4evah'n'evah... awww maaan...

[~ kd ~]

Woody... like any addiction... detaching is a "lifelong" process...

~~~~~~~~~~~

Sent a couple texts to D13 and they bounced, so figured she is traveling now to her "event"...

Since I'm going "dim"... I figured I'd send a light text to my W this morning to ask if D13 was gone yet and to wish D13 luck for me if my W talks to her...

W sends email about an hour ago... said she just got back from camp... I have to laugh, because my W would have drove the RV back from camp and she is so not used to a big rig... she's probably a wreck... Then again, she's had a few opportunities to drive it this and last year, so maybe she's getting more comfortable...

So replied just now because W asked what number the kids should call me at... didn't expect them to call, but that would be great, so gave her the number, and said hope they all had fun at camp...

Simple, short, and light...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Why dim, KD?

For those who aren't playing along with the home game, the reason for dim...

I remain confident that I won't get on her roller coaster. I'm not even sure the ride is even operating any more.

No matter what happens, we have to communicate about the kids. So opening the communication lines may help to resolve any miscommunication around when the kids are available for me to visit with / have over...

I know that comm needs to be baby stepped. I don't want her to start thinking that I'm pursuing.

God knows... really... that I am not...

[~ kd ~]

Just found out that friends of mine are "trying to work things out", but bitter split...

I don't know if they were actually D.

They split almost two years ago. The best I can gather is he was the WAS with an A. Although knowing the couple, as "alpha" as he was, she wore the pants in the family. Three kids currently ranging from 14 to 19, I believe. Most recent comments from both of them in spring was that they never had a good M right from day 1.

They purchased our farm from us about 14 years ago and before she moved in (in '98), they practically gutted the house (40'x80) at her "requirement" and custom, architectural blueprints, and spent at least $250K additionally into it, including an attached, double garage. It was a decent house to begin with, the original addition being only 15yo when they bought.

Anyhow, he ended up buying her a new house and paying her out and I'm sure paying good money on support.

My BIL (my sister's H; this was supper conversation this evening) stated that this Feb., WAS was talking to my BIL at a local store. Said that LBS wife walked right by them without acknowledging them at all, whereas WAS' head did a complete 180 swivel as she walked by...

I just said from everything I've been reading on "the topic", it sounded pretty "classic" and I could probably guess exactly what was going on to get from that to where they are... lol

I'm happy for them and hope they work it out...

Just wanted to post that as another encouraging example of what can happen... even when things look their bleakest...

~~~~~~~~~~

BTW: It was my sister who actually lent me the DB book and I subsequently picked up DR. My BIL had an A about 15 years ago or so, maybe more (I don't think my sister was ever on this forum; if it was even up at that time).

Anyhow, while their M is still... up and down... they are still together and things seem more up, then down...

[KenF]

KD
when it comes to agreements, the financials, etc, there will always be areas of regret. should've gotten more, given less, etc.

for your own piece of mind, carefully consider how to minimize your future regrets. while your mind now says to walk away and take the loses, these may be bigger regrets in the future. likewise with what may seem trivial now.

custody, visitation, schedules are all very important. make notes of the other threads you've read, what others are struggling with, and add these to your agreement. rights of first refusal is big, do not miss that one.

do not sign anything while on her roller coaster.

your children's stability depends directly on your financial stability. protecting yourself protects your children. my x was always horrible with money and debt, so i needed to make sure i didn't give her more than necessary knowing i was the only financial adult in the room. this is the only way i could guarantee my daughter would be safe and always have a roof over her head.

[~ kd ~]

Thanks Ken,

Actually, had a talk with my W today about this.

Basically, what my W wants regarding the kids, she wants on paper. She wants the D of course, and so wants certain things filed accordingly. Of course it was obvious she was holding back some why she wants this, but her reasons were that she wants to change her name and move on with her life and it will all be so simple so long as we (I) agree... ah... the fog of a WAS...

What will happen at this point in time, if we do go in front of a judge, is that she will get full custody of the kids (care and control and the whole nine yards) plus she will get child support.

There is no other possible outcome due to my personal circumstances as well as current situation with kids living with my W. As my L informed me, the court rules with complete prejudice first, when it comes to the kids. Everything else is secondary.

My W informed me that her entire family and (support) friends figure I'm trying to scr3w her. They are so unclear on how my hands are so absolutely tied on this.

