[quote=westcoastfella]As to her symptoms, I was always very supportive and kind when these things happened. Our sex life was pretty abysmal for years I don't think that I'm co-dependent on her. I think that I put too much emphasis on her and our R for my happiness, This ^^^ IS co-dependent behavior.
which I'm working on, but I don't feel driven to be her "caretaker" or anything. I did grow up in an alcoholic household, Me too. And it does affect us. Read up on Adult Children of Alcoholics sometime. I found it helpful when I was about your age. Went to a few meetings and
saw some adults still wallowing in their childhood pain BUT
i also saw a few reactions of MINE that stemmed from childhood and having a rageaholic dad...so i did work on those with a great T...
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I think you're right, 25. That sentence that I wrote seemed kind of contradictory... I'm really trying to work on doing my own thing and finding other avenues of both happiness and self-esteem. I still obsess about my W in many ways -- I pray about the matter a lot, I write a lot, I visit the DB forums many times during the day, and I do a lot of web research in my spare time. I'm trying to work in other things -- focusing on work, exercise, my fiction writing, catching up on old TV shows, and generally taking care of business. But I feel like there's more I could do.
I will do as you say and look up info on adult children of alcoholics. Is there a specific book or just looking through websites in general? I have no doubt that growing up in my household really messed me up in various ways. I was not a normal child or teenager by any means, and it was only after I met my W that I worked through a lot of those issues in a positive way. Perhaps that's why I feel so dependent on her -- she helped me get out of some really bad behaviors and thought patterns.
In addition, I grew up feeling very cold and detached from others. No intimacy with anyone whatsoever, not a whole lot of love; I lived in many ways in my own private world. My W was the first person that I opened up to, and when I did, I opened up entirely. I still don't share an intimate connection with anyone else on that level. I'm more intimate with my family and friends as a result, but still, nothing has come close to her. On the same token, I don't think that my W has shared that kind of connection with anyone else, either. When the A first started going on (she had only shared a kiss with OM at the time), she told me that I was the only one who knew the "real her"....
The ACOA (adult child of alcoholics) book is called just that and there are others.
2 concepts that hit me and still do, are:
1) we did not know what "normal" looks like, which matters. One of my brothers told me he didn't think he and his wife should fight much "at all" b/c "normal people don't have conflicts like this"...which I knew was incorrect.
As ACOA's, we imagine that there are NO problems in the "normal" families
and that everything is smooth sailing...OR TERRIBLE, with not much in between... Our conflict resolution skills tend to be "attack & retreat"...and somehow hope a problem is fixed with that...and then doing it over & over for years, blaming the other one for it.
2) though we had role models of what "NOT TO DO", we will revert to those very behaviors
IF we do not replace those negatives, with positive "HOW TO DO RIGHT" methods.
For instance---
H's bf is a wonderful husband and father. A true role model for h and others, including bf's kids.
But HIS father was a lousy dad. HIS father (BF's) was married 3 times, cheated on the first two wives, got OW pregnant,
and when his 3rd wife left him
(b/c he forgot to learn anything from his disastrous failures in marriage, like how to be a good partner even when HE was "in love")
he took his own life on Thanksgiving a decade ago.
after draining those around him for a year, with all his loneliness and rage...never seemed to look inside. I guess he was too afraid to look within b/c of his shame and fear.
Though BF loved his dad, he always knew what NOT to do and who NOT to be like.
But he did not know who TO BE LIKE...
Fortunately,
bf had a great FIL as a role model for HOW TO do it right. So when crisis came (as his father's suicide surely was)
BF had the tools his fil had shown him.
I say all this b/c
WE can break the cycle. BF did and he had a terrible role model.
I broke the cycle. With work.
At a personal growth workshop I attended long ago, I talked about my family of origin and then
the family h and I were creating. Someone asked me
"Are you able to celebrate what YOU have created,
that is so different from what you grew up with?"
I LOVE THAT QUESTION...and the answer is,
YES, I am.
You can too. Figure out who the positive role models are, or will be, AND keep your eyes peeled for them down the road.
You can certainly have more than one and for different things, like a work role model and a father, husband, etc.
Then celebrate how your new life is better than what you grew up with.
I find this a better focus than looking at the past and mourning the deficits.
