Feeling alone and frustrated with a 180.

[Truegritter]

Was I only doing so well because W was not there for me to fret over?

Maybe?

I am just passing by here Psych so haven't read your sitch but I assume some folks have talked about detachment with you?

It is a process. And it is hard work. But absolutely necessary.

You will be a worrying mess and you will appear that way to W.

Your goal here?

Get control of your emotions about all this. Which means detaching.

Nothing good is going to come for you or your M while you are worrying and full of fear.

How do you think you can do this?

[Psych77]

Thanx, A.C.

Last night everything went fine. W got home late with the kids, who were all thrilled to see me and wanted to tell me everything about the whole trip. W just went to bed early, as she was exhausted. No particularly great interactions, but no anger or resentment, and no particularly "cold" reception, either.

Of course, you are right - I need to accept that I will not do everything perfectly. IC always says I lack patience for change to happen, want everything better NOW.

Asperger's does contribute to the problem, but maybe not in the way that you think. We usually tend to be very black-and-white thinkers, expecting perfection and rejecting anything short of it. It takes a lot of effort to even imagine that someone else could accept us when we are short of what we feel we should be. Anger looks like rejection, and it is hard to think beyond the moment, to know that anger is just a passing feeling, and doesn't mean the "end."

Meditation - will need to set aside some time for that, but it's a good idea. So is writing down thoughts, once I can catch myself thinking them. But, of course, that is also some of what I do here. I have always said, I journal better on this list than anywhere else.

Thanks for your response. As always, best to you, too.

[Psych77]

Truegritter (can I just call you the Duke?)

Yeah, detaching is a process, and I have a difficult time with that. I've decided to detach, darn it! What's wrong with me? I've been trying for a few weeks already, how come I don't already have it down perfect

Right now, I am trying to GAL, which I hope will invest enough of me in something other than W that I will be able to weather little storms without falling apart.

[~¤DG¤~]

Psych-

Detaching is a process, a long one. I've been trying to do that for almost 6 months now. Some days are better than others but it will get easier.

Like you, I am also a very impatient person who wants things done this instant. This has been a very big 180 for me, to learn patience.
What they say is true, time is your friend.

Keep your chin up.

[Truegritter]

Truegritter (can I just call you the Duke?)

Call me whatever you want just don't call me late for dinner.

Most people call me Grit...

If I'm lucky.

Detaching? It is hard. You have been so enagaged with your W for so long if it didn't take some effort and time you got a bigger problem.

[aeolianchaos]

Asperger's does contribute to the problem, but maybe not in the way that you think. We usually tend to be very black-and-white thinkers, expecting perfection and rejecting anything short of it. It takes a lot of effort to even imagine that someone else could accept us when we are short of what we feel we should be. Anger looks like rejection, and it is hard to think beyond the moment, to know that anger is just a passing feeling, and doesn't mean the "end."

Thank you for sharing this with me. So you hold yourself to the same kinds of standards that you might hold for.. say.. a project.. and then when you don't get it right, or someone gets upset with you, you feel pretty intense emotions?

It is hard sometimes to think beyond the moment, especially when anger and fear are involved - its just not how our brains tend to work in those cases. We tend to get very reptilian and react quite a bit. I think this is something that we can train ourselves out of, but it takes work.

IC always says I lack patience for change to happen, want everything better NOW.

The thing is, change is happening. You want change to happen and be done with.. but it isn't like changing a tire. It's more like walking along a path. We are walking and moving closer to what we think we want to become, but by the time we get there, it will be something new anyways. If you can identify the little ways you've changed and appreciate those a bit along the way, you might find it easier to maintain some of that patience.

[Psych77]

So you hold yourself to the same kinds of standards that you might hold for.. say.. a project.. and then when you don't get it right, or someone gets upset with you, you feel pretty intense emotions?

You hit it RIGHT on the head! Emotions get very intense in general, and one of the characteristics of Aspergers is that we are usually ill equipped to integrate emotions into our experience and thought process. It's almost like an alien intrusion, in that we tend to be very analytical, and an emotion doesn't have a "numerical value" so as to fit into the "equation."

Mind, sometimes it is a very nice alien intrusion, and sometimes unpleasant (we still do FEEL the emotions). They are just intimidating because we do not directly control them; they just happen to us.