Having that knowledge, because she still wanted to invite my side of the family over for D8's b-day this coming Sunday, I asked her how that would work.

Long story short, as I was trying to explain how her and her family appear to have the advantage on the emotional side of this D (considering that they've known and accepted this for at least a year; whereas my side was still hoping for R as recently as this June), that it might be a little awkward... I explained to her that having me and my family in a room with a group of people who absolutely have no respect for me and think I'm trying to take advantage of my W... how would that NOT be awkward...

Yeah... I think she finally "got it"...

From our conversation, it is quite clear that she has some "perfect" vision of how this will all work. She has had minimal L consultation, still believes that this is a matter of a couple thousand $ at best, and that she gets everything she wants in exchange for a cash value...

As expected, she has had a lot of... "recommendations" and "concerns" offered by "friends" and family. She is aware that I could get spousal support, but seems to think that she can convince a judge to waive child support in lieu of spousal... ah... right... again, the fog of a WAS...

I have no room for regrets.... regrets are not an option...

Unfortunately, the situation as it is... she wants to file D and go in front of a magistrate and no matter what I agree on financially, I loose my kids...

So... I can only put my hands up and surrender completely and leave it all in the hands of God...

*sigh*... it's amazing that, with the right information, people can come up with some really interesting perspectives...

expect the worst, hope for the best...

[KenF]

sorry KD, the kids situation is tough. this is the worst part of my situation also. but you sound resigned to losing.

of course they all think you're trying to scr3w her, my x told everyone that too, that i was hiding money, etc. see chapter 8 sections 4 through 56 in the WAS handbook.

do not quit. if you dont like what your lawyer is telling you, find another. if your current financial situation will prevent you from getting the time you deserve, push off the D as long as you can and try to a better place financially. get creative, get mean, these are your children.

and yes, it is tough, and depressing and the outcome looks bleak. this is where you get tested. expect the worst, fight for the best. hope is passive and now is not the time for passive.

[~ kd ~]

You're right, Ken. I do sound resigned to losing. I can only guess what the courts will do, but regardless of whether I will keep this L or find a different one, the reality is my L speaks the truth. What she said corroborates against all other information and precedence I have found on the topic in my jurisdiction.

At this point, I really could care less if anyone thinks I'm out to scr3w my W. I mean really... I did, at least once...

Thankfully I'm more than enough detached to not let this get to me. As the WAS handbook might attest, I'm not sure if this scr3w comment was designed to have me once again believe that I AM the bad guy, here. I checked my temp, and although an honest part of me would entertain the idea of going hard in the courts for custody and an "overly equal" share of assets... the reality is, that is no where close to whom I am...

If anyone would want to suggest that my desired 50/50 custody and asset split is somehow wrong of me... I won't loose a wink of sleep, that's for sure... it's right for the kids...

I am rationalizing and justifying my belief here, and I'm OK with that. It will come out like I'm arguing semantics, and I am. There's an integral part of the semantics that really is a core of who I am and what I believe, historically and into the future.

If I've resigned myself to losing, then I'm playing a game of win / lose. If I lose or my W loses, then we've just enabled possible victim mentality between the two of us. The truth is, the only victims in all of this, the only losers, would be the kids.

So this is more than just shifting my thinking to win / win, it's actually conducting myself accordingly...

As it stands, everyone has lost out. That's from a historical perspective. From a CURRENT and FUTURE perspective, it is simply the starting index.

+ If I simply move on right now without a fight, the index remains unchanged. No win, but no (apparent) loss.

+ If we go to court right now, the index continues to be unchanged.

+ If I wait and do nothing, the index remains unchanged.

In any of the above, if I continue to work on myself and be the best and better father that I can be, then the index moves up. Everyone benefits. Working on myself REQUIRES moving myself forward from where I currently am physically, not just emotionally...

I COULD fight and everyone COULD win. The reality is, I do not want to be with my W. And at some future time, I can take the fight to a different hill.

As I drove home last night, I had a bit of a lightbulb moment... I really no longer fear the D. I no longer fear losing custody of the kids. For all intents and purposes, as a nuclear family, we have hit rock bottom. Moving forward can either have no effect or bring positive benefit. OK yes, things COULD get worse, but the change certainly wouldn't be significant.

So the question is, could I just keep working on myself and do nothing else? Because that would bring positive change.