But yes,
noting the deficits is needed to some extent,
to recall or note where we weren't exposed to enough healthy working marriages
and we need that. And healthy marriages ARE, imo, by definition,
works in progress.
We can never say "we are THERE now, no more work to be done"...
but the "work" isn't exactly digging ditches work.
There are times it's the hardest thing you'll ever do, as YOU KNOW...but
when it works, it is so worth it.
Marriage, like dating,
is something you only have to get right with ONE PERSON
to make it all worth it.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I agree, thanks for the insights. I know that my own father, as well-meaning as he is, is highly emotional and is very, very needy in terms of relationships. Especially with me, as I basically had to help take care of him during one of the hardest times of his life (bankruptcy, post-divorce, etc.) I have found that I have repeated many of these behaviors with my W. I may not be drinking myself into a stupor, but I did make my W out to be the axis of my world, and I think that she resented that after a long enough time, even if she didn't fully realize it.
I too believe that M's are works-in-progress. I have always felt so... If my W chooses to come back and rebuild our M, then I will do that with her. There will always be ups and downs in the M -- this could just be a very severe down after all is said and done. We will see. Just have to give things time.
Big update tonight. My W called me to talk about the separation paperwork (or did she? I will explain). She then asked what I "wanted to do" about the D stuff. I replied that I didn't really know where to begin with it and that I would ask someone at the court how to proceed. I was thinking, "oh, great, she's still pushing forward with the D." Then she said, "I think we should really talk about the idea of us getting back together." I thought, "huh?"
When I asked her what she meant, she said that she didn't see us working out because she was in love with OM but that there were a lot of great things about our R that she is having trouble "letting go of." I told her, "Look, why don't we just be separated for a while, see how that feels, and go from there?" She agreed with that. I couldn't help but think that she sounded relieved.
I see this as a HUGE step of progress. A few weeks ago, she was going on about how quickly she wanted to D me, and she's outright telling me that she's having doubts. Giving her space and time to think is clearly making a positive effect. I'm glad that I decided on that route very early on rather than later…
No, I appreciate the reality check, Gritter. I NEED to know what to expect. Somehow, I just knew after hearing those words from her that I could very well hear something different a week later, then something else the week after. As much as I'd like to think her A recovery will be linear, I know that people compare A's to rollercoasters for a reason… Detachment is good. Yes. That's what I need to embrace. I have no doubt that the ride will be as wild as it's been already…
Yes, actually, I just logged on in order to do so! Guess my detachment plans kicked in sooner than I thought.
It's been pretty tough the last few weeks because I know that OM moved in with my W on the 13th. I was able to keep my cool in the weeks before because I knew that they were only talking on the phone, but now I get a lot of intrusive thoughts about what they're doing over there. Of course, I let them go, but it's still really tough. It makes it easier to know that she's a woman possessed by the fog rather than thinking rationally -- the "real" her would never do anything like this to us. I've been with her for long enough to know that to be true.
I wanted to update because I read an incredible book by Dean Delis called "The Passion Trap." It's wonderfully insightful about relationship dynamics, and it often explains why Michele's DB tactics work. The bottom line of the book is: When one person becomes more emotionally dependent on the relationship, the other person tends to withdraw from it. Delis found this to be the primary problem in all of the people who came to his practice for marriage counselling.
To be honest, I think it explains why my M went south after a couple of years. I reviewed the chapter on common happenings when the "passion trap" is set into motion and found myself laughing -- everything he said that the withdrawing partner, or "one-up," does when the relationship is out of balance, my W did the EXACT SAME THINGS. I automatically assumed that her distance and dissatisfaction were all my fault, but now I'm starting to think that our relationship was "out of balance." I became totally emotionally dependent on our relationship for all my needs and became something of a yes-man, afraid to rock the boat. In turn, she received all the power in the M and in turn became resentful of me, though she could never really pinpoint why. Delis actually explains that A's are typical for one-ups, so that may have been the cause after all (or at least a lot of it). So me withdrawing and not begging her for closeness are some of the best antidotes to this thorny problem.
As for detaching, that is my primary goal right now. It's tough because I miss her very much and feel very drawn to her, but it's honestly the best thing I can do, especially for myself. I can't live life on my end acting as though she's the only thing that matters, especially if she's gone right now. I have to depend on other things in my life to make me happy, including myself. That's really my main goal right now: to just be happy.