Much of your advice has a strong flavor of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (not a criticism, it is a very effective approach, and I often have trouble applying it to myself, so your advice is welcome), and your mention of the "reptilian" brain suggests some familiarity with neurology. Do you have a background in clinical psychology? Or are you just very good at this DB stuff?

Well, W came home the other night, thanked me for all the work I did while they were gone (not my first reason for doing it, but I must admit I had hoped she would appreciate it). I just and said I was happy I had all that uninterrupted time, allowing me to get so much more done. She went to bed early, exhausted from driving all day. The kids told me aaaaaaaaaaallllll about the trip (they were glad to see me)!

So, last night I approached W and said that I hadn't got to hear how the trip was for her, what with the kids filling my ear and her getting to bed early. I tried not only to listen, but to really enjoy listening, and asked her questions. Happily, I didn't feel stressed during the conversation, and we got to have a pleasant exchange - me not demanding or expecting anything, and her speaking freely. And she thanked me again for the work I did over the weekend. I said I had been excited to have all the extra time, and had planned to to extra work. Another baby step forward!

And later on, W approached me for sex . That makes about once per month, which is a lot better than it could be (and has been). It wasn't that it was a particularly "meaningful" or romantic encounter, but just the fact that she felt comfortable trusting me with a very intimate need, and was thinking about my needs, felt a lot like some progress. I just need to not read more into it. Just another "baby step" - doesn't mean everything is better, just means I found some things I need to keep doing.

After having sex, W thanked me again for the things I had done over the weekend. I started to say "It was nothing," and she said, "You COULD say 'You're welcome,' you know." It was dark, so she couldn't see me blush. I said it, and realized that I have always had trouble accepting complements and thanks. Something else to think about.

I really need to think about the ways that change IS happening, like you said. It really reveals another way that I need to change my focus from changing for HER to changing for ME. One of the reasons I fail to see change is because I am looking for results. I forget that those need to come after the change.

Always more stuff to work on, but it all seems to be falling into a sort of recognizable pattern, so it is not as overwhelming as it was when it all seemed like a bunch of random, unrelated changes I needed to make.

Gotta just keep on working on it.

Thanks for the input, A.C. You are awesome.

A.C. is cool

[aeolianchaos]

Do you have a background in clinical psychology? Or are you just very good at this DB stuff?

I think it is easier to have someone else speak to these thoughts than it is for us to do it to ourselves. Especially at first. We tend to accept our own thoughts at face value even though we wouldn't necessarily do so with another person saying it.

I don't consider myself so good w/ this DBing stuff. I'm trying, but it is challenging when after 2 months, my W seems to be still heading in exactly the same direction even if she says "I'm sorry" a lot.

And later on, W approached me for sex blush grin. That makes about once per month, which is a lot better than it could be (and has been).

Good for you, man! It's been about 6 months for me, and that wasn't so good anyways, so it would appear you are doing something right, here.

After having sex, W thanked me again for the things I had done over the weekend. I started to say "It was nothing," and she said, "You COULD say 'You're welcome,' you know." It was dark, so she couldn't see me blush. I said it, and realized that I have always had trouble accepting complements and thanks. Something else to think about.

I think this is a really good thing. She told you what she wanted - and you looked at it and considered that perhaps she has a valid request here, and then you looked a little deeper and recognized something in yourself that you could change.

What would it cost you to change this? Would you be happier? Would you feel any different about yourself?

I really need to think about the ways that change IS happening, like you said. It really reveals another way that I need to change my focus from changing for HER to changing for ME. One of the reasons I fail to see change is because I am looking for results. I forget that those need to come after the change.

I think you are really hitting the nail on the head, here. Changing for you is much more realistic than changing for her. We are all separate when it comes down to it, and the decision to change is ultimately always up to you.

[Psych77]

A.C.

I have been reading some of your thread (you really journal well). I have to say, I am sorry things are so tough on you.

I also have to say I admire you. If things had gotten that out of hand for me, I think I would be hard pressed to be upbeat and supportive for other people. I guess it's just that "reptilian brain" you talk about - when I am feeling hurt, it is hard for me to think about anyone else but me. Which, obviously, makes DBing a challenge for me. But I guess if it weren't a challenge, there would be nothing I needed to change, and DBing wouldn't be necessary, right?