Yes, I could do that. Do I need to learn anything more from patience? Perhaps. I could learn that "good things come to those who wait." The truth is, good things come to those who ACT, as well. I... have always been an actor...

Taking away labels of from my W of WAS or MLC, I'm not concerned as to where her future leads. I am not concerned about whether she will ever come out of her "fog". I am not concerned about whether there is even such a THING as "fog"... I do not want to be with this woman. Now, or in the future. No regrets. I make my choice and I move forward.

It's a funny thing, regrets... A lot of people talk about the financial regrets of a D. D or not, people make choices around money and have their ups and downs. They make money, they upsize, they lose money, they downsize. If they lose money, they talk about regrets. If they MAKE money, they don't talk about regrets... yet they will continue to make money and they will continue to lose money...

Regrets... are a choice...

Could I regret the marital situation I find myself in? Yes. Could I regret the familial situation my kids are in? Yes. Could I regret a D? Yes...

Could I regret waiting this long to make a choice? Yes...

Could I simply move forward and create a better future? Yes!

Will regrets benefit me? No.

It is not a D, it is not patience, it is not working on me, it is not trying to R, it is not moving to Africa that will prevent me from having the best possible R with my kids. It is ME and ONLY ME that will prevent that. And that will be prevented only if I live in fear of regret...

I was still stuck in my fear...

I have surrendered my fear...

I can only be the best father to the kids if I take care of me, so that I can take care of them. And that only comes from moving forward... NOW!

And if, in moving forward, I manage to get 50/50 custody of the kids sometime in the future... bonus... but only if, at that time, it would be beneficial to the kids... every bit of access to me AND my W will benefit the kids, now... and in the future... regardless of the actual split percentage...

Maximum gain? Yes, that's always the goal. But cost / benefit ratio needs to play a part. There is only a cost and not a benefit, if we stay where we are... if we do not finish this... in court, or otherwise...

At least... that's how I see it... now...

[KenF]

KD,
you're right, only time will tell on this one. the courts will decide what they decide. your job is to help them decide to do whats right for all. its sounds like your w is trying to convince them to do whats right for her and her anger.

i dont get a good read on what you've written. and thats ok.

but it strikes me as if you're not giving yourself enough credit:

"And if, in moving forward, I manage to get 50/50 custody of the kids sometime in the future... bonus... but only if, at that time, it would be beneficial to the kids.."

your time is equally beneficial to your kids as hers, of course it is, dont doubt yourself on this.

and i dont have an answer for you, i wish i did, but just want to prevent you from feeling what i have felt.

[~ kd ~]

I hear you, Ken.

For the most part, the post up above was a diatribe intended to help prepare me for the worst.

Yes, I do still agree that the most time a child can spend with both parents is the best for them. I hope my post above didn't come across that I thought my presence in my kids' lives wasn't important. I'm just thinking about how I can be the best father I can be, in the event of the worst scenario.

I had a conversation with an aunt today who said something that made complete sense to me.

Basically it was, the court will decide what it decides. My W won't be happy, no matter what the decision and will blame me. And that I should just stand aside and wait for the dust to settle and then just be the best I can in that situation.

I am taking everything that you've said in and when D day comes... I will be as prepared as I can be to show my best side and ask the courts to decide for the best possible outcome for the kids...

I'm just trying to prod my W along so we can just get this done and get it over with... I'm ready to deal with whatever the result may be...

hope that makes sense...

[bboom]

Kaffe,
Whatever happens, I'm pretty confident that you are going to be fine and you will do right by your kids. You strike me as a person who will not let despair and self pity dominate your thoughts since that is the easy thing to do. You have shown on here that you are someone who makes the hard choices to do what's right rather than take the easy path.

I'm pulling for you as I follow you down the same trail to a better future.

Godspeed.

[KenF]

OK KD, i understand it better now. venting, saying the words out loud, etc. and i took it literal, as if you've given up.

and i responded with me being overly sensitive to my own regrets based on your situation.

i have been at the point of just throwing my hands up and saying take what you want, leave me with what you dont and i'll deal with it later. and in some specifics i had done that, and these became the areas of regret. whether its because i feel i should have been stronger at the time, or because i gave up more than i should have, or now those are the areas of conflict.

so looking back its those times where i/you have to be stronger.


and your aunt is very wise. your w is setting her expectations very high, and will be disappointed and will blame you.