will just drift farther and farther apart until there is nothing left.

But I also feel that I am dancing on this line of her perception of me as I USED to be... that I was never there for her.

Again, afraid that she will perceive that as me reverting to old behaviors.

Her perception is still the reality that I am dealing with IF I want to save my M.

I have to be mindful of that ... but also allow the 'her missing me' thing to grow and develop...

I may have read this incorrectly, but I really think that W sounded a bit nervous while talking to me tonight. She started the convo out by asking me, 'is it okay if I ask you?'

You are still analyzing your convo's with your W........this activity is taking your focus off of YOU and placing it on your W.

This is exactly why you are not "detached".

Absolutely it is MHL. I'm not going to lie to you guys... I am still very focused on how she is reacting to my actions. I'm still watching very closely for signs that she is turning.

I will tell you though that the one difference is that I will NOT allow myself to go back to how things were prior to this month. I will NOT agree to be a part of her life unless and until she is ready to work on the M.

NOW, IMO your W is starting to get the message up there when she asked "if it was okay to ask you."

Why did you not tell her "NO" ???????

Fear........pure, plain and simple.

Fear that she may decide to go through with the divorce....right??????

Well... not that so much MHL. Fear though. Fear that she will perceive me as reverting to old behaviors. See, I'm concerned that she will convince herself that I am reverting in order to convince herself that working on the M is a bad idea.

THAT is a very real concern IMO.

It's not that I don't see what you, Starsky, Kaffe are saying... I do. But I'm not ready to let myself detach to the point that I don't care anymore. BC if I do... then my M is over.

That is not what I want in the long run.

This would have been yet another perfect opportunity to state "why" you cannot have casual contact with her. It is also an opportunity to state that you are open to working on a R with her if and when she is ready to commit to working on it.

I have seriously contemplated this... still am.

But I'm still not sure that I can't accomplish what i'm trying to accomplish, what you guys are thinking that I need to accomplish, i.e., 'her missing me', without stopping all contact.

And I'm not sure that it is the best approach with my W IF I still want to save this.

BTW, this right here is pain. VVVVVVVVVVV

As with the contact on Thursday and Friday, this leaves me wondering what is going through my W's head.

The "wondering what is going through her head" is painful.

When you have contact.......you ponder what she says.....

When you ponder.......you experience pain.

Want to stop the pain?????

Absolutely it is. No question.

You are so close Denver..................

To what MHL? To relieving my pain but moving closer to D? I am willing to endure the pain if it is the best way to save my M...

Now how frustrated are you guys with me??

Denver

[Starsky309]

Denver,

You continue to want to explain/justify/rationalize YOUR WAY.

But your way hasn't WORKED. Go back and re-read your post about how many times you use the word "feel," as in "I feel _____ ." You are STILL making your overall strategy and individual tactics decisions based on your FEELINGS, and that's not a winning formula.

Are you doing better? I'm not so sure. I think intellectually you now know a ton more about all of this stuff than when you started, but as for your actions, you haven't really changed much. And even emotionally, these past 72-96 hours have been some of your toughest, by your own admission.

So again, I ask you . . . is your way working??? For YOU????


Starsky

[Denver_2010]

Denver,

You continue to want to explain/justify/rationalize YOUR WAY.

But your way hasn't WORKED. Go back and re-read your post about how many times you use the word "feel," as in "I feel _____ ." You are STILL making your overall strategy and individual tactics decisions based on your FEELINGS, and that's not a winning formula.

Are you doing better? I'm not so sure. I think intellectually you now know a ton more about all of this stuff than when you started, but as for your actions, you haven't really changed much. And even emotionally, these past 72-96 hours have been some of your toughest, by your own admission.

So again, I ask you . . . is your way working??? For YOU????


Starsky

The way that I was doing things up through July was not working for me. But I have adjusted. The only difference between what you guys are saying and what I'm doing is that I'm letting W initiate contact.

Am I wrong?

Last week, I flat out ignored a night of text messages from W.