I hope I am not a total downer bringing all this up. I guess you must be doing the DBing well, because you are obviously making changes for YOU, and they are obviously working - you are emotionally well enough to share with others, even when your W sounds like she has been pretty much shutting out the idea of reconciliation. It's a tough sitch in which to still grow healthy, but you seem to be doing it. My hat goes off to you.

Right now, I am doing some things right, and W and I are getting along. While the sex is nice, in all other ways we are just kind of getting along like relatively casual friends. Nothing deep is being shared, just the basic daily talk like you might do with an acquaintance at work. Little affection shown.

What am I doing right - if I don't know, how can I keep doing it, right? Well, I have not been ALL OVER W for affection - give a peck on the cheek when I get home (yesterday she gave me a hug) and move on to dinner and talk. I really miss grossing the kids out by kissing on the lips in front of them (always gave me a laugh), but we are not there right now. I am showing some interest in what W is doing - enough to ask questions - but not intrusive. I had a couple of episodes last week when some provocative situations came up and I avoided getting into an argument. I have been minding my own life.

Is that all there is? I don't imagine so. I'm hoping we will begin to come together more, and as we do, I suppose some other issues, ones that came up when we were more connected, will re-emerge. Well, I guess I'll have to cross those bridges when I come to them. Just focus on what I have to work on right now. Be the best father and husband I can be, all while being a man in my own right, separate from all that.

I guess I am a little nervous because the changes I have made seem so little, and I am afraid I am forgetting something else that I need to keep up. Maybe I need to review the book, again. It was very helpful the first time, and I am sure that, as time goes on, the techniques need to be applied and reapplied - finding solutions as new problems come up, so they don't become opportunities to become conflictual again.

I guess I just worry when things seem like they are coming too easily. Well, I guess the challenges will come on their own - I don't need to look for them.

[aeolianchaos]

I guess it's just that "reptilian brain" you talk about - when I am feeling hurt, it is hard for me to think about anyone else but me. Which, obviously, makes DBing a challenge for me. But I guess if it weren't a challenge, there would be nothing I needed to change, and DBing wouldn't be necessary, right?

I think I got most of my 'bad behavior' out of my system before I found this place. When I found out about the affair the stuff that came out of my mouth would have made a pirate blush. I was very angry and said very very hurtful things - even a month later I was still fantasizing about beating the cr@p out of the OM. Deciding not to hate that guy was like tearing my ego in half - I felt sick coming to that conclusion, but its the one that I'm going with.

I think its entirely normal to have those challenges when you feel hurt. I think that most people experience the same thing, unless they have a fear of even expressing that hurt or anger. It is a challenge - one we aspire to meet - to be able to get beyond that kind of experience and be vulnerable in a way that opens us up rather than shuts us down.

The thing is - and I'm sure others have found this - helping others is in some ways like GAL. It really does make me feel better if I can be supportive or just share in someone else's experience. Just knowing that we are not going through this alone has so much value - when we can speak to someone else's suffering - maybe we indirectly speak to a part of our own.

I had a couple of episodes last week when some provocative situations came up and I avoided getting into an argument. I have been minding my own life.

How did you feel about yourself afterwards? Did you like yourself better as a result? I am happy that you were able to do that - the ability to defuse a potential blowup is a really really reaally good skill to have - and it sounds like you have it.

I guess I am a little nervous because the changes I have made seem so little, and I am afraid I am forgetting something else that I need to keep up. Maybe I need to review the book, again. It was very helpful the first time, and I am sure that, as time goes on, the techniques need to be applied and reapplied - finding solutions as new problems come up, so they don't become opportunities to become conflictual again.

You are probably right that re-reading the book might be useful. You've had some time to apply what you got from the first go-round, you've had the opportunity to take a look at how your W responded to things, you've had time to reflect on what worked for you - what went well, what took some reviewing and revision. You would be coming to the book with a different pair of eyes now, and would be able to notice certain subtleties that might not have been so apparent the first time around.

The book is full of interesting and good ideas. Do you feel like you have more clarity about what your goals are? What to you, seems like the first sign that things are changing? If you do, it could be helpful to reflect on those things and figure out what 'worked' to bring those changes about.

If you don't - it might be a good exercise to think about that - what it would look like if things were changing and what might help to lead to that point.