Last weekend, I was successful in not allowing my W to bait me into R talk.

[Starsky309]

Even when you let HER initiate convos, and you keep them non-R-related, you have stated to us just this past week how much it sets you back.

Nearly everyone (not all) has suggested completely "dark" or at least "dim," for 30-90 days. A room is just as un-dark or un-dim regardless of which person turns on the light switch.


Starsky

[Starsky309]

Your convos (and text exchanges) are:

1. Bad for YOU in that they set you spiraling, emotionally (by your own admission), and they take you off your GAL gameplan.

2. Bad for HER in that you don't allow her to fully wear her BGPs, and to have a chance to MISS you, and to think she may be LOSING you.

So they don't work for you, or for her. But other than that, yeah, they're very useful.

[♪CS♪]

Denver,

All of these different fears are still rooted in the same deep fear. The fear of D. The fear of your M being over.

The individual fears you list I see as more excuses for not facing the real fear.

You fear that if you detach you will not love her anymore. This isn't the case at all. I'm sure you know this. Detaching does NOT mean to stop loving.

You fear she will see no contact as the 'old Denver.'. But if you tell her WHY. This isn't a reasonable fear.

As long as you continue to be motivated by this fear. As long as you continue to work from this dark place you are. This will hurt you and your chances much more than contact or no contact.

Do what you need to do to fix ^^^^ this first.

And THIS is what I see in the advice from Starsky and MHL. It is the best way for YOU to be able to address this situation with a clear mind, conviction and strength.

[Mach1]

Denver,

All of these different fears are still rooted in the same deep fear. The fear of D. The fear of your M being over.

The individual fears you list I see as more excuses for not facing the real fear.

You fear that if you detach you will not love her anymore. This isn't the case at all. I'm sure you know this. Detaching does NOT mean to stop loving.

You fear she will see no contact as the 'old Denver.'. But if you tell her WHY. This isn't a reasonable fear.

As long as you continue to be motivated by this fear. As long as you continue to work from this dark place you are. This will hurt you and your chances much more than contact or no contact.

Do what you need to do to fix ^^^^ this first.

And THIS is what I see in the advice from Starsky and MHL. It is the best way for YOU to be able to address this situation with a clear mind, conviction and strength.

Me thinks, that Country gets it....

: )

[MHL]

Now how frustrated are you guys with me??

I am booking a flight out there now to come smack some sense into you

Denver, you are saying it, you know it, and you are almost doing it.......

You want it to feel right too............sorry, doesn't work that way.

Well actually it does when you are really done.........

And that is where you are headed.......you will reach a point that you are just absolutely

tired of trying,
tired of being in pain,
tired of waiting,
tired of putting your life on hold

and then you will feel it but then what is the point then?????

That post I made to you the other day about when it clicked for me.........the first time I really DB'd, I could clearly see what it was that I needed to do.

Do you know what else.......I kinda of felt it also.

There is this thing called "Cognitive Behavioral Therapy"....

in a nutshell it is the concept that you can affect your feelings through your actions and thoughts.

If you are sad and you smile then you start to feel happy after awhile, it is the whole premise behing GAL.

Well, try what we are saying, you may find that the feeling you get may surprise you.

I get your fear of coming across like the old Denver.

That is the purpose of the statement telling her that it hurts and that is the reason for no casual contact.

The way that you communicate to her will let her know that it is coming from a place of LOVE and not retribution or anger.

Letting her experience the consequences of her decisions is the most "loving" thing you can do for her.

There is no doubt that everyone here loves their spouses.......we all need to learn to LOVE our spouses differently.

We have to LOVE them for their benefit not ours.

That is why you don't feel right about doing what we are suggesting.........

Your Love for your W is rooted in how YOU feel when you are LOVING her.

Where is Gritter when you need him?????

I hope some of this is making some sense.

Cheers

[MHL]

Me thinks, that Country gets it....

: )

ME TOO!!!!!

[♪CS♪]

What do I win!?!